Something I noticed about the protection...

That's worth a mention. There were/are times when the protection wasn't as bad as it seemed. Most specifically, Russell's natural inclination to escape, as opposed to slide up in the pocket.

For example, 1:28-1:35. If he just slid up in the pocket, the protection would have been great. Guys winning their blocks 1 vs 1. But a little outside pressure and Wilson looks to escape, giving the appearance of bad protection when really the guy wouldn't have been a problem.

[youtube]rU4h1zFfXy4[/youtube]

So in short, while the line definitely needs to improve, wilson's game doesn't make it any easier.

Russ needs to make quicker decisions. Perhaps later in the season he'll get another second but not right now.

Someone said in another thread that it's a "two headed monster," and it absolutely is. This line is absolutely horrific both in the passing and running game, but RW's reluctance to get the ball out just magnifies it much more. It's killing our offense.

That's happy feet. That's exactly what a lot of people were worried he would start doing a couple years ago becuase the oline was so bad. It's a natural reaciton to repeatedly getting bum rushed when the oline has total failure. Now he's developing happy feet because of years of shit for oline.

When he steps up good things happen more often than not.But he seems more comfortable getting outside the pocket and Im ok with that,

I dont think RW will ever be the type of QB to run a smooth running machine in the Bill Walsh mold but he wins his way and I love watching the guy.

He still needs the Oline to run block better and the whole team including RW needs to get better at recognizing the D and picking up the blitzs.

I can't fathom how some people fault Russ for running in this case, or say he has developed 'happy feet,' for lack of a definitive answer. So easy and neat just to plug in our favorite cliché.

1. He was sacked 6 times and escaped another 5-6 sacks. How much running did he do during the TD pass to Baldwin?

2. "THERE WERE TIMES WHEN he had good protection?" Well, sunshine shines on a dog's azz every now and then. He might rely on the OL when and if pass pro has some semblance of consistency. "There were times when" is not good enough. I would rather he run than take 10-12 sacks, or 'climb the pocket,' limiting the view from his short stature. Again, he showed remarkable willingness to stay put at times, considering the piss-poor pass pro. Did I mention the TD pass to DB? Oh yeah, sorry I did, but it bears repeating.

3. Good grief, how about focusing on where the problem is. Pass pro and run blocking are fleeting-to-non-existent right now. I see finger pointing at the QB and a TE for our pass pro woes. How about putting this squarely on the shoulders of whom it belongs?

justafan":37mv53w4 said:

When he steps up good things happen more often than not.But he seems more comfortable getting outside the pocket and Im ok with that,

I dont think RW will ever be the type of QB to run a smooth running machine in the Bill Walsh mold but he wins his way and I love watching the guy.

He still needs the Oline to run block better and the whole team including RW needs to get better at recognizing the D and picking up the blitzs.

Click to expand...

Probably one of the more sensible posts in this thread. I agree that he still needs some work at recognizing D's. He's right on track if not ahead of the game considering his tenure in the league, but still has a ways to go. It shows up from time to time because the rook center has to lean on him for many of the calls/adjustments. This experience will only help him.

I think its a little unfair to judge Wilson's tendency to not climb the pocket when 1 in 10 snaps the line does its job. I don't blame him for being a little slow to register what is going on in front of him. He's conditioned to expect the exact opposite to happen. He does need to get the ball out a little quicker and trust what he sees when the line does hold up, I just think its a lot harder than many people realize.

Bottom line 80% of the problem isn't Russ, Graham and I hate to say it Bevell but its the offensive line. On the bright side a lot of the problems seem less about talent and more about communication and assignments. Its somewhat fixable.

HawKnPeppa":2d6226no said:

I can't fathom how some people fault Russ for running in this case, or say he has developed 'happy feet,' for lack of a definitive answer. So easy and neat just to plug in our favorite cliché.

Click to expand...

Except nobody is really faulting Wilson. And I wouldn't call it happy feet, instead its closer to seeing ghosts. Again can't fault him, but its something we really need to nip before it becomes a huge problem.

HawKnPeppa":2d6226no said:

1. How much running did he do during the TD pass to Baldwin?

Click to expand...

Not sure what the point of this comment is. There was good/sufficient pass pro on that play.

HawKnPeppa":2d6226no said:

2. "THERE WERE TIMES WHEN he had good protection?" Well, sunshine shines on a dog's azz every now and then. He might rely on the OL when and if pass pro has some semblance of consistency. "There were times when" is not good enough. I would rather he run than take 10-12 sacks, or 'climb the pocket,' limiting the view from his short stature. Again, he showed remarkable willingness to stay put at times, considering the piss-poor pass pro. Did I mention the TD pass to DB? Oh yeah, sorry I did, but it bears repeating.

Click to expand...

Lol, still not sure what your point is on the Doug Baldwin TD bit. There was good pass pro on that play.

HawKnPeppa":2d6226no said:

3. Good grief, how about focusing on where the problem is. Pass pro and run blocking are fleeting-to-non-existent right now. I see finger pointing at the QB and a TE for our pass pro woes. How about putting this squarely on the shoulders of whom it belongs?

Click to expand...

What part of 'while our line definitely needs to improve' do you not understand?

And I'm not sure you have followed what I have said. The protection is bad. But because its bad, and Wilson not taking any chances, it looks worse.

Another example of fairly good pass pro, until Wilson decides to run into the pressure, and eventually outrun it. Again, not faulting Wilson, but it doesn't change the fact. Pass pro wasn't as disastrous as it appeared.

[youtube]1NWA9CTJYKw[/youtube]

akscoundrel":ytkfxo9l said:

HawKnPeppa":ytkfxo9l said:

I can't fathom how some people fault Russ for running in this case, or say he has developed 'happy feet,' for lack of a definitive answer. So easy and neat just to plug in our favorite cliché.

Click to expand...

Except nobody is really faulting Wilson. And I wouldn't call it happy feet, instead its closer to seeing ghosts. Again can't fault him, but its something we really need to nip before it becomes a huge problem.

HawKnPeppa":ytkfxo9l said:

1. How much running did he do during the TD pass to Baldwin?

Click to expand...

Not sure what the point of this comment is. There was good/sufficient pass pro on that play.

HawKnPeppa":ytkfxo9l said:

2. "THERE WERE TIMES WHEN he had good protection?" Well, sunshine shines on a dog's azz every now and then. He might rely on the OL when and if pass pro has some semblance of consistency. "There were times when" is not good enough. I would rather he run than take 10-12 sacks, or 'climb the pocket,' limiting the view from his short stature. Again, he showed remarkable willingness to stay put at times, considering the piss-poor pass pro. Did I mention the TD pass to DB? Oh yeah, sorry I did, but it bears repeating.

Click to expand...

Lol, still not sure what your point is on the Doug Baldwin TD bit. There was good pass pro on that play.

HawKnPeppa":ytkfxo9l said:

3. Good grief, how about focusing on where the problem is. Pass pro and run blocking are fleeting-to-non-existent right now. I see finger pointing at the QB and a TE for our pass pro woes. How about putting this squarely on the shoulders of whom it belongs?

Click to expand...

What part of 'while our line definitely needs to improve' do you not understand?

And I'm not sure you have followed what I have said. The protection is bad. But because its bad, and Wilson not taking any chances, it looks worse.

Another example of fairly good pass pro, until Wilson decides to run into the pressure, and eventually outrun it. Again, not faulting Wilson, but it doesn't change the fact. Pass pro wasn't as disastrous as it appeared.

[youtube]1NWA9CTJYKw[/youtube]

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Hate to bust your bubble but you said something negative about Mr Wilson ! That is a HUGE no no in these parts :sarcasm_on:

I've said this before, but I'm starting to believe that Wilson can't see the field well in the pocket. In NO the linemen are taught to pass block in a certain manner to open up lanes for Drew Brees. If you ever watch Brees he has huge gaps in the pocket that he is able to see through, it also helps that he gets has a very quick release. I do believe there are ways to scheme around Wilson's height. I do believe it would be advantageous to get him going on rollouts, and bootlegs more often.

Spin Doctor":295827x2 said:

I've said this before, but I'm starting to believe that Wilson can't see the field well in the pocket. In NO the linemen are taught to pass block in a certain manner to open up lanes for Drew Brees. If you ever watch Brees he has huge gaps in the pocket that he is able to see through, it also helps that he gets has a very quick release. I do believe there are ways to scheme around Wilson's height. I do believe it would be advantageous to get him going on rollouts, and bootlegs more often.

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Does it go against the 'can't see' idea at all that he has a 75%+ completion from inside pocket? Is there a clear way to show the can't see idea as any bigger issue than guys a couple inches taller?

RW is guilty of not seizing opportunity as much as he could. That's essentially what the criticisms boils down to. HeS efficient, he has a unique skill set but he's not the best. And we can live with that, right?

I think the reason Wilson doesn't like to step up in the pocket is because
then we won't be able to run back-ward and do his whirl & twirl thing.
Knowing no-one is behind you makes it easy for Wilson to keep running
backward until he sees an open receiver.

akscoundrel":2mqq18p2 said:

That's worth a mention. There were/are times when the protection wasn't as bad as it seemed. Most specifically, Russell's natural inclination to escape, as opposed to slide up in the pocket.

For example, 1:28-1:35. If he just slid up in the pocket, the protection would have been great. Guys winning their blocks 1 vs 1. But a little outside pressure and Wilson looks to escape, giving the appearance of bad protection when really the guy wouldn't have been a problem.

[youtube]rU4h1zFfXy4[/youtube]

So in short, while the line definitely needs to improve, wilson's game doesn't make it any easier.

Click to expand...

The problem is that there is a big inconsistency in there even being a pocket for Wilson to even step into.
I have watched the pocket collapse, right at the 1 Second mark, and it's that kind of inconsistency that probably doesn't give RW the secure feeling about moving up.
ALSO, within the first couple Seconds, Wilson is probably trying to make the play as called, and then?, instant pressure from a collapsed pocket, forces him to try and become a moving target, get rid of the ball, or make an instant decision to try'n take off.
Wilson's methods won't work for the majority of the Quarterbacks in the League, but at a 100.5 QBR? who can argue that his decision making on the fly isn't what's keeping him at the top of the QB heap.
It's easy to speculate from the bleachers, or from the comfort of a sofa, but in real time, and under fire, it probably looks a whole bunch different out there on the battle field.

I think it's rather amazing that he even bothers to "just step up" in the pocket or settle in. The pockets are rare, so there's a good chance he'll misread them. It's called conditioning and this offense is training Wilson to bail.

You want him to grow as a passer, give him a bit better protection. The protection doesn't have to be perfect, just somewhat consistent. When the team can do this, I'll pay more attention to the perceived height issue. Otherwise it's just another less important or unproven view.

If you guys watched the Husky game last night, the announcers talked about this. By the 4th quarter USC's QB Kessler was so rattled he ran out of the pocket even when the pocket wasn't collapsing.

That's what's happening with Russell, he's so afraid of getting trapped or sacked in the pocket because of how terrible the line is, he's running out even when the protection is OK now. His internal oh shit clock is going off.

His fault? Idk, I'm sure he's seeing the film. But no, when a line gives a QB time on a consistent basis, that's when you see really good QB play from the pocket. When the line stinks and the QB gets sacked six times a game? Well.........you get Russell.

Let's not kid ourselves, speaking for the last game, the pass protection and run blocking wasn't very good.

However there are times I think Russell could have hit a target had he released the ball sooner, maybe something he still needs to work on.

It would definitely help to get some consistent week in and week out play from the Offensive line though.

Seafan":23hfljwy said:

Russ needs to make quicker decisions. Perhaps later in the season he'll get another second but not right now.

Click to expand...

This is my major gripe I have with Bevell. Too often Bevell is calling plays that take too long to develop. Honestly, I believe our pass protection is getting better and has allowed, at times, better protection than all of last year. The problem this year is that it is very inconsistent. I think Wilson is trying to stay in the pocket more this year and I think it is warranted. Really, if the mistakes are cleared up I think our o-line will be shockingly good later on in the season. But this is me just trying to be an optimist....

sekiuHAWK":1totjhe3 said:

Seafan":1totjhe3 said:

Russ needs to make quicker decisions. Perhaps later in the season he'll get another second but not right now.

Click to expand...

This is my major gripe I have with Bevell. Too often Bevell is calling plays that take too long to develop. Honestly, I believe our pass protection is getting better and has allowed, at times, better protection than all of last year. The problem this year is that it is very inconsistent. I think Wilson is trying to stay in the pocket more this year and I think it is warranted. Really, if the mistakes are cleared up I think our o-line will be shockingly good later on in the season. But this is me just trying to be an optimist....

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You're the first person I've seen say this, 100% of the Bevell haters hate him because ALL he calls are bubble screens and short predictable passing plays.

btw, the reason you're seeing more downfield plays being called is because we're constantly in 2nd and 3rd and long.