SeahawksFanForever
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Saw this on Twitter:
"If you average PFF OL grades, SEA worst as a team. 12% worse than #31 team".
"If you average PFF OL grades, SEA worst as a team. 12% worse than #31 team".
OL issues (Poll)
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RussWILSON3
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Did you really vote for Tom Cable as being the problem? LOL explain?
Everyone.
1. It was a top down decision to walk the path of minimizing the cap hit taken by the OL. I said it last night and I'll say it again because it bears repeating: Every roster move made with OL confirms that it is by design to let OL talent walk. None of the players who come up on contract are good enough to hold on to but are too valuable to other teams to resign ourselves. There is never going to be consistency at the position until they pay for it.
2. It puts the onus on competency in the draft and it's barely debatable if it's 'working'. I don't think it is working but I really believe they've made half hearted attempts and now the organization is trying to prove it's philosophy is valid (or they're buying time till next year to rectify it in some way).
It's a calculated risk which I can understand the premise, but the execution is so lacking.
1. It was a top down decision to walk the path of minimizing the cap hit taken by the OL. I said it last night and I'll say it again because it bears repeating: Every roster move made with OL confirms that it is by design to let OL talent walk. None of the players who come up on contract are good enough to hold on to but are too valuable to other teams to resign ourselves. There is never going to be consistency at the position until they pay for it.
2. It puts the onus on competency in the draft and it's barely debatable if it's 'working'. I don't think it is working but I really believe they've made half hearted attempts and now the organization is trying to prove it's philosophy is valid (or they're buying time till next year to rectify it in some way).
It's a calculated risk which I can understand the premise, but the execution is so lacking.
AbsolutNET
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RussWILSON3":3po49rvj said:
If he really did tell Pete and John he'd rather have DL and big TE's that hadn't developed bad habits in college spread offenses, then he's a valid option. Is he really telling his bosses he can't undo some bad habits of a 22 year old? The guy is supposed to be one of the best in the biz, but he can't overcome a spread offense? This mess is on him as much as anyone for bringing in guys that play defense to play OL in the NFL.
seahawk12thman
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AbsolutNET":3epmhhe6 said:
People can bitch all they want, but our oline is improving. Wilson has time to throw and the run blocking is better including Jimmy Graham.
AbsolutNET":18ebvpff said:
Sorry, i don't buy into this college spread excuse. Why is every other team able to salvage college O-Line players? We're dead last or near last in O-Line rankings for almost every category. This is absurd.
hawkfan68
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RussWILSON3":1v09dh9w said:
Simple. Tom Cable is the Assistant Head Coach(AHC) and responsible for the OL. As an AHC, he has input on who to keep, draft, from an OL and maybe an overall offense perspective. He also has input with gameplans etc. Basically PC has given him the authority to provide input to these decisions. Tom Cable is very much the part of the problem with how the OL is functioning. The question should be how is Tom Cable absolved from responsibility with an underperforming OL?
Largent80
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ALL of them
Recon_Hawk
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The salary cap and by extension, JS and PC's choice on where to invest their cap money.
@DavisHsuSeattle If you average PFF OL grades, SEA worst as a team. 12% worse than #31 team. Ugh.
@DavisHsuSeattle 2h2 hours ago
Cable is just like every other position coach in the NFL- he wants his front office to spend their high picks on his position group-
@DavisHsuSeattle 2h2 hours ago
.@AZRoushStang Cable messed up the 3 high picks- then again- SEA has not invested enough High Picks & $$ IMO
@DavisHsuSeattle 2h2 hours ago
racking my brain to think of every OL that got a 2nd contract with PCJS- can only think of 3: Breno, Paul McQ and Max Unger- all gone.
I think the OL issues is with the talent themselves. Have any of you ever had a home built without a foundation? I haven't, but I assume it wouldn't go too well personally. Every team is going to have weaknesses. if you guys had the Dallas OL, with Lynch Wilson and Graham I'm sure the offense would be unstoppable but then the issue would be with the defense. The real thing is the salary cap. It's built to defeat good teams in the long run. Unless your the Patriots.
@DavisHsuSeattle 2h2 hours ago
Cable is just like every other position coach in the NFL- he wants his front office to spend their high picks on his position group-
@DavisHsuSeattle 2h2 hours ago
.@AZRoushStang Cable messed up the 3 high picks- then again- SEA has not invested enough High Picks & $$ IMO
@DavisHsuSeattle 2h2 hours ago
racking my brain to think of every OL that got a 2nd contract with PCJS- can only think of 3: Breno, Paul McQ and Max Unger- all gone.
I think the OL issues is with the talent themselves. Have any of you ever had a home built without a foundation? I haven't, but I assume it wouldn't go too well personally. Every team is going to have weaknesses. if you guys had the Dallas OL, with Lynch Wilson and Graham I'm sure the offense would be unstoppable but then the issue would be with the defense. The real thing is the salary cap. It's built to defeat good teams in the long run. Unless your the Patriots.
seahawk12thman
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Crizilla":3tg42qem said:
Breno and Carpenter.......
ukeface:
DavidSeven
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Per Football Outsiders, Jets are #1 in pass protection. Seahawks are dead last.
Regardless of what you think of Breno or Carpenter, there is an argument to be made for continuity and experience over raw athleticism and "Table Cable grit." And if these guys are playing better on different teams, what does that say about our own coaching/evaluation?
I'm not putting this at any specific person's feet, but relying entirely on untested starters and 4th round picks to fill significant OL gaps was a roll of the dice that came up snake eyes. This is both a roster management (PC/JS) and talent evaluation (Cable) problem. The team had every opportunity to address some of it via free agency and/or retaining its own players. There have also been significant missed opportunities in the draft.
I am of the (unpopular) opinion that, when healthy, a line featuring Breno, Sweezy, Unger, Carp and Okung wasn't that bad at all. They got hurt a lot, but at least you could expect them to play well when healthy. Now, we have a line that, even when 100% healthy, is probably the worst in the league. That's unacceptable.
Regardless of what you think of Breno or Carpenter, there is an argument to be made for continuity and experience over raw athleticism and "Table Cable grit." And if these guys are playing better on different teams, what does that say about our own coaching/evaluation?
I'm not putting this at any specific person's feet, but relying entirely on untested starters and 4th round picks to fill significant OL gaps was a roll of the dice that came up snake eyes. This is both a roster management (PC/JS) and talent evaluation (Cable) problem. The team had every opportunity to address some of it via free agency and/or retaining its own players. There have also been significant missed opportunities in the draft.
I am of the (unpopular) opinion that, when healthy, a line featuring Breno, Sweezy, Unger, Carp and Okung wasn't that bad at all. They got hurt a lot, but at least you could expect them to play well when healthy. Now, we have a line that, even when 100% healthy, is probably the worst in the league. That's unacceptable.
OP
OP
SeahawksFanForever
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DavidSeven":lyw6a3et said:
And don't forget Carp's comments when he said he likes Jets oline scheme much better.
If we want to make an argument that Brady & Rodgers getting rid of the ball quickly helps their oline, then how about the Jets? Ryan Fitzpatrick is their QB. Ivory is running the ball like Beast mode and Fitzpatrick is managing the games just fine.
Steve Marshall is their O-line coach. Not going to lie, I have no clue who that guy is.
Recon_Hawk
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SeahawksFanForever":285banvg said:
Fitzpatrick has 7 interceptions in 5 games compared to Russell's 3 interceptions in 6 games. Furthermore, Fitzpatrick is completing just 62% of his passes with a better wr group than Seattle's whereas Russell's completing 69%.
More a theory than anything, but that's what I see happening in NY. Fitz takes a lot more risks with his throws, so the O-line will look better statistically, but his individual stats will look worse.
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SeahawksFanForever
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Recon_Hawk":19b3v21b said:
Sure, I get that but isn't it weird that we are not winning games this year despite of winning the turnover battle? Not that I want Wilson to start throwing INTs (haha) but that is so bizarre. According to most press conferences, Pete is also confused by this and trying to figure it out.
SeahawksFanForever":2g6tdvcm said:
Although the Jets include some zone blocking, Carpenter is referring to what the Jets have called gap blocking. It suits Carpenter much better. It also fits an active and physical street fighter like Breno as well. Both have thrived under a different wrinkle in New York.
Meanwhile, in Seattle, Tom Cable is looking increasingly vulnerable. He may have taken on to big of a teaching task for one year. November is closing in and better results are due. And, as Bailey pointed out just last week, there are 31 other places available.
Recon_Hawk
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SeahawksFanForever":30abnsnt said:
I don't have the supporting numbers, but I bet that 4th quarter success (or failure) has a similar outcome to winning (or losing) games as winning (or losing) the turnover battles does. If that makes sense lol.
So what's happening is that the indicators of winning (turnover battle) and losing (terrible 4th quarter play) are going against each other.
I clearly blame Cable because I believe he has a major impact on who they draft. If he would focus on drafting guys that are already offensive lineman instead of trying to convert guys into them then I think we could be a lot better. I still don't understand why they let Carpenter go.
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