Jimmy Graham

I've been thinking a lot about Jimmy Graham as I've watched the NFL games this week. Watching Tyler Eifert, Greg Olson, Martellus Bennett and Antonio Gates has led me to believe that Jimmy Graham is not that special.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think this was obvious when he was with the Saints nor do I think he's a bad player nor do I think Graham is having a bad season. Statistically he is having a good season and I think he's getting a lot of targets and a decent amount of catches. I think he's also shown that he has good hands.

But one of the big things that I have been noticing is that Graham doesn't play like a big target. I've seen him get jump balls from Russ and he doesn't act like a basketball rebounder would, despite him playing basketball. He seems to wait for the ball to come down, he doesn't seem very fast, doesn't seem to achieve separation easily, etc.

And he's got good hands, don't get me wrong, but if you're a big receiver, you give up some of your advantage if you make catches at your chest.

So I've really come to the conclusion that Graham is not an upgrade over Luke Willson and that he was largely a product of the New Orleans system. Note that Ben Watson is producing just as well as Graham, if not better, for New Orleans.

Again, I'm not hating on Graham, nor am I criticizing the Front Office or even Darrel Bevell. I just no longer think that Jimmy Graham is this huge Red Zone or Short Yardage threat that we all thought when we got him. Nor do I really think he's this huge playmaker. I also feel very positively about Bevell running Graham on routes over the middle more. Thank you, thank you Darell.

Basically with Graham and Willson I think we are OK at the TE position, but I've given up on the early expectations I had that Graham would be a transformative player for the Seahawks. Don't see that happening now.

Go Hawks!

Gotta pound the rock all day, eat up that clock. Hawks win a close one 20-13

I see Graham as more of a big receiver or perhaps an ace H-back, so the comparison to other TEs feels a bit like apples to oranges. That said, I'd take Graham over any of those TEs except for maybe Eifert, who's a great TE though he has benefited quite a lot from Andy Dalton having balls of steel in the red zone.

Olsen I respect but I think he benefits tremendously from a dearth of competition around him. I don't think any of these other guys would have the kind of numbers in New Orleans that Graham had.

He doesnt hurt the team.

kearly":8szkjw5z said:

I see Graham as more of a big receiver or perhaps an ace H-back, so the comparison to other TEs feels a bit like apples to oranges. That said, I'd take Graham over any of those TEs except for maybe Eifert, who's a great TE though he has benefited quite a lot from Andy Dalton having balls of steel in the red zone.

Olsen I respect but I think he benefits tremendously from a dearth of competition around him. I don't think any of these other guys would have the kind of numbers in New Orleans that Graham had.

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I agree with you about treating Graham as a big receiver. Totally agree. But I don't know how you can say these guys wouldn't have the same numbers in New Orleans when Ben Watson IS!

The one thing that you have to consider what Jimmy Graham is that the team in New Orleans abused him. He was a big receiver he was a big target. He would jump balls all the time. And then the defense we just kick the hell out of him. About two years ago I noticed he starting to become very soft. With Russell throwing balls at are catchable, I don't think that this is a problem. If you want him to firm back up I think you just get it so he's not destroyed every catch

xgeoff":jv2ica3l said:

kearly":jv2ica3l said:

I see Graham as more of a big receiver or perhaps an ace H-back, so the comparison to other TEs feels a bit like apples to oranges. That said, I'd take Graham over any of those TEs except for maybe Eifert, who's a great TE though he has benefited quite a lot from Andy Dalton having balls of steel in the red zone.

Olsen I respect but I think he benefits tremendously from a dearth of competition around him. I don't think any of these other guys would have the kind of numbers in New Orleans that Graham had.

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I agree with you about treating Graham as a big receiver. Totally agree. But I don't know how you can say these guys wouldn't have the same numbers in New Orleans when Ben Watson IS!

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Ben Watson isn't producing at the pace that Jimmy Graham produced at in the New Orleans offense. Watson is on a pace for 900 yards and 5 touchdowns. Graham was a lot more productive in that offense.

I personally think we are aren't utilizing Graham correctly. The nice thing about a guy his size is that you can just loft the ball towards him in the redzone and he has a great chance of coming down with it.

Well, there's a couple of things that people are skipping over a bit:

1. There is an adjustment period. It happened to Tony Gonzalez (who I think is a better pure TE than anyone other than Gronk right now) when he went to Atlanta, and that's with a way better OC and a way better pocket passer already in place (I think overall Wilson is a better football player, but Ryan is superior from the pocket). He missed the Pro Bowl that year, and said he had to sit down with Ryan and the OC and work out how to utilize him better and how he could work better with Ryan. Both Graham and Wilson have shown they are willing and able to do this, and work to get better. Bevell, meh. Not sure about that guy.

2. Graham in the Red Zone is now a product of our terrible play calling. Graham was supposed to crush teams in the red zone. We are so terrible in the RZ right now, that teams are double and triple teaming him. This causes two issues that trouble me:

1. If Graham is doubled, someone else is open. Why are we not finding him consistently?

2. If we were able to utilize other weapons in the red zone, teams would've be able to double and triple Graham. Why can't we do this ?

Offenses are the sum of a lot of moving parts. Some of the problem can be attributed to our OL issues. Some of it is obviously on Wilson. Some of it is on Graham getting used to Wilson's unique style of QB play. and some of it is on Bevell.

To say Graham is not special is a bit superficial. Graham is a freak athlete. 6'7", 270 lbs and a 4.5 forty are hard to find. He may not be special in our offense (hell, outside of Lynch, who is?) but if you look at highlights and things Graham has done for NO, he's definitely a special player.

Graham is one part of the cog in our offense. He is a primary receiver for us in an offense that will rely more on the run going forward.

There's not a thing wrong with the plays he's been running. He was asked to do some run blocking early on so that it wouldn't be a tell every time he was on the field that it wouldn't be a pass. Any help he could give the offensive line to keep Russell on his feet was also a positive.

With the line making good progress, I see Jimmy being a vital red zone target, hopefully starting with Sunday night's game.

2Cool4School":47cy0i4w said:

He doesnt hurt the team.

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But his salary might.

-bsd

Idk, imo he hasn't gotten many jump balls from Russell. Definitely not as many as he should. And when he has, he either came away with the reception, or the ball was incomplete. Not intercepted. Bout as good as you can ask for.

bigtrain21":17mc7s0i said:

xgeoff":17mc7s0i said:

kearly":17mc7s0i said:

I see Graham as more of a big receiver or perhaps an ace H-back, so the comparison to other TEs feels a bit like apples to oranges. That said, I'd take Graham over any of those TEs except for maybe Eifert, who's a great TE though he has benefited quite a lot from Andy Dalton having balls of steel in the red zone.

Olsen I respect but I think he benefits tremendously from a dearth of competition around him. I don't think any of these other guys would have the kind of numbers in New Orleans that Graham had.

Click to expand...

I agree with you about treating Graham as a big receiver. Totally agree. But I don't know how you can say these guys wouldn't have the same numbers in New Orleans when Ben Watson IS!

Click to expand...

Ben Watson isn't producing at the pace that Jimmy Graham produced at in the New Orleans offense. Watson is on a pace for 900 yards and 5 touchdowns. Graham was a lot more productive in that offense.

I personally think we are aren't utilizing Graham correctly. The nice thing about a guy his size is that you can just loft the ball towards him in the redzone and he has a great chance of coming down with it.

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I don't think this is true (about lofting the ball up). I saw Russ do this, Jimmy waited for the ball to come down and the safety came over and jumped up to get the ball. This is a 6'1" safety getting to the ball before a 6'7" receiver. Shouldn't happen but it did. So I disagree, Russ CAN'T just throw the ball up to him. It hasn't worked.

akscoundrel":3l7g9s0h said:

Idk, imo he hasn't gotten many jump balls from Russell. Definitely not as many as he should. And when he has, he either came away with the reception, or the ball was incomplete. Not intercepted. Bout as good as you can ask for.

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He got a jump ball from Russ in the Red Zone, Russ put it on the money and Graham was out-jumped by a safety for the ball. It was incomplete but that is not a good result.

Hawks46":30ogp8we said:

To say Graham is not special is a bit superficial. Graham is a freak athlete. 6'7", 270 lbs and a 4.5 forty are hard to find. He may not be special in our offense (hell, outside of Lynch, who is?) but if you look at highlights and things Graham has done for NO, he's definitely a special player.

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I guess I am just not seeing it. He doesn't look that fast to me. I think this may be an issue of 'game speed'. Paul Richardson is super fast, but he doesn't seem to have 'game speed'. You look at a guy like Allen Robinson for the Jags. The guy has 4.6 speed, nothing special for a WR, but seems fast in the game.

xgeoff":28t5i4ym said:

akscoundrel":28t5i4ym said:

Idk, imo he hasn't gotten many jump balls from Russell. Definitely not as many as he should. And when he has, he either came away with the reception, or the ball was incomplete. Not intercepted. Bout as good as you can ask for.

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He got a jump ball from Russ in the Red Zone, Russ put it on the money and Graham was out-jumped by a safety for the ball. It was incomplete but that is not a good result.

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Keyword, 'a'. As in, 1. As in, in 8 games, 1. I think my post still stands.

And that's not counting the simply high throws from Russell that graham has snatched out of the air.

bigskydoc":2vgr6pw0 said:

2Cool4School":2vgr6pw0 said:

He doesnt hurt the team.

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But his salary might.

-bsd

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Any player who wants a salary at all hurts the team.

Jimmy Graham is a very emotional player which has its positives and negatives. The positive is that if you get him rolling he is going to be a beast of a weapon for you. If you ignore him and don't go his way even on plays he is suppose to be the primary read on then he is going to start moping a little and take plays off. I think the Seahawks are learning how to utilize him and he and Russ are starting to get on the same page, the best is yet to come.