You get what you pay for with the O line

as having the worst offensive line in the NFL. Maybe you get what you pay for: the Seahawks this season are paying their line just over $13 million, 30th out of the 32 teams.

RENTON — Seahawks linebacker K.J. Wright has a general philosophy about offensive linemen.

“They all look the same to me,’’ Wright said. “Just big dudes who put their bodies on you.’’


Some NFL observers might argue that the Seahawks have been testing the theory that you can dress up just about anyone as an offensive lineman and try to make it work.

Seattle this season is paying its offensive line just over $13 million, 30th out of the 32 NFL teams in spending on that position, according to OvertheCap.com. And roughly half of that is tied up in one player, left tackle Russell Okung, a 2010 first-round draft pick who has a salary-cap number of $7.2 million.

“So basically, it is fill-in type players at every other spot,’’ said Jason Fitzgerald, who writes about NFL financial issues for OvertheCap.com.

That’s in stark contrast to the team the Seahawks will face Sunday at CenturyLink Field, the Arizona Cardinals, in a game that figures to go a long way toward deciding who will win the NFC West.

Since Bruce Arians took over as Arizona’s coach in 2013, the Cardinals have spent heavy capital on draft picks and free-agent money to rebuild their offensive line. This year they are paying $29.4 million for their offensive line, fourth in the NFL. Making the most are left tackle Jared Veldheer (signed as a free agent to a five-year, $35 million deal in 2014) and left guard Mike Iupati, a former 49er signed before this season to a five-year deal worth up to $40 million."

Enough said about the main problem with the offense.

IMO its not even about the money.You can build a better Oline without breaking the bank if you are spending draft picks on Olineman.

A 2nd or 3rd round pick doesnt cost that much more than a someone like Bailey,Nowak or Gilliam.Its a matter of a few hundred thousand dollars.

Right now we would be paying 7 or 800000 dollars more for a player like Bitonio than we are for Bailey.Thats a small price in the big picture.

Oline is too crucial to load up with mediocre DL,Why spend 15000 trying to rebuild a yugo when you can spend 25000 and buy a real car.Especially if you plan on driving it to the Super Bowl

So it sounds like they use the same philosophy for about every position then? How many late round or undrafted players are on the team? So if they don't become superstars it's the players fault not the system/philosophy? Sounds like some crap excuse to me.

And the statement by KJ is garbage too “They all look the same to me,’’ Wright said. “Just big dudes who put their bodies on you.’’ When Bobby Wagner isn't in the lineup the linebacker group pretty much fits the same description ...

This take on the O-line is short sighted and knee jerk.

True, the cost saving measure of Unger (in a vacuum, where Unger never gets hurt) put a ton of pressure on Russell to make line calls for an inexperienced center.

But the biggest problem the Seattle O-line faces is a lack of experience, not cheapness. This line is far more athletic than anything Seattle has had before, but has been extremely handicapped by inexperience.

I would accept some of Anthony's criticisms if he had not complained so copiously about last year's line as well, and if he had proposed which players not on the o-line we should have axed so we could keep the oft maligned Carpenter and Unger.

You gonna bitch about a problem, at least have a well thought out counter plan.

To be fair, our attitude toward acquiring offensive linemen hasn't been all that different than our attitude toward most other positions. We just haven't pursued a pricier FA and/or trade acquisition like we have with QB, WR, TE, and CB. Our limitations at the offensive line seem to be consistent with a shortage of players who can play the positions as well as players have in the past. It's also reflective of how when cap constraints put us in a position where we must choose between players like Baldwin and/or Wagner versus players like Carpenter and Giacomini (wow, I remembered how to spell his name!), we've generally sided with retaining the players who are better at their respective position even though this has so far always meant letting o-linemen walk.

In the end, it's a gamble. So far, our gamble of relying more on coaching and education with o-linemen seems like it's been all risk and no reward despite how successful this same tactic has been with our defense. "You get what you pay for" isn't wrong. It's just tunnel visioning the financial aspect of the situation and it's immediate results rather than appreciating the context of how and why we've been so stingy on linemen.

I don't think Pete and Tom are looking at the offensive line as a short term project. When you're going into a season with this kind of inexperience on the line, you do things like implement a quick passing game, run the ball a lot and move the pocket to not kill your quarterback (imo).

Took a really long time for most of that to happen this season. I don't think they get worse so hopefully playing less talented teams is enough to get us into the playoffs. Didn't read nearly as many criticisms of the offensive line against Dallas. Big part of that is the quick passing game, something that people have been asking for and we finally got to see.

So far the results appear to indicate Anthony has a point. Coach Cable's experiment with DLineman is still however still in early stages as none of his converts has that much experience as an OLineman yet. My sense is that the team realizes they made a mistake in not acquiring an experienced C to replace Unger which was the reason for the efforts to acquire several experienced C's after they'd seen how slowly all of their candidates to play C were developing. None worked out though the need has remained obvious.

Sadly even with paying Okung more than half the money the team is spending on the OLine they are not really getting value from that expenditure either. I can see him being allowed to move on after this season and the money reallocated with the C position reinforced while a younger cheaper but hopefully somewhat talented LT added to the mix. So far the team hasn't played either developmental player Glowinski or Sokoli (drafted respectively 4th and 6th rounds) any significant time which indicates the coaches think Britt and Sweezy are certainly practicing better than either. They may just be developing these players slowly.

At present only three of the starting OLine are players drafted by the team (1st, 2nd, & 7th rounds) and Okung doesn't look much like a 6th OA draft pick. He's finishing up his expensive rookie deal as he was drafted in 2010 before the present CBA was in place. Britt has changed position and was a huge reach with a 2nd, he playing a new position this season. The other drafted player Sweezy may also be allowed to move along if the team decides to continue this OLine experiment and sets a limit on the price they'd be prepared to pay him. It is important to note that Sweezy has only played OLine since 2012, and plays well at times but has his weaknesses. Almost every others starting player is an undrafted player or a reclaimed player from another team. The Hawks clearly are not investing significant draft capital on their OLine. Is this intentional, or a result of their draft position? That's a question not easily answered.

At some point you wonder if Coach Cable isn't starting to catch some flack from the FO as the natives are becoming restless over the failings of the OLine. Yet I doubt we will see much change in philosophy except at C going forward. It is interesting to observe that Britt after a very rocky start is showing steady improvement at LG and Gilliam is making progress in being changed from being a TE to OT, but with all these rookies at positions and position changes happening at once the collective results are not pretty.

As the team has a developing core of younger talent at WR and TE and a good young QB perhaps the import of pass pro may need to be higher priority while the run blocking is remaining a steadily improving factor with a young and mostly inexperienced OLine.

Everyone wants to blame Cable but what ive seen from him he's a very good coach. He's probably one of the top 15 coaches at that position.

I think if you look around the league, some of the top Lines either have money invested in it or have great QBs that command alot of respect. QBs more or less who will get in thier Olines face when they need to and give them a piece of thier mind if need be.

We've seen this on the team for years, most linemen will figuratively die in battle for Lynch. Lynch commands a lot of respect..

Wilson in a lot of the soundbites that ive seen is constantly asking his linemen to have to do things like pick up the pace in the hurryup offense. Their body language suggest they tend to get annoyed with his rah-rah im not gonna say what I wanna say leadership.. And I cant count how many times ive seen Wilson get flattened and instead of helping him up the linemen just walk back to the huddle. Just all points that Wilson may not be respected.

And none of this is really coming from this year, but 2012-2014 when the Seahawks had vets like Unger, McQuistan, and Giacomini. When 1st round picks like Carpenter were starting to get healthy and started coming into his own. If you will with grown ass men with experience.

Thats why I think its important moving forward, now that he is paid like the most important player, is to act like hes the most important player. Guys like Manning and Brady wouldnt be so nice and be like "great job guys, I know youre doing your best" if they were getting sacked like Wilson. No they will get in your face and be like if you keep playing like that, youre going to be demoted, fired, cut, out of this league etc. And guess what those guys can play anyone and those guys will go to battle for them 300% because they are scared, they respect the authority Brady and Manning have, and its do or die.

I just havent seen that from Russ, and its like they still keep the training wheels and kid gloves on with him.

If you guys want to see Oline improvement, Bevell needs to get his ass in a booth, Wilson needs to have full command and control of the offense, calling plays from Bevell's suggestions, calling protections, reading defenses, utilize creative audibles to create confusion. The team is paying Russ like he's top dog but the offense they run and more or less the "point guard" approach to QBing is pretty much telling this team Russ isnt top dog.

And it all sucks. You have an Oline thats green behind the ears. An OC who takes forever to adjust from his game plan. And a QB who seems like hes not in full command of this offense especially when he needs to be. Just really a perfect storm for failure.

Anthony!":kz9q74bp said:

as having the worst offensive line in the NFL. Maybe you get what you pay for: the Seahawks this season are paying their line just over $13 million, 30th out of the 32 teams.

RENTON — Seahawks linebacker K.J. Wright has a general philosophy about offensive linemen.

“They all look the same to me,’’ Wright said. “Just big dudes who put their bodies on you.’’


Some NFL observers might argue that the Seahawks have been testing the theory that you can dress up just about anyone as an offensive lineman and try to make it work.

Seattle this season is paying its offensive line just over $13 million, 30th out of the 32 NFL teams in spending on that position, according to OvertheCap.com. And roughly half of that is tied up in one player, left tackle Russell Okung, a 2010 first-round draft pick who has a salary-cap number of $7.2 million.

“So basically, it is fill-in type players at every other spot,’’ said Jason Fitzgerald, who writes about NFL financial issues for OvertheCap.com.

That’s in stark contrast to the team the Seahawks will face Sunday at CenturyLink Field, the Arizona Cardinals, in a game that figures to go a long way toward deciding who will win the NFC West.

Since Bruce Arians took over as Arizona’s coach in 2013, the Cardinals have spent heavy capital on draft picks and free-agent money to rebuild their offensive line. This year they are paying $29.4 million for their offensive line, fourth in the NFL. Making the most are left tackle Jared Veldheer (signed as a free agent to a five-year, $35 million deal in 2014) and left guard Mike Iupati, a former 49er signed before this season to a five-year deal worth up to $40 million."

Enough said about the main problem with the offense.

Click to expand...

We are spending 4 million less then the Dallas Cowboys on our offensive line. Money Spent and performance are not related.

IrishNW":n7bpuz4n said:

Anthony!":n7bpuz4n said:

as having the worst offensive line in the NFL. Maybe you get what you pay for: the Seahawks this season are paying their line just over $13 million, 30th out of the 32 teams.

RENTON — Seahawks linebacker K.J. Wright has a general philosophy about offensive linemen.

“They all look the same to me,’’ Wright said. “Just big dudes who put their bodies on you.’’


Some NFL observers might argue that the Seahawks have been testing the theory that you can dress up just about anyone as an offensive lineman and try to make it work.

Seattle this season is paying its offensive line just over $13 million, 30th out of the 32 NFL teams in spending on that position, according to OvertheCap.com. And roughly half of that is tied up in one player, left tackle Russell Okung, a 2010 first-round draft pick who has a salary-cap number of $7.2 million.

“So basically, it is fill-in type players at every other spot,’’ said Jason Fitzgerald, who writes about NFL financial issues for OvertheCap.com.

That’s in stark contrast to the team the Seahawks will face Sunday at CenturyLink Field, the Arizona Cardinals, in a game that figures to go a long way toward deciding who will win the NFC West.

Since Bruce Arians took over as Arizona’s coach in 2013, the Cardinals have spent heavy capital on draft picks and free-agent money to rebuild their offensive line. This year they are paying $29.4 million for their offensive line, fourth in the NFL. Making the most are left tackle Jared Veldheer (signed as a free agent to a five-year, $35 million deal in 2014) and left guard Mike Iupati, a former 49er signed before this season to a five-year deal worth up to $40 million."

Enough said about the main problem with the offense.

Click to expand...

We are spending 4 million less then the Dallas Cowboys on our offensive line. Money Spent and performance are not related.

Click to expand...

The key for Dallas Oline is they are drafting Olineman and getting great production from some players on rookie contracts.That will change soon.
But rookie contracts are affordable if you draft right, have some good luck in players falling to your draft position and results.

I know this group is supposed to be the most atheltic but I will take good football players over workout wonders with sparq scores.

SeaChase":y741vix8 said:

So it sounds like they use the same philosophy for about every position then? How many late round or undrafted players are on the team? So if they don't become superstars it's the players fault not the system/philosophy? Sounds like some crap excuse to me.

And the statement by KJ is garbage too “They all look the same to me,’’ Wright said. “Just big dudes who put their bodies on you.’’ When Bobby Wagner isn't in the lineup the linebacker group pretty much fits the same description ...

Click to expand...

They have had great luck with lower draft picks but they havent drafted DBs and taught them to be WRs because they dont have bad habits or drafted RBs and made them LBs.They drafted good football players who played their position for the most part.

Cables excuse about drafting DL over OL doesnt wash.The truth is he has struggled with high draft choices.He can take a high drafted tackle and make them guards with the best of them but other than that he is highly overated.

Here's the big issue I have with this. The way they approach the OL goes against what their offensive identity is. Not utilizing resources here means they rely on Wilson and Lynch to overcome the deficiency there. A lot of their draft selections in the higher rounds are no longer with the team. They should be resigning these guys and probably would if they pick the right guys.

The current OL woes is the problem you have when you're trotting out DL converts to OL because you're poor in scouting decent offensive lineman. This is also my issue with Cable. He doesn't make good decisions in terms of the draft resources and who to pick. None of his top guys are here. Okung and Unger were drafted before he arrived. Carp - gone, Moffitt - gone. Britt- should be a backup, Nowak- DL convert, Sweezy - DL Convert, Gilliam - TE Convert, Bailey - UDFA, Bowie - looked solid during his rookie year - gone.

If we weren't paying the 15th highest rated QB in the league the second most money of all the players in the NFL, maybe we would have a little bit of money to improve the line. Just sayin.

Because the offensive line is exactly the reason Dallas has gotten to so many Super Bowls in the last ten years.

Tical21":v3rnky2b said:

If we weren't paying the 15th highest rated QB in the league the second most money of all the players in the NFL, maybe we would have a little bit of money to improve the line. Just sayin.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and by and large I think that's why we've started 4-4. So many adjustments with the line to compensate for how we've squeezed the cap in that position group. I think the idea was to really bank on continued superlative play from the defense and Kam's holdout really threw a monkey wrench in those plans. But now we've weathered that storm and it's time to get back to Seahawk ball! Too clichey Tical?

Scottemojo":331pke1y said:

This take on the O-line is short sighted and knee jerk.

True, the cost saving measure of Unger (in a vacuum, where Unger never gets hurt) put a ton of pressure on Russell to make line calls for an inexperienced center.

But the biggest problem the Seattle O-line faces is a lack of experience, not cheapness. This line is far more athletic than anything Seattle has had before, but has been extremely handicapped by inexperience.

I would accept some of Anthony's criticisms if he had not complained so copiously about last year's line as well, and if he had proposed which players not on the o-line we should have axed so we could keep the oft maligned Carpenter and Unger.

You gonna bitch about a problem, at least have a well thought out counter plan.

Click to expand...

For one I had a plan which you obviously did not read, and it was not to fill the void with dline man projects. IT was to sign 1-2 experience oline man that can pass block, and then draft a few real oline man who are either very good pass blockers or at least equally as good at pass blocking as at run blocking. However we did none of these things.

Pandion Haliaetus":hka1yiza said:

Everyone wants to blame Cable but what ive seen from him he's a very good coach. He's probably one of the top 15 coaches at that position.

I think if you look around the league, some of the top Lines either have money invested in it or have great QBs that command alot of respect. QBs more or less who will get in thier Olines face when they need to and give them a piece of thier mind if need be.

We've seen this on the team for years, most linemen will figuratively die in battle for Lynch. Lynch commands a lot of respect..

Wilson in a lot of the soundbites that ive seen is constantly asking his linemen to have to do things like pick up the pace in the hurryup offense. Their body language suggest they tend to get annoyed with his rah-rah im not gonna say what I wanna say leadership.. And I cant count how many times ive seen Wilson get flattened and instead of helping him up the linemen just walk back to the huddle. Just all points that Wilson may not be respected.

And none of this is really coming from this year, but 2012-2014 when the Seahawks had vets like Unger, McQuistan, and Giacomini. When 1st round picks like Carpenter were starting to get healthy and started coming into his own. If you will with grown ass men with experience.

Thats why I think its important moving forward, now that he is paid like the most important player, is to act like hes the most important player. Guys like Manning and Brady wouldnt be so nice and be like "great job guys, I know youre doing your best" if they were getting sacked like Wilson. No they will get in your face and be like if you keep playing like that, youre going to be demoted, fired, cut, out of this league etc. And guess what those guys can play anyone and those guys will go to battle for them 300% because they are scared, they respect the authority Brady and Manning have, and its do or die.

I just havent seen that from Russ, and its like they still keep the training wheels and kid gloves on with him.

If you guys want to see Oline improvement, Bevell needs to get his ass in a booth, Wilson needs to have full command and control of the offense, calling plays from Bevell's suggestions, calling protections, reading defenses, utilize creative audibles to create confusion. The team is paying Russ like he's top dog but the offense they run and more or less the "point guard" approach to QBing is pretty much telling this team Russ isnt top dog.

And it all sucks. You have an Oline thats green behind the ears. An OC who takes forever to adjust from his game plan. And a QB who seems like hes not in full command of this offense especially when he needs to be. Just really a perfect storm for failure.

Click to expand...

loads of assumption throwing it all back on the Qb Laughable

Siouxhawk":34yyucty said:

Tical21":34yyucty said:

If we weren't paying the 15th highest rated QB in the league the second most money of all the players in the NFL, maybe we would have a little bit of money to improve the line. Just sayin.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and by and large I think that's why we've started 4-4. So many adjustments with the line to compensate for how we've squeezed the cap in that position group. I think the idea was to really bank on continued superlative play from the defense and Kam's holdout really threw a monkey wrench in those plans. But now we've weathered that storm and it's time to get back to Seahawk ball! Too clichey Tical?

Click to expand...

Wow really we have not even started paying Wilson that money yet, HIs cap hit this year is 700k. We have had oline problems for 3+ years sorry this excuse is complete crap but expected.

Anthony!":2yb2mxa5 said:

Pandion Haliaetus":2yb2mxa5 said:

Everyone wants to blame Cable but what ive seen from him he's a very good coach. He's probably one of the top 15 coaches at that position.

I think if you look around the league, some of the top Lines either have money invested in it or have great QBs that command alot of respect. QBs more or less who will get in thier Olines face when they need to and give them a piece of thier mind if need be.

We've seen this on the team for years, most linemen will figuratively die in battle for Lynch. Lynch commands a lot of respect..

Wilson in a lot of the soundbites that ive seen is constantly asking his linemen to have to do things like pick up the pace in the hurryup offense. Their body language suggest they tend to get annoyed with his rah-rah im not gonna say what I wanna say leadership.. And I cant count how many times ive seen Wilson get flattened and instead of helping him up the linemen just walk back to the huddle. Just all points that Wilson may not be respected.

And none of this is really coming from this year, but 2012-2014 when the Seahawks had vets like Unger, McQuistan, and Giacomini. When 1st round picks like Carpenter were starting to get healthy and started coming into his own. If you will with grown ass men with experience.

Thats why I think its important moving forward, now that he is paid like the most important player, is to act like hes the most important player. Guys like Manning and Brady wouldnt be so nice and be like "great job guys, I know youre doing your best" if they were getting sacked like Wilson. No they will get in your face and be like if you keep playing like that, youre going to be demoted, fired, cut, out of this league etc. And guess what those guys can play anyone and those guys will go to battle for them 300% because they are scared, they respect the authority Brady and Manning have, and its do or die.

I just havent seen that from Russ, and its like they still keep the training wheels and kid gloves on with him.

If you guys want to see Oline improvement, Bevell needs to get his ass in a booth, Wilson needs to have full command and control of the offense, calling plays from Bevell's suggestions, calling protections, reading defenses, utilize creative audibles to create confusion. The team is paying Russ like he's top dog but the offense they run and more or less the "point guard" approach to QBing is pretty much telling this team Russ isnt top dog.

And it all sucks. You have an Oline thats green behind the ears. An OC who takes forever to adjust from his game plan. And a QB who seems like hes not in full command of this offense especially when he needs to be. Just really a perfect storm for failure.

Click to expand...

loads of assumption throwing it all back on the Qb Laughable

Click to expand...

Did you even read the whole post? The last statement (see bolded) states spreading out the blame and not just pointing a finger at one player.

Laloosh":a7k5pou8 said:

I don't think Pete and Tom are looking at the offensive line as a short term project. When you're going into a season with this kind of inexperience on the line, you do things like implement a quick passing game, run the ball a lot and move the pocket to not kill your quarterback (imo).

Took a really long time for most of that to happen this season. I don't think they get worse so hopefully playing less talented teams is enough to get us into the playoffs. Didn't read nearly as many criticisms of the offensive line against Dallas. Big part of that is the quick passing game, something that people have been asking for and we finally got to see.

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I often read through an entire thread and then choose my favorite post. This is my favorite. Thanks Laloosh. Nothing else to add to it right now.