Mathieu says that Hawks use of Jimmy Graham is...

WilliamCooper · Nov 17, 2015

Predictable. Said they never had one mismatch against him and had favored coverage every play. Nice!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... reatively/

mrt144 · Nov 17, 2015

Bevell will take this as an indication that his plan is working.

The Bevell Gambit is the Xanatos Gambit through and through. Infallible football genius does that.

Siouxhawk · Nov 17, 2015

Three dropped balls and a missed chance at a touchdown. Yeah, he really wasn't utilized at all.

brimsalabim · Nov 17, 2015

We know our route combinations show very little creativity but its also true that Graham did little with his opportunities.

Seymour · Nov 17, 2015

Honey badger sees a chink in the armor and stuffed some C4 into it. Sounds about right.

marko358 · Nov 17, 2015

Siouxhawk":m5g7g8g3 said:
Three dropped balls and a missed chance at a touchdown. Yeah, he really wasn't utilized at all.

From the article, emphasis mine:

“I don’t think they use him quite as creatively as the Saints used him,” Mathieu said on Monday’s PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio. “I played against Jimmy in 2013 when he was with the Saints and I mean he was all over the field. The biggest thing with them was he created mismatches for him, and [Sunday] he wasn’t really in a position where we felt like it was a mismatch.”

I'm failing to see anything about the frequency of targets which was the basis of your response. Perhaps you can actually address the actual critique next time and not deflect anything remotely insinuating something negative about the almighty Darell Bevell.

Siouxhawk · Nov 17, 2015

marko358":1cmx5kby said:
Siouxhawk":1cmx5kby said:

Three dropped balls and a missed chance at a touchdown. Yeah, he really wasn't utilized at all.

Click to expand...

From the article, emphasis mine:

“I don’t think they use him quite as creatively as the Saints used him,” Mathieu said on Monday’s PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio. “I played against Jimmy in 2013 when he was with the Saints and I mean he was all over the field. The biggest thing with them was he created mismatches for him, and [Sunday] he wasn’t really in a position where we felt like it was a mismatch.”

Click to expand...

I'm failing to see anything about the frequency of targets which was the basis of your response. Perhaps you can actually address the actual critique next time and not deflect anything remotely insinuating something negative about the almighty Darell Bevell.

He's saying that Jimmy isn't used properly and I'm saying three dropped balls and a potential touchdown is evidence he is being used properly, he just didn't execute in the game against the Cards. And further more, he's on pace to be in the top 5 numbers wise all-time for Seahawk tight ends in a single season.

NINEster · Nov 17, 2015

Graham has been in relative check the last two seasons by NFC West defenses.

Now suddenly he goes to Seattle and is supposed to break out against those same defenses?

Optimus25 · Nov 17, 2015

Siouxhawk":3s0i1rth said:
marko358":3s0i1rth said:

Siouxhawk":3s0i1rth said:

Three dropped balls and a missed chance at a touchdown. Yeah, he really wasn't utilized at all.

Click to expand...

From the article, emphasis mine:

“I don’t think they use him quite as creatively as the Saints used him,” Mathieu said on Monday’s PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio. “I played against Jimmy in 2013 when he was with the Saints and I mean he was all over the field. The biggest thing with them was he created mismatches for him, and [Sunday] he wasn’t really in a position where we felt like it was a mismatch.”

Click to expand...

I'm failing to see anything about the frequency of targets which was the basis of your response. Perhaps you can actually address the actual critique next time and not deflect anything remotely insinuating something negative about the almighty Darell Bevell.

Click to expand...

He's saying that Jimmy isn't used properly and I'm saying three dropped balls and a potential touchdown is evidence he is being used properly, he just didn't execute in the game against the Cards. And further more, he's on pace to be in the top 5 numbers wise all-time for Seahawk tight ends in a single season.

Ummm. Who's the competition in that category?. Stevens?. Carlson?
Your bias and absurd Bevell defense always crumbles in light of reality.

Jimmy would compete with all time RECEIVING categories under most coordinators.

When cris Collinsworth is even saying we're abandoning the run at the wrong times and failing to properly isolate Jimmy, you should take a step back from contrarian-ville.

MontanaHawk05 · Nov 17, 2015

This rudimentary offense isn't helping anyone.

Pete believes in a simple scheme executed to perfection. It's worked with the defense. I'm not sure it's worked with the offense. He needs to figure that out.

Siouxhawk · Nov 17, 2015

Optimus25":2ywbky1r said:
Siouxhawk":2ywbky1r said:

marko358":2ywbky1r said:

Siouxhawk":2ywbky1r said:

Three dropped balls and a missed chance at a touchdown. Yeah, he really wasn't utilized at all.

Click to expand...

From the article, emphasis mine:

“I don’t think they use him quite as creatively as the Saints used him,” Mathieu said on Monday’s PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio. “I played against Jimmy in 2013 when he was with the Saints and I mean he was all over the field. The biggest thing with them was he created mismatches for him, and [Sunday] he wasn’t really in a position where we felt like it was a mismatch.”

Click to expand...

I'm failing to see anything about the frequency of targets which was the basis of your response. Perhaps you can actually address the actual critique next time and not deflect anything remotely insinuating something negative about the almighty Darell Bevell.

Click to expand...

He's saying that Jimmy isn't used properly and I'm saying three dropped balls and a potential touchdown is evidence he is being used properly, he just didn't execute in the game against the Cards. And further more, he's on pace to be in the top 5 numbers wise all-time for Seahawk tight ends in a single season.

Click to expand...

Ummm. Who's the competition in that category?. Stevens?. Carlson?
Your bias and absurd Bevell defense always crumbles in light of reality.

Jimmy would compete with all time RECEIVING categories under most coordinators.

When cris Collinsworth is even saying we're abandoning the run at the wrong times and failing to properly isolate Jimmy, you should take a step back from contrarian-ville.

Jimmy is also on par to what he set in receiving yards each of the last 4 years. So again, he's not being underutilized, especially when he missed 3 catches himself on Sunday. That's the light of reality.

West TX Hawk · Nov 17, 2015

[/quote]
Jimmy is also on par to what he set in receiving yards each of the last 4 years. So again, he's not being underutilized, especially when he missed 3 catches himself on Sunday. That's the light of reality.[/quote][/quote]

I think what many see is not necessarily the lack of targets, which has increased the last few games, but as the article stresses, how he's used, i.e. the particular need to use him to create mismatches and especially in the RZ with more creative approaches. It's also troubling to see him in-line and attempting to block on 3rd down sometimes instead of running a route.

DavidSeven · Nov 17, 2015

All this supposed creativity in New Orleans didn't do squat for him when the Seahawks played the Saints over the last few years. And it's not like we've been especially adept at shutting down tight ends.

At the end of the day, Graham is the same player that Michael Bennett said he was in 2013. Not to say he can't or won't help us, but he ultimately is looking like the same guy who our own defensive players derided after that 2013 playoff game. You throw him up against a physical defense, and suddenly the arms get a little shorter and he isn't quite as aggressive to his spot. He was given a ton of opportunities to make plays on Sunday night over smaller defenders and just didn't get it done. I have a hard time blaming his utilization for that.

Recon_Hawk · Nov 17, 2015

West TX Hawk":39271i8f said:
Jimmy is also on par to what he set in receiving yards each of the last 4 years. So again, he's not being underutilized, especially when he missed 3 catches himself on Sunday. That's the light of reality.

Click to expand...

I think what many see is not necessarily the lack of targets, which has increased the last few games, but as the article stresses, how he's used, i.e. the particular need to use him to create mismatches and especially in the RZ with more creative approaches. It's also troubling to see him in-line and attempting to block on 3rd down sometimes instead of running a route.

Click to expand...

A lot of this is on the philosophy of Pete.

To use a basketball analogy, when you have a great scorer on your team, he will get a lot of double teams and/or zone-1 defenses. The coach has two ways to beat this:

1. Design an offense to get that guy open and get him his shots no matter what, or
2. Design an offense that utilizes the other 4 guys on the floor who should get easier looks because of the focus on the superstar.

Right or wrong, I get the sense that Pete is mostly fine choosing the 2nd option.

With Arizona committing two guys bracketing Jimmy most the game, Seattle's should have been able to scheme elsewhere to take advantage of that. Not that they didn't try (deep ball interception is a good example). They just couldn't capitalize on it this week.

*penalties also gave Arizona some easy calls on defense.

QuahHawk · Nov 17, 2015

Make a lot of sense. I though I saw 3 guys on Graham at one point.

SoulfishHawk · Nov 18, 2015

As if the opinion of Mathieu matters. Next

even though he does have a good point, Bevell seems to have no idea how to use one of the best players in football :evil:

Scottemojo · Nov 18, 2015

DavidSeven":15xo7q0q said:
All this supposed creativity in New Orleans didn't do squat for him when the Seahawks played the Saints over the last few years. And it's not like we've been especially adept at shutting down tight ends.

At the end of the day, Graham is the same player that Michael Bennett said he was in 2013. Not to say he can't or won't help us, but he ultimately is looking like the same guy who our own defensive players derided after that 2013 playoff game. You throw him up against a physical defense, and suddenly the arms get a little shorter and he isn't quite as aggressive to his spot. He was given a ton of opportunities to make plays on Sunday night over smaller defenders and just didn't get it done. I have a hard time blaming his utilization for that.

Sometimes I wonder if you defend Bevell because of a contrarian streak.

Take the results of the game away.

An opposing player who is damn good said the same thing many on here have noticed: Seattle's offense does not often create mismatches with it's use Graham (or others).

What Tyronne said is germaine to a discussion about our OC. Also, while you are absolutely correct in pointing out we have shut down Graham while struggling with other tight ends, it isn't like New Orleans used Graham as a traditional tight end, they mostly use him as a big WR, and this defense has not struggled with big receivers, not until this year anyway. Also, I would point out, that if Graham lacks the physicality to play the role of a traditional tight end, then it says nothing good about our offensive coordination to continue to use him as one. Isn't it the job of offensive coordination to use player talents to their best?

Take you must defend Bevell bias out of reading Tyronnes comments. Is it true? Did we run plays to isolate Graham on a specific defender or not? How he played in the game has zero to do with that question.

red grenadine · Nov 18, 2015

Siouxhawk":3v1hhndm said:
Three dropped balls and a missed chance at a touchdown. Yeah, he really wasn't utilized at all.

Siouxhawk":3v1hhndm said:
He's saying that Jimmy isn't used properly and I'm saying three dropped balls and a potential touchdown is evidence he is being used properly, he just didn't execute in the game against the Cards. And further more, he's on pace to be in the top 5 numbers wise all-time for Seahawk tight ends in a single season.

Siouxhawk":3v1hhndm said:
Jimmy is also on par to what he set in receiving yards each of the last 4 years. So again, he's not being underutilized, especially when he missed 3 catches himself on Sunday. That's the light of reality.

Here is Mathieu's squote

"I don’t think they use him quite as creatively as the Saints used him. I played against Jimmy in 2013 when he was with the Saints and I mean he was all over the field. The biggest thing with them was he created mismatches for him, and [Sunday] he wasn’t really in a position where we felt like it was a mismatch."

1. Nowhere is Mathieu saying Graham wasn't being utilized.
2. Nowhere is Mathieu saying Graham wasn't used properly
3. Being top 5 numbers wise as a TE doesn't mean much. He could potentially have been far and away #1.
4. Nowhere is Mathieu saying Graham was being underutilized
5. Jimmy Graham yards/game last 4 years, starting with 2011: 82, 66, 76, 56. With us? 55.
6. Jimmy Graham TDs last 4 years, starting with 2011: 11, 9, 16, 10. With us? 2
7. Jimmy Graham receptions/game, starting with 2011: 6.2, 5.7, 5.4, 5.3. With us? 4.6

Mathieu is saying we are not using Graham creatively. We can line up Graham as usual and force the ball to him every pass play. He will get his targets and share of catches. That does not mean he is being used creatively to force mismatches on the field. That just means we are lining him up in the usual spots and throwing the ball to him, without taking into account the unique propositions he brings as an athletic freak and great pass catcher.

Hawks46 · Nov 18, 2015

Someone had 2 weeks to prepare for us and out coached us ?

Shocker.

Honestly, the Cards didn't do anything special in the first quarter. They played solid base defense, rarely blitzed, and let the offense and the refs take us out of our game plan.

There isn't an offense in the league that has plays drawn up for 3rd and 20. Not with a reliable degree of success at least.

OkieHawk · Nov 18, 2015

red grenadine":3gh5oira said:
Siouxhawk":3gh5oira said:

Three dropped balls and a missed chance at a touchdown. Yeah, he really wasn't utilized at all.

Click to expand...

Siouxhawk":3gh5oira said:

He's saying that Jimmy isn't used properly and I'm saying three dropped balls and a potential touchdown is evidence he is being used properly, he just didn't execute in the game against the Cards. And further more, he's on pace to be in the top 5 numbers wise all-time for Seahawk tight ends in a single season.

Click to expand...

Siouxhawk":3gh5oira said:

Jimmy is also on par to what he set in receiving yards each of the last 4 years. So again, he's not being underutilized, especially when he missed 3 catches himself on Sunday. That's the light of reality.

Click to expand...

Here is Mathieu's squote

"I don’t think they use him quite as creatively as the Saints used him. I played against Jimmy in 2013 when he was with the Saints and I mean he was all over the field. The biggest thing with them was he created mismatches for him, and [Sunday] he wasn’t really in a position where we felt like it was a mismatch."

1. Nowhere is Mathieu saying Graham wasn't being utilized.
2. Nowhere is Mathieu saying Graham wasn't used properly
3. Being top 5 numbers wise as a TE doesn't mean much. He could potentially have been far and away #1.
4. Nowhere is Mathieu saying Graham was being underutilized
5. Jimmy Graham yards/game last 4 years, starting with 2011: 82, 66, 76, 56. With us? 55.
6. Jimmy Graham TDs last 4 years, starting with 2011: 11, 9, 16, 10. With us? 2
7. Jimmy Graham receptions/game, starting with 2011: 6.2, 5.7, 5.4, 5.3. With us? 4.6

Mathieu is saying we are not using Graham creatively. We can line up Graham as usual and force the ball to him every pass play. He will get his targets and share of catches. That does not mean he is being used creatively to force mismatches on the field. That just means we are lining him up in the usual spots and throwing the ball to him, without taking into account the unique propositions he brings as an athletic freak and great pass catcher.

Stop using facts and stats to back up your argument against him... :twisted:

Mathieu says that Hawks use of Jimmy Graham is...

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