1st and Forever--Drive Summaries

Watching the game, I thought we ended up with penalties on offense which killed most of our drives. We went three and out after digging ourselves these holes. On the drives with on penalties, save for one, we got points. Just saying, penalties killed our offense.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=400791599

On the first drive:

1st and 25 at SEA 28

(11:51 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to D.Baldwin to SEA 38 for 10 yards (T.Mathieu)

Next drive:

1st and 20 at SEA 10

(1:59 - 1st) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right [F.Rucker]

Next drive (safety):

1st and 20 at SEA 10

(1:59 - 1st) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right [F.Rucker]

Next drive:

1st and 20 at SEA 10

(6:33 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to J.Kearse (J.Powers)

Next drive: Touchdown, no penalties

Next drive: Field goal, no penalties

Next drive: Interception on 2d down, no penalties

Next drive: Touchdown, no penalties

Next drive:
1st and 20 at SEA 43

(1:35 - 3rd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson scrambles left end pushed ob at SEA 48 for 5 yards (K.Minter)

Next drive: Touchdown (after the sack fumble)

Next drive:
2nd and 23 at SEA 42

(6:56 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to M.Lynch to 50 for 8 yards (A.Okafor)

Next drive: Field goal, no penalties

Thanks for doing that aawolf.
So the offense worked just fine save for the drives where we hindered by holding, facemasks and false starts.

Siouxhawk":3s2divsq said:

Thanks for doing that aawolf.
So the offense worked just fine save for the drives where we hindered by holding, facemasks and false starts.

Click to expand...

The glass is always half full when you're walking around collecting the tears of Seahawks fans.

mrt144":3bw8pibq said:

Siouxhawk":3bw8pibq said:

Thanks for doing that aawolf.
So the offense worked just fine save for the drives where we hindered by holding, facemasks and false starts.

Click to expand...

The glass is always half full when you're walking around collecting the tears of Seahawks fans.

Click to expand...

If we can get the defense to close out a game with a stop, those tears quickly turn to cheers.

Penalties killed us. No doubt about it. One thing that stood out watching the all-22 tape, though...This offense has a really hard time stringing 3 good plays together to convert 1st and long.

The offensive line can't consistently protect longer than a 3 step drop. Lockett, Matthews, and Kearse are getting manhandled at the LOS and downfield. Russell is struggling to make the gutsy, accurate throw needed. The play design is predicated on simple routes that aren't confusing a defense playing deep coverage.

I know the odds are against a team in 1st and long no matter what the offense, but you'd think they could come back from at least one of these penalties.

If this team is going to go anywhere the offense cannot shoot themselves in the foot, because what I'm seeing they don't have the players or plays to overcome it.

Yet too many fans think Bevell needs more plays that work because we face 1st an 20 and 3 and 15 constantly.

Recon_Hawk":353e41hs said:

Penalties killed us. No doubt about it. One thing that stood out watching the all-22 tape, though...This offense has a really hard time stringing 3 good plays together to convert 1st and long.

The offensive line can't consistently protect longer than a 3 step drop. Lockett, Matthews, and Kearse are getting manhandled at the LOS and downfield. Russell is struggling to make the gutsy, accurate throw needed. The play design is predicated on simple routes that aren't confusing a defense playing deep coverage.

I know the odds are against a team in 1st and long no matter what the offense, but you'd think they could come back from at least one of these penalties.

If this team is going to go anywhere, the offense cannot shoot themselves in the foot, because what I'm seeing they don't have the players or plays to overcome it.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. The 3 and out in the 2nd where it starts with JFG holding...incomplete pass that is contested to Kearse, 2 yard run by Lynch, incomplete pass to Baldwin contested by The Honey Badger and surrounded by 2 other Cards... That last play is especially flaccid given the 2 Go routes on the outside and JFG running an out from behind the LOS. Legitimately the only plays to be made here are either 1 on 1s on the outside where the safety didn't commit to either side and you just huck it and hope the WR makes the catch (to be fair both seem to be running those routes to clear out space) or you go to Baldwin across the middle into 3 card players (which happened) or throw to JFG and hope he makes a play in YAC which is debatable. The coverage is that good from what I saw on that play but it just hints at the futility of playing to the situation at all right now.

Basis4day":2kupwsvv said:

Yet too many fans think Bevell needs more plays that work because we face 1st an 20 and 3 and 15 constantly.

Click to expand...

Without looking, can you guess how many yards on average the Seahawks got on drives where it started with a 10 yard penalty?

Some of that is definitely because of expected gains of run vs. pass and the obvious faults of our passing game but...

Guess.

Edit: I'll even do one better - Average yards after offensive penalty. That way we get the Sweezy hold and RWs intentional grounding.

It also just changes the dynamic of mindset of "what is needed" in potentially bad ways. On the safety/fumble the routes were all deepish except for the Lynch dump off which was being sped toward and read well by a LB. None of the deeper stuff looks open on the all-22. In hindsight he obviously should have dumped it off and taken the 5 yards at seemingly best (likely less from how the LB was seeing it), but that's where I think 1st-20 hurts in a more subtle way, it really makes that short dump off seem a much less appealing option to have a chance at getting a 1st. So he tries to buy some time to either let Lynch break up field or find someone on the deeper routes and it ends up a mess. This isn't to say RW made a good choice, he didn't and can't fumble that ball, but I think that's another way the penalties hurt.

It was also just bad design to have everything but Lynch going 10+ yards without turning. Give him at least 1 of the 4 routes sitting down in the middle. It was like a 1 high safety and the middle in the shots I saw looked very open to some sitting or crossing. But going from the like 10 yard line the routes just seemed poor.

erik2690":29mzmaq9 said:

It also just changes the dynamic of mindset of "what is needed" in potentially bad ways. On the safety/fumble the routes were all deepish except for the Lynch dump off which was being sped toward and read well by a LB. None of the deeper stuff looks open on the all-22. In hindsight he obviously should have dumped it off and taken the 5 yards at seemingly best (likely less from hoe the LB was seeing it), but that's where I think 1st-20 hurts in a more subtle way, it really makes that short dump off seem a much less appealing option to have a chance at getting a 1st. So he tries to buy some time to either let Lynch break up field or find someone on the deeper routes and it ends up a mess. This isn't to say RW made a good choice, he didn't and can't fumble that ball, but I think that's another way the penalties hurt.

It was also just bad design to have everything but Lynch going 10+ yards without turning. Give him at least 1 of the 4 routes sitting down in the middle. It was like a 1 high safety and the middle in the shots I saw looked very open to some sitting or crossing. But going from the like 10 yard line the routes just seemed poor.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's really interesting to see how often that happens and while I understand the concept of throwing to a spot, some of these just can't work within the protection the OL is provided in the situation provided. Another thing you mentioned which is Lynch. I see him not being a viable target due to having to block or simply being overwhelmed and picked up in blocking is hurting. In another thread I mentioned the lack of RB screen passes and then was made aware of the fact that we run them...TERRIBLY.

mrt144":1rz6l5oj said:

Recon_Hawk":1rz6l5oj said:

Penalties killed us. No doubt about it. One thing that stood out watching the all-22 tape, though...This offense has a really hard time stringing 3 good plays together to convert 1st and long.

The offensive line can't consistently protect longer than a 3 step drop. Lockett, Matthews, and Kearse are getting manhandled at the LOS and downfield. Russell is struggling to make the gutsy, accurate throw needed. The play design is predicated on simple routes that aren't confusing a defense playing deep coverage.

I know the odds are against a team in 1st and long no matter what the offense, but you'd think they could come back from at least one of these penalties.

If this team is going to go anywhere, the offense cannot shoot themselves in the foot, because what I'm seeing they don't have the players or plays to overcome it.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. The 3 and out in the 2nd where it starts with JFG holding...incomplete pass that is contested to Kearse, 2 yard run by Lynch, incomplete pass to Baldwin contested by The Honey Badger and surrounded by 2 other Cards... That last play is especially flaccid given the 2 Go routes on the outside and JFG running an out from behind the LOS. Legitimately the only plays to be made here are either 1 on 1s on the outside where the safety didn't commit to either side and you just huck it and hope the WR makes the catch (to be fair both seem to be running those routes to clear out space) or you go to Baldwin across the middle into 3 card players (which happened) or throw to JFG and hope he makes a play in YAC which is debatable. The coverage is that good from what I saw on that play but it just hints at the futility of playing to the situation at all right now.

Click to expand...

We were really bad this week in 1st and long, 2d and long, 3d and long. It did seem like we were holding the ball way too much. However, in those situations, I guess Bevell felt that running the ball on fist and second down was futile? I don't know, but we need to get more plays that get the ball out quicker on passing downs, I agree.

mrt144":orj0ws0c said:

Basis4day":orj0ws0c said:

Yet too many fans think Bevell needs more plays that work because we face 1st an 20 and 3 and 15 constantly.

Click to expand...

Without looking, can you guess how many yards on average the Seahawks got on drives where it started with a 10 yard penalty?

Some of that is definitely because of expected gains of run vs. pass and the obvious faults of our passing game but...

Guess.

Edit: I'll even do one better - Average yards after offensive penalty. That way we get the Sweezy hold and RWs intentional grounding.

Click to expand...

Can you expound?
I'm listening...

Optimus25":1qujqyna said:

mrt144":1qujqyna said:

Basis4day":1qujqyna said:

Yet too many fans think Bevell needs more plays that work because we face 1st an 20 and 3 and 15 constantly.

Click to expand...

Without looking, can you guess how many yards on average the Seahawks got on drives where it started with a 10 yard penalty?

Some of that is definitely because of expected gains of run vs. pass and the obvious faults of our passing game but...

Guess.

Edit: I'll even do one better - Average yards after offensive penalty. That way we get the Sweezy hold and RWs intentional grounding.

Click to expand...

Can you expound?
I'm listening...

Click to expand...

Drive #1: Facemask, Yards After Penalty: 13. 10 Yard Pass, 3 Yard Run
Drive #2: Holding, Delay of Game, Yards After Penalty: 10. 10 Yard Run
Drive #3: Holding, Yards After Penalty: -2. -2 Yard Fumble for Safety
Drive #4: Holding, Yards After Penalty: 2. 2 Yard Run
Drive #5: TD
Drive #6: FG
Drive #7: INT
Drive #8: TD
Drive #9: Holding, Yards After Penalty: 5. 5 Yard Scramble
Drive #10: TD
Drive #11: Intentional Ground, Yards After Penalty: 8. 8 Yard Pass
Drive #12: FG

So 13, 10, -2, 2, 5, 8: 6 yards per drive after offensive penalty. Half of which were passing despite passing plays almost 2:1 over rushing. Again, the distance of 'to go' influenced the play calls to take rushing off the table but...there were so many incompletes some on RW, some on the plays themselves, some on the WRs who dropped it, you know how 2015 is. This says to me that this team barely has an capacity to recover from penalties strategically.