How quickly we forget....

ApnaHawk · Nov 25, 2015

Last year's victory against Green Bay,

The first 3 quarters against Carolina,

The "who is their qb again" Arizona Cardinals,

"The Tip" against San Fran..

"The Pick" against Houston.....

Russells coming out party against Chicago...

The choke against Miami.....

Sidney Rice long bomb against the Pats....

In the past few years, we have played a lot of close games. We have won most of them, but also lost a couple. This year, we've lost more and won less. It's really no different then in years past. Because we are 5-5, we tend to view the negatives more often than the positives. Our team is IMHO the most balanced team in the NFL. Teams constantly play us like its their SuperBowl and we just keep chucking away.

No team has been able to blow out this current team. NO TEAM! Until that day happens, I will always believe we are the best!

Anthony! · Nov 25, 2015

ApnaHawk":3qyaz77k said:
Last year's victory against Green Bay,

The first 3 quarters against Carolina,

The "who is their qb again" Arizona Cardinals,

"The Tip" against San Fran..

"The Pick" against Houston.....

Russells coming out party against Chicago...

The choke against Miami.....

Sidney Rice long bomb against the Pats....

In the past few years, we have played a lot of close games. We have won most of them, but also lost a couple. This year, we've lost more and won less. It's really no different then in years past. Because we are 5-5, we tend to view the negatives more often than the positives. Our team is IMHO the most balanced team in the NFL. Teams constantly play us like its their SuperBowl and we just keep chucking away.

No team has been able to blow out this current team. NO TEAM! Until that day happens, I will always believe we are the best!

mostly true there is a difference though, this years oline is the worst in football at pass protection. Prior to this in the Wilson era the worse was 24th. Huge difference.

Hawkpower · Nov 25, 2015

Anthony!":9assc9ij said:
ApnaHawk":9assc9ij said:

Last year's victory against Green Bay,

The first 3 quarters against Carolina,

The "who is their qb again" Arizona Cardinals,

"The Tip" against San Fran..

"The Pick" against Houston.....

Russells coming out party against Chicago...

The choke against Miami.....

Sidney Rice long bomb against the Pats....

In the past few years, we have played a lot of close games. We have won most of them, but also lost a couple. This year, we've lost more and won less. It's really no different then in years past. Because we are 5-5, we tend to view the negatives more often than the positives. Our team is IMHO the most balanced team in the NFL. Teams constantly play us like its their SuperBowl and we just keep chucking away.

No team has been able to blow out this current team. NO TEAM! Until that day happens, I will always believe we are the best!

Click to expand...

mostly true there is a difference though, this years oline is the worst in football at pass protection. Prior to this in the Wilson era the worse was 24th. Huge difference.

He has been sacked a grand total of 4 times in the past 3 games combined.

Lets let it play out a bit. They are getting better, as Pete said they would.

morgulon1 · Nov 25, 2015

Great post. I think this team has some fight left in them. I feel like they just haven't been clicking together in the previous games , and even then we had chance after chance to beat these "elite" teams that the experts fawn over. To listen to Al Michaels and Collingsworth gush profound love for Carson Palmer makes me laugh. We had the cardinals just like we had the Bengals, just like we had the damn Panthers.

As the OP stated , we play a lot of close games and up until this season, we win most of them. This year is just different . I think we go 4-2 the rest of the way and get in.

The way this year has gone down, that would be a bonus. We've been spoiled.

Hawks46 · Nov 25, 2015

Anthony!":3gyd8x1j said:
ApnaHawk":3gyd8x1j said:

Last year's victory against Green Bay,

The first 3 quarters against Carolina,

The "who is their qb again" Arizona Cardinals,

"The Tip" against San Fran..

"The Pick" against Houston.....

Russells coming out party against Chicago...

The choke against Miami.....

Sidney Rice long bomb against the Pats....

In the past few years, we have played a lot of close games. We have won most of them, but also lost a couple. This year, we've lost more and won less. It's really no different then in years past. Because we are 5-5, we tend to view the negatives more often than the positives. Our team is IMHO the most balanced team in the NFL. Teams constantly play us like its their SuperBowl and we just keep chucking away.

No team has been able to blow out this current team. NO TEAM! Until that day happens, I will always believe we are the best!

Click to expand...

mostly true there is a difference though, this years oline is the worst in football at pass protection. Prior to this in the Wilson era the worse was 24th. Huge difference.

We also have a worse points differential, which means overall we're barely winning our games, and also barely losing them. We also are giving up more points on defense, and have blown more (and larger) 4th quarter leads.

It's not merely a case of getting a few lucky bounces. We're not as good of a team, and that shows in those close plays that the OP is referencing.

Tech Worlds · Nov 25, 2015

One difference is is that we are no longer bullies. Nobody seams intimidated by our defense this year.

ApnaHawk · Nov 25, 2015

Tech Worlds":1sp3oxuz said:
One difference is is that we are no longer bullies. Nobody seams intimidated by our defense this year.

It's only going to take a single game. Once this Hawks team plays a complete game this season, the whole NFL will be put back on notice again.

We've been playing horrible football according to our standards and yet these supposed "elite" teams are barely beating us. No one has made statement against us, but we will to someone

Anthony! · Nov 26, 2015

Hawkpower":2gb789h0 said:
Anthony!":2gb789h0 said:

ApnaHawk":2gb789h0 said:

Last year's victory against Green Bay,

The first 3 quarters against Carolina,

The "who is their qb again" Arizona Cardinals,

"The Tip" against San Fran..

"The Pick" against Houston.....

Russells coming out party against Chicago...

The choke against Miami.....

Sidney Rice long bomb against the Pats....

In the past few years, we have played a lot of close games. We have won most of them, but also lost a couple. This year, we've lost more and won less. It's really no different then in years past. Because we are 5-5, we tend to view the negatives more often than the positives. Our team is IMHO the most balanced team in the NFL. Teams constantly play us like its their SuperBowl and we just keep chucking away.

No team has been able to blow out this current team. NO TEAM! Until that day happens, I will always believe we are the best!

Click to expand...

mostly true there is a difference though, this years oline is the worst in football at pass protection. Prior to this in the Wilson era the worse was 24th. Huge difference.

Click to expand...

He has been sacked a grand total of 4 times in the past 3 games combined.

Lets let it play out a bit. They are getting better, as Pete said they would.

Agreed but remember sack sacks are only part of it, hits, and hurries are huge. The game before SF he only got sacks d2 times but had over 17 hits and hurries. SF game much better all around.

Anthony! · Nov 26, 2015

ApnaHawk":n1hf89p1 said:
Tech Worlds":n1hf89p1 said:

One difference is is that we are no longer bullies. Nobody seams intimidated by our defense this year.

Click to expand...

It's only going to take a single game. Once this Hawks team plays a complete game this season, the whole NFL will be put back on notice again.

We've been playing horrible football according to our standards and yet these supposed "elite" teams are barely beating us. No one has made statement against us, but we will to someone

Good point but it needs to be a complete game against a legit team, SF does not count.

Rob12 · Nov 26, 2015

Anthony!":3srcd5dh said:
ApnaHawk":3srcd5dh said:

Last year's victory against Green Bay,

The first 3 quarters against Carolina,

The "who is their qb again" Arizona Cardinals,

"The Tip" against San Fran..

"The Pick" against Houston.....

Russells coming out party against Chicago...

The choke against Miami.....

Sidney Rice long bomb against the Pats....

In the past few years, we have played a lot of close games. We have won most of them, but also lost a couple. This year, we've lost more and won less. It's really no different then in years past. Because we are 5-5, we tend to view the negatives more often than the positives. Our team is IMHO the most balanced team in the NFL. Teams constantly play us like its their SuperBowl and we just keep chucking away.

No team has been able to blow out this current team. NO TEAM! Until that day happens, I will always believe we are the best!

Click to expand...

mostly true there is a difference though, this years oline is the worst in football at pass protection. Prior to this in the Wilson era the worse was 24th. Huge difference.

They're getting better, though. Here's to hoping that the line is a big focus in the offseason. It's been a tough year for them, but I don't think they've been put in the best position to succeed. But yeah, overall they have been sub par. I've noticed a marked improvement over the past few weeks, though.

Rob12 · Nov 26, 2015

Anthony!":2c8h87b1 said:
ApnaHawk":2c8h87b1 said:

Tech Worlds":2c8h87b1 said:

One difference is is that we are no longer bullies. Nobody seams intimidated by our defense this year.

Click to expand...

It's only going to take a single game. Once this Hawks team plays a complete game this season, the whole NFL will be put back on notice again.

We've been playing horrible football according to our standards and yet these supposed "elite" teams are barely beating us. No one has made statement against us, but we will to someone

Click to expand...

Good point but it needs to be a complete game against a legit team, SF does not count.

Agree with this.

You play who you play, and SF never posed a threat. There aren't supposed to be any gimmes in the NFL, but the Niners game was one.

I want to see them maintain and win convincingly against a good team. This week would be a great time for that.

Anthony! · Nov 26, 2015

Rob12":230qli3c said:
Anthony!":230qli3c said:

ApnaHawk":230qli3c said:

Last year's victory against Green Bay,

The first 3 quarters against Carolina,

The "who is their qb again" Arizona Cardinals,

"The Tip" against San Fran..

"The Pick" against Houston.....

Russells coming out party against Chicago...

The choke against Miami.....

Sidney Rice long bomb against the Pats....

In the past few years, we have played a lot of close games. We have won most of them, but also lost a couple. This year, we've lost more and won less. It's really no different then in years past. Because we are 5-5, we tend to view the negatives more often than the positives. Our team is IMHO the most balanced team in the NFL. Teams constantly play us like its their SuperBowl and we just keep chucking away.

No team has been able to blow out this current team. NO TEAM! Until that day happens, I will always believe we are the best!

Click to expand...

mostly true there is a difference though, this years oline is the worst in football at pass protection. Prior to this in the Wilson era the worse was 24th. Huge difference.

Click to expand...

They're getting better, though. Here's to hoping that the line is a big focus in the offseason. It's been a tough year for them, but I don't think they've been put in the best position to succeed. But yeah, overall they have been sub par. I've noticed a marked improvement over the past few weeks, though.

Agreed on all fronts.

Recon_Hawk · Nov 26, 2015

There's a lot of talk about one team being far and above better than the other, but the league is pretty equal (outside of terrible QB play). Even the "bad teams" have the talent elsewhere to win on any given day. When it comes down to it, there's usually a play or two or a call or two which dictate the win.

Popeyejones · Nov 26, 2015

ApnaHawk":js9jx0k9 said:
In the past few years, we have played a lot of close games. We have won most of them, but also lost a couple. This year, we've lost more and won less. It's really no different then in years past.

Two thoughts on this (the second of which clarifies that I'm not bashing the Hawks, as I think the first thought doesn't apply as much to them as it does to other teams).

Thought 1: What you've written is why the occasional detractors of the Seahawks write them off as "lucky." Statistically, over time, close games are almost a coin flip. Basically teams should win and lose an equal number of close games over time. So, people see the Seahawks of the last few years and see what you've seen: a team that has won most of its close games, and is fairly "lucky" for having done so. This year they've simply regressed back to the mean and are losing the close games too, this argument would go.

Thought 2: While I think "Thought 1" is true (and it doesn't matter what I "think", that 1 score games are mostly coin flips is statistically true) I think the Seahawks present a kind of special case, and "break" the rule more than practically any other team does. I'd basically argue that statistics be damned the Seahawks should win more close games than the average team.

The reason why is because of how they play. While winning more than their share of close games they were a run-first team with a dominant pass defense. Basically, they weren't dominating teams by blowing them out, they were dominating teams by suffocating them into submission and controlling the clock. Another way to put it is that over the last few years being down 17-10 at the start of the 4th quarter against the Hawks was a DRAMATICALLY different situation than being down 17-10 at the start of the 4th against other good teams. The Hawks were built to chew up half of the quarter just running the ball, and the pass defense prevented teams from fighting their way back when they had to think about how much time was left in the game.

Conclusion: While I think there's a bit of "luck" in the Hawks close games record over the past few seasons, I think the role it played has been, by some, DRAMATICALLY overstated as it doesn't really take into consideration how the Hawks beat teams compared to your typical team.

On the other side of the coin, this year, I think it's only PARTIALLY that their record in close games has regressed to the mean, but it's also that the pass defense has underperformed. We see this in games too. The Hawks have continued to play the way they've played, but in those close games in which they suffocated people into submission, instead, this year, people have been able to come back through passing the ball in the 4th quarter. Put another way, it's not just regression to the mean, but instead, the Hawks are also a more "typical" team this year due to their non-entirely dominant pass defense, and their "close game" record is also a reflection of that.

Basically I think a little bit of both is going on.

Seahawkfan80 · Nov 26, 2015

Popeyejones":3g80ugmk said:
ApnaHawk":3g80ugmk said:

In the past few years, we have played a lot of close games. We have won most of them, but also lost a couple. This year, we've lost more and won less. It's really no different then in years past.

Click to expand...

Two thoughts on this (the second of which clarifies that I'm not bashing the Hawks, as I think the first thought doesn't apply as much to them as it does to other teams).

Thought 1: What you've written is why the occasional detractors of the Seahawks write them off as "lucky." Statistically, over time, close games are almost a coin flip. Basically teams should win and lose an equal number of close games over time. So, people see the Seahawks of the last few years and see what you've seen: a team that has won most of its close games, and is fairly "lucky" for having done so. This year they've simply regressed back to the mean and are losing the close games too, this argument would go.

Thought 2: While I think "Thought 1" is true (and it doesn't matter what I "think", that 1 score games are mostly coin flips is statistically true) I think the Seahawks present a kind of special case, and "break" the rule more than practically any other team does. I'd basically argue that statistics be damned the Seahawks should win more close games than the average team.

The reason why is because of how they play. While winning more than their share of close games they were a run-first team with a dominant pass defense. Basically, they weren't dominating teams by blowing them out, they were dominating teams by suffocating them into submission and controlling the clock. Another way to put it is that over the last few years being down 17-10 at the start of the 4th quarter against the Hawks was a DRAMATICALLY different situation than being down 17-10 at the start of the 4th against other good teams. The Hawks were built to chew up half of the quarter just running the ball, and the pass defense prevented teams from fighting their way back when they had to think about how much time was left in the game.

Conclusion: While I think there's a bit of "luck" in the Hawks close games record over the past few seasons, I think the role it played has been, by some, DRAMATICALLY overstated as it doesn't really take into consideration how the Hawks beat teams compared to your typical team.

On the other side of the coin, this year, I think it's only PARTIALLY that their record in close games has regressed to the mean, but it's also that the pass defense has underperformed. We see this in games too. The Hawks have continued to play the way they've played, but in those close games in which they suffocated people into submission, instead, this year, people have been able to come back through passing the ball in the 4th quarter. Put another way, it's not just regression to the mean, but instead, the Hawks are also a more "typical" team this year due to their non-entirely dominant pass defense, and their "close game" record is also a reflection of that.

Basically I think a little bit of both is going on.

DAng....who is this guy?? Honestly well said. I would rather have this wisdom come from elsewhere. But since it came from you on this net, I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. It does fit the circumstances. Have a great day and Hope your team gets back to the way they need.

Go hawks.

Popeyejones · Nov 26, 2015

^^^ :lol: Thanks, man.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Hawkpower · Nov 26, 2015

Rob12":31xirqx4 said:
Anthony!":31xirqx4 said:

ApnaHawk":31xirqx4 said:

Tech Worlds":31xirqx4 said:

One difference is is that we are no longer bullies. Nobody seams intimidated by our defense this year.

Click to expand...

It's only going to take a single game. Once this Hawks team plays a complete game this season, the whole NFL will be put back on notice again.

We've been playing horrible football according to our standards and yet these supposed "elite" teams are barely beating us. No one has made statement against us, but we will to someone

Click to expand...

Good point but it needs to be a complete game against a legit team, SF does not count.

Click to expand...

Agree with this.

You play who you play, and SF never posed a threat. There aren't supposed to be any gimmes in the NFL, but the Niners game was one.

I want to see them maintain and win convincingly against a good team. This week would be a great time for that.

The same San Francisco team that beat a then 6-2 Atlanta team in their previous game and was only one game behind us in the standings coming in?

The niners arent good, but people are acting like they are an 0-16 squad with some of these posts.

Hawkpower · Nov 26, 2015

Anthony!":ml3y1q93 said:
ApnaHawk":ml3y1q93 said:

Tech Worlds":ml3y1q93 said:

One difference is is that we are no longer bullies. Nobody seams intimidated by our defense this year.

Click to expand...

It's only going to take a single game. Once this Hawks team plays a complete game this season, the whole NFL will be put back on notice again.

We've been playing horrible football according to our standards and yet these supposed "elite" teams are barely beating us. No one has made statement against us, but we will to someone

Click to expand...

Good point but it needs to be a complete game against a legit team, SF does not count.

Needs to be a complete game against a legit team before what? You can say they are playing better?

Why? Our line was at its worst against Detroit, they are no more "legit" than San Fran.

We know why you want to paint the line in the worst possible light each week, your motivation is clear. But if they keep their current data trend, they will likely end up "ranked" back in the 20's, right where they always do.

hawk45 · Nov 26, 2015

ApnaHawk":2v6urd5i said:
Tech Worlds":2v6urd5i said:

One difference is is that we are no longer bullies. Nobody seams intimidated by our defense this year.

Click to expand...

It's only going to take a single game. Once this Hawks team plays a complete game this season, the whole NFL will be put back on notice again.

We've been playing horrible football according to our standards and yet these supposed "elite" teams are barely beating us. No one has made statement against us, but we will to someone

The statement, made repeatedly against us, is that our secondary is there for the taking for a decent NFL quarterback. Even in Seattle. That is as dramatic a statement as it gets, especially since we can't win games without historically great defense and don't seem capable of adapting to lesser defensive play by raising offensive effectiveness yet.
The hope is that Lane or Shead or someone meets the minimum quality threshold opposite Sherman and that this becomes the silver bullet, allowing us to return to playing coverages we excel at, Sherman to go back to shitting down his side of the field, Kam to start having an impact, etc.
I don't say it's impossible, our pass rush should allow us to mask small flaws in the secondary, but it's a tad more complicated than needing to make a statement.
On offense I have far less faith that we will figure out how to operate against decent teams.

morgulon1 · Nov 26, 2015

Would you prefer to win a close game against Arizona or Detroit? And there is your answer

How quickly we forget....

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