28-0, 14-0, 20-0, 9-0 and 31-0.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 18, 2016

These are the five road playoff games under Carroll that we've fallen behind on.

Why?

Is it all the rah rah Pete screaming about we can't win games in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd quarter? Is it because Pete preaches it's not about starting, it's about finishing?

Well he's wrong, sometimes you do HAVE to start strong. Can't keep relying on insane come from behind wins because you finally wake up in the 2nd half.

So Pete either needs to figure this out, or change his philosophy of preaching this to his players, because yesterday it bit us in the ass, and it wasn't the first time. It's now a full blown issue.

Optimus25 · Jan 18, 2016

Two words. Starts with Darrell.

Optimus25 · Jan 18, 2016

Played from behind in home playoff games i remember.

Why you just singling out road?

400WattHPSHawk · Jan 18, 2016

Can't argue with your facts, but Pete isn't going to change one iota.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 18, 2016

Optimus25":2y8o8veo said:
Two words. Starts with Darrell.

It's not one player, coach or coordinator. IMO it's a systemic problem and starts with Pete.

He almost takes a perverse pleasure in dancing in the locker room after games yelling "CAN YOU WIN A GAME IN THE 1ST QUARTER?!.................."

That's all well and good, and he's right, a team should finish strong. But that doesn't mean the team should get their doors blown off seemingly every game falling behind relying on Russell to be perfect in 2nd halves to win against good teams, especially in the playoffs.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 18, 2016

Optimus25":y9gc9vyo said:
Played from behind in home playoff games i remember.

Why you just singling out road?

Because while it is an issue at home as well, it's a GIGANTIC issue on the road, as evident by my stats.

People keep blaming the road, time zones, travel, fatigue, etc...........but IMO it's 80% Pete. I love the guy, but holy crap this has to stop.

MexHawk · Jan 18, 2016

Completely agree, and I hope some reporter confronts him with this, or Paul Allen.

Seahawks1Fan · Jan 18, 2016

I really don't think it has anything to do with Pete's mantra about winning games in the 4th quarter although it sure feels that way on the road doesn't it?

I think it has more to do with insufficient game plans to start the game and we get behind early then either make the appropriate adjustments or simply put it Russell's hands and let him work his magic.

When we opened up on offense if the traditional 2 tight end set with a full back and Marshawn I knew we were in trouble.
The Panthers have a terrific middle of the defense and their weakness (if they have one) is their secondary (minus Norman of course), so I was thinking that we would come out in the spread formation and let Russell do his thing right from the start.

But no

Waited till we were 31 down before doing it.

So my opinion is that we just have inferior game plans to start a game, especially on the road but I do believe we've done this at home as well.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 18, 2016

Seahawks1Fan":1y9r91hj said:
So my opinion is that we just have inferior game plans to start a game, especially on the road but I do believe we've done this at home as well.

Pete even admits he likes to play close to the vest early, trust his defense, play conservative and see how the game unfolds before taking risks with the playcalling.

It's a defeatist approach to running an offense. Pete DID allow Russell and the offense to go nuts against the Cards in week 17 because that game really didn't matter............and look what happened? We destroyed them.

So I agree it's a little playcalling and game plan, but IMO it's more about how Pete coaches his players up to turn it on in the 4th quarter. Just have to figure out how to get them motivated earlier. idk how, but it's frustrating to watch over and over.

Hendo66 · Jan 18, 2016

Seahawks1Fan":73gfzhg5 said:
I really don't think it has anything to do with Pete's mantra about winning games in the 4th quarter although it sure feels that way on the road doesn't it?

I think it has more to do with insufficient game plans to start the game and we get behind early then either make the appropriate adjustments or simply put it Russell's hands and let him work his magic.

When we opened up on offense if the traditional 2 tight end set with a full back and Marshawn I knew we were in trouble.
The Panthers have a terrific middle of the defense and their weakness (if they have one) is their secondary (minus Norman of course), so I was thinking that we would come out in the spread formation and let Russell do his thing right from the start.

But no

Waited till we were 31 down before doing it.

So my opinion is that we just have inferior game plans to start a game, especially on the road but I do believe we've done this at home as well.

This!

Great point. All week it was talked about that Seattle had to spread Carolina's D out and hit them with the quick passing game then mix in the run to get them off balance. ML was out 8 weeks and they go right back to the usual game plan that didm;t work the 1st half of season. Bad game plan.

And yes, there is a huge problem that should not continue with all these ridiculously slow starts.

Optimus25 · Jan 18, 2016

Sgt. Largent":3f9vmm32 said:
Optimus25":3f9vmm32 said:

Two words. Starts with Darrell.

Click to expand...

It's not one player, coach or coordinator. IMO it's a systemic problem and starts with Pete.

He almost takes a perverse pleasure in dancing in the locker room after games yelling "CAN YOU WIN A GAME IN THE 1ST QUARTER?!.................."

That's all well and good, and he's right, a team should finish strong. But that doesn't mean the team should get their doors blown off seemingly every game falling behind relying on Russell to be perfect in 2nd halves to win against good teams, especially in the playoffs.

Carolinas D had the liberty of playing with house money after the fluke eighty yard run. They pinned their ears and were amped up.

We come out with a lame duck RO, when their secondary is banged up. Small abysmal failure that setup the scenario for the pick 6.

Nfccg vs niners. Start with a play action roll out, russ gets stripped by aldon Smith.

Why are you rolling out towards the fastest most dominate defensive player they have when you have zero data to that point as to whether or not he's over pursuing?

Nfccg vs pack. Train wreck. Looked like we hadn't watched one film to expose one weakness. Complete offensive failure.

Super bowl. The offensive game plan looks terrible. Resurrected by a guy who's so flukey he goes from probable sb mvp to guy who can't make a roster the next year. Completely, and unexpectedly saved Bevells ass.

We cannot move the chains in the early parts of big games, and it's been our downfall, only to be somehow carried to the promised land on russ's back time and time again.

I think your complaint is more valid for the play clock management, bad challenges, etc. Pete needs someone helping him out. The rah rah seems to slightly blind him to the discipline and game management issues that have plagued this team throughout his tenure.

But falling behind is a no brainer. We don't score. We don't even move the ball. We run pathetic opening series with no rhythm. We play into other teams strengths. We don't change our offense vs los Angeles in spite of numerous games where they dismantle Bevell. Time and again he tries the same thing.

Tech Worlds · Jan 18, 2016

I am sure Pete isn't trying to fall behind.

I am also sure that it bugs him more than it bugs us.

kf3339 · Jan 18, 2016

Sgt. Largent":em1yneq4 said:
Seahawks1Fan":em1yneq4 said:

So my opinion is that we just have inferior game plans to start a game, especially on the road but I do believe we've done this at home as well.

Click to expand...

Pete even admits he likes to play close to the vest early, trust his defense, play conservative and see how the game unfolds before taking risks with the playcalling.

It's a defeatist approach to running an offense. Pete DID allow Russell and the offense to go nuts against the Cards in week 17 because that game really didn't matter............and look what happened? We destroyed them.

So I agree it's a little playcalling and game plan, but IMO it's more about how Pete coaches his players up to turn it on in the 4th quarter. Just have to figure out how to get them motivated earlier. idk how, but it's frustrating to watch over and over.

I have to agree with this train of thought. But this is also an issue of how he looks at the season as well. The mantra of

" It's not how we start, but how we finish" is prevalent in both issues (season, games) and has cost us more than some may realize.

To me the only person that can confront PC on this is Paul Allen. The problem though is that he is not really a football guy at all. Allen's love first and foremost is basketball. By now I'm sure he loves the Hawks and his ownership, but I just don't see him asking PC to change. He didn't when Holmgren was imploding the last few years, and we all know where that ended up for the team.

So unless PA has suddenly became far more football focused this issue is not getting fixed.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 18, 2016

Tech Worlds":1dix519e said:
I am sure Pete isn't trying to fall behind.

I am also sure that it bugs him more than it bugs us.

Well there you go, end of conversation. Nothing more to see here.

Sorry man, not that easy to just flippantly cast off as a non issue. It IS an issue, and it cost us the game yesterday.

Tech Worlds · Jan 18, 2016

kf3339":1utaq1f2 said:
Sgt. Largent":1utaq1f2 said:

Seahawks1Fan":1utaq1f2 said:

So my opinion is that we just have inferior game plans to start a game, especially on the road but I do believe we've done this at home as well.

Click to expand...

Pete even admits he likes to play close to the vest early, trust his defense, play conservative and see how the game unfolds before taking risks with the playcalling.

It's a defeatist approach to running an offense. Pete DID allow Russell and the offense to go nuts against the Cards in week 17 because that game really didn't matter............and look what happened? We destroyed them.

So I agree it's a little playcalling and game plan, but IMO it's more about how Pete coaches his players up to turn it on in the 4th quarter. Just have to figure out how to get them motivated earlier. idk how, but it's frustrating to watch over and over.

Click to expand...

I have to agree with this train of thought. But this is also an issue of how he looks at the season as well. The mantra of

" It's not how we start, but how we finish" is prevalent in both issues (season, games) and has cost us more than some may realize.

To me the only person that can confront PC on this is Paul Allen. The problem though is that he is not really a football guy at all. Allen's love first and foremost is basketball. By now I'm sure he loves the Hawks and his ownership, but I just don't see him asking PC to change. He didn't when Holmgren was imploding the last few years, and we all know where that ended up for the team.

So unless PA has suddenly became far more football focused this issue is not getting fixed.

Ridiculous.

When Pete says "it's not how we start it's how we finish" he is just putting his usual positive spin on things.

That's all. He's trying to win every day.

There is no straighting him out because there's nothing to straighten out. Sometimes things don't go our way. But you know what? Since Petes been here they usually do.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 18, 2016

Tech Worlds":2ej4e68e said:
There is no straighting him out because there's nothing to straighten out. Sometimes things don't go our way. But you know what? Since Petes been here they usually do.

You're delusional dude. Then explain my thread line of being that far behind in EVERY road playoff game.

Also explain how we NEVER start fast in 90% of our regular season games. It's systemic, and it is a problem, whether you think so or not. The stats don't lie.

bandiger · Jan 18, 2016

Sgt. Largent":195mhxnr said:
Tech Worlds":195mhxnr said:

I am sure Pete isn't trying to fall behind.

I am also sure that it bugs him more than it bugs us.

Click to expand...

Well there you go, end of conversation. Nothing more to see here.

Sorry man, not that easy to just flippantly cast off as a non issue. It IS an issue, and it cost us the game yesterday.

Let's just call it a flaw in Carroll's system. Hard to even blame one specific offensive coach since the offense is headed by two coaches.

Bobblehead · Jan 18, 2016

Optimus25":2qzz5tl6 said:
Sgt. Largent":2qzz5tl6 said:

Optimus25":2qzz5tl6 said:

Two words. Starts with Darrell.

Click to expand...

It's not one player, coach or coordinator. IMO it's a systemic problem and starts with Pete.

He almost takes a perverse pleasure in dancing in the locker room after games yelling "CAN YOU WIN A GAME IN THE 1ST QUARTER?!.................."

That's all well and good, and he's right, a team should finish strong. But that doesn't mean the team should get their doors blown off seemingly every game falling behind relying on Russell to be perfect in 2nd halves to win against good teams, especially in the playoffs.

Click to expand...

Carolinas D had the liberty of playing with house money after the fluke eighty yard run. They pinned their ears and were amped up.

We come out with a lame duck RO, when their secondary is banged up. Small abysmal failure that setup the scenario for the pick 6.

Nfccg vs niners. Start with a play action roll out, russ gets stripped by aldon Smith.

Why are you rolling out towards the fastest most dominate defensive player they have when you have zero data to that point as to whether or not he's over pursuing?

Nfccg vs pack. Train wreck. Looked like we hadn't watched one film to expose one weakness. Complete offensive failure.

Super bowl. The offensive game plan looks terrible. Resurrected by a guy who's so flukey he goes from probable sb mvp to guy who can't make a roster the next year. Completely, and unexpectedly saved Bevells ass.

We cannot move the chains in the early parts of big games, and it's been our downfall, only to be somehow carried to the promised land on russ's back time and time again.

I think your complaint is more valid for the play clock management, bad challenges, etc. Pete needs someone helping him out. The rah rah seems to slightly blind him to the discipline and game management issues that have plagued this team throughout his tenure.

But falling behind is a no brainer. We don't score. We don't even move the ball. We run pathetic opening series with no rhythm. We play into other teams strengths. We don't change our offense vs los Angeles in spite of numerous games where they dismantle Bevell. Time and again he tries the same thing.

Yep, it didn't matter who the coach was, who the OC was, Panthers were ready to play, we weren't... Radio guy said you could see it in practice, Panthers were pumped and busting out, while the Hawks were just meh.

Optimus25 · Jan 18, 2016

Tech Worlds":f76b1y6f said:
kf3339":f76b1y6f said:

Sgt. Largent":f76b1y6f said:

Seahawks1Fan":f76b1y6f said:

So my opinion is that we just have inferior game plans to start a game, especially on the road but I do believe we've done this at home as well.

Click to expand...

Pete even admits he likes to play close to the vest early, trust his defense, play conservative and see how the game unfolds before taking risks with the playcalling.

It's a defeatist approach to running an offense. Pete DID allow Russell and the offense to go nuts against the Cards in week 17 because that game really didn't matter............and look what happened? We destroyed them.

So I agree it's a little playcalling and game plan, but IMO it's more about how Pete coaches his players up to turn it on in the 4th quarter. Just have to figure out how to get them motivated earlier. idk how, but it's frustrating to watch over and over.

Click to expand...

I have to agree with this train of thought. But this is also an issue of how he looks at the season as well. The mantra of

" It's not how we start, but how we finish" is prevalent in both issues (season, games) and has cost us more than some may realize.

To me the only person that can confront PC on this is Paul Allen. The problem though is that he is not really a football guy at all. Allen's love first and foremost is basketball. By now I'm sure he loves the Hawks and his ownership, but I just don't see him asking PC to change. He didn't when Holmgren was imploding the last few years, and we all know where that ended up for the team.

So unless PA has suddenly became far more football focused this issue is not getting fixed.

Click to expand...

Ridiculous.

When Pete says "it's not how we start it's how we finish" he is just putting his usual positive spin on things.

That's all. He's trying to win every day.

There is no straighting him out because there's nothing to straighten out. Sometimes things don't go our way. But you know what? Since Petes been here they usually do.

I generally agree with the In Pete We Trust camp.

But OP is right. This needs turned around. Starting games must be a point of emphasis next season. The wild come from behind stuff sometimes equates to luck as much as anything. And it relies on absolute perfection.

Talking about it here doesn't change a thing?. Well, better than it going unsaid.

Ad Hawk · Jan 18, 2016

It was visible in the pictures pre-game, players on the way to the game from the hotel. I told my son they looked disinterested (though some thought they looked mad or focused). I didn't see any joy, any excitement. The panthers were thrilled to be playing, and we weren't.

I somehow doubt such a pall comes from Pete, but who knows what was said in pre-team meetings and practice.

To the OP, you must explain the presence of games in which we haven't fallen behind, then. And how many of the games you do point out did we eventually win? You can't pick the stats you want and not explain what the mean in broader context.

28-0, 14-0, 20-0, 9-0 and 31-0.

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