Seen this Ranking of under 30 QB's

chris98251 · Jan 26, 2016

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...r-30/ar-BBoJSLz?li=BBnbklx&ocid=edgsp#page=10

hawksfansinceday1 · Jan 26, 2016

Popeye in to tell us why Newton, Luck, et. al are better in 5-4-3-2.....

GeekHawk · Jan 26, 2016

Jaws says that #1 is Krapsondick.

Zebulon Dak · Jan 26, 2016

Anybody who thinks otherwise is lying to themselves or has a problem on the inside of their brain.

Rob12 · Jan 27, 2016

It's close between RW and Cam, but the article got it right.

HawKnPeppa · Jan 27, 2016

Rob12":zsm8uef4 said:
It's close between RW and Cam, but the article got it right.

Container Cat will soon show up to refute this. No way Russ could edge out his beloved Cam.

Rob12 · Jan 27, 2016

HawKnPeppa":151k4lj3 said:
Rob12":151k4lj3 said:

It's close between RW and Cam, but the article got it right.

Click to expand...

Container Cat will soon show up to refute this. No way Russ could edge out his beloved Cam.

The resume is all we need.

Cam was great this year, and deserves the MVP. But if I'm a GM and starting a team, it's not Cam I am taking. It's Russ. He's on a historic pace, and is a first ballot HoF'er at this point. He's going to be the greatest Seahawk ever with at least a couple rings before all is said and done.

Overseasfan · Jan 27, 2016

Russ is the best QB out of these guys simply because he's been the only one to perform at a high level every single year.

Cam was great this year but before this he was average at best. Luck showed some good football in the past and his ceiling might just be higher than Russ but if you play like how he did this season he shouldn't even have been on the list. Meanwhile Russ has been performing great for 4 years and improving all the time still.

HawKnPeppa · Jan 27, 2016

Rob12":3ed60he0 said:
HawKnPeppa":3ed60he0 said:

Rob12":3ed60he0 said:

It's close between RW and Cam, but the article got it right.

Click to expand...

Container Cat will soon show up to refute this. No way Russ could edge out his beloved Cam.

Click to expand...

The resume is all we need.

Cam was great this year, and deserves the MVP. But if I'm a GM and starting a team, it's not Cam I am taking. It's Russ. He's on a historic pace, and is a first ballot HoF'er at this point. He's going to be the greatest Seahawk ever with at least a couple rings before all is said and done.

Oh, I'm not taking anything away from Cam. He's taking some steps that I was starting to doubt he'd ever take, from leadership and maturity aspect. It does, however, help to have a D that can more than keep you in a game and an OL that Russ can only have wet dreams about. That's what's even more mind-boggling about RW's performance this season.

HawKnPeppa · Jan 27, 2016

Overseasfan":6vf4byic said:
Russ is the best QB out of these guys simply because he's been the only one to perform at a high level every single year.

Cam was great this year but before this he was average at best. Luck showed some good football in the past and his ceiling might just be higher than Russ but if you play like how he did this season he shouldn't even have been on the list. Meanwhile Russ has been performing great for 4 years and improving all the time still.

Cam's breakout performance is no doubt partially due to improvement in his level of play; however, his OL protection was also at an all-time high. I wonder if we'll ever see Russ afforded that?

I disagree about the higher upside with Luck. I think people derive that conclusion from his physical stature and strong arm. Luck would surely do better behind a more worthy OL, but I'd put his ceiling at something similar to Ben Roethlisberger. That is by no means an insult, but Russ has the tools and work ethic to go much further, IMO.

Let's go down the list of attributes first

Durability: Luck has more size, but how many games has Russ missed because of injury (knock on wood). Russ might be smaller, but he has the thickness of a badger and is one of the smartest QB's in the league at avoiding big hits.

Mobility: Advantage Wilson; no need for explanation.

Efficiency: Russ has easily been more efficient than Luck in the NFL, as he has been in college, and RW has been behind some OLs that are just as bad or worse than what Andrew has been playing behind. Andrew has always been somewhat of a pick machine.

Pocket Passer vs Running QB: I think Russell has silenced most critics regarding his play from the pocket this season, and has surpassed anything Luck has done so far.

Composure: I'd say that's a stalemate. Neither is easily rattled. Same with pocket presence, although Luck is more willing to 'climb' the pocket at this point.

'It' factor: Both QB have 'it' in spades, but Russell brings an uncanny ability to create on the fly and escape when needed. He brings 'Magician' levels of 'it,' when the situation seems completely impossible.

Of all of the factors listed, which of them (other than mobility) do you see regressing or not advancing any further with Russ, and what makes you think Luck will suddenly catch, or surpass RW in the areas he lags by a significant margin? This brings me to a factor I didn't list: Mental toughness/determination to be great. With Russell's mindset, how likely is it he allows any of the above factors to stagnate? He will force improvement by sheer will if nothing else.

I disagree with up side argument, just as I do with almost any reasoning I can imagine to support it.

Throwdown · Jan 27, 2016

No Blake Bortles huh?

HawKnPeppa · Jan 27, 2016

Throwdown":2vpljyrv said:
No Blake Bortles huh?

No Kirk "How'd ya like that" Cousins either.

Seahwkgal · Jan 27, 2016

I read the opening page ranking Russ #1 but when I click the "next" icon, it goes to an article about Peyton Manning. Where is the rest of the rankings of this article?

Popeyejones · Jan 27, 2016

hawksfansinceday1":2rxm7rn5 said:
Popeye in to tell us why Newton, Luck, et. al are better in 5-4-3-2.....

Single White Female much?

:lol: at an article that ranks Wilson #1 still leading to a whole mess of defensiveness and mock-victimization at the hands of invisible monsters.

I think they get the top three right, although I think arguing over order on those top three is a waste of time; they're all really good.

After that the list goes to crap, IMO.

Dalton: Eh, it will take more than two thirds of a great year with an offense that's totally stacked at every position and an OC who was the hottest candidate on the HC market for me to believe in Dalton.

Carr: Could get there, but not there yet. Jury is still out for me on if he can turn into an elite QB or is just a significantly superior version of Alex Smith.

Bridgewater: LOL. No. He has way too many limitations you need to scheme around to belong anywhere close to this position.

Stafford: This article has gotta be click bait. It's like they're not even trying.

Tannehill: Seriously? After the top 3 it's like they're just stacking the list with guys who have moderately high floors and low ceilings.

Winston: Can get behind this one, as his problem are all things that can be developed, and should develop. They're the types of things that can take a guy into his late 20s to really nail, so people in the next few years will probably complain about his plateau, but they'll be missing the point. He should be #5 or #6 IMO.

PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE DESERVING OF BEING ON THIS LIST THAN SOME OF THESE GUYS:

Bortles: Should be at #4 IMO. The kid is 23 and made a huge jump from year 1 to year 2. Still things to clean up, but again, he's 23 years old and already has two years in the league. Sky's the limit for this kid.

Mariota: Dealt with injuries and played in an offense that pandered to him, but the flashes and raw materials are there to make his upside leapfrog up into the top five or six.

Cousins: Needs to do it for a full year, but seems to have all the pieces.

Tyrod Taylor: Very protected in his offense and also dealt with injuries, but on a per-pass basis (plus his run threat) this guy seriously looked like one of the best QBs in the league. Small sample sizes can always be deceiving, but it's just really hard not to like him.

My rankings would be:

TIER 1: The Junior Veterans (in alphabetical order): Luck, Newton, Wilson

TIER 2: The Sky's the Limit Kids (in alphabetical order): Bortles, Mariota, Winston

TIER 3: Flashes of Something Big, But Major Questions Remain (in alphabetical order): Carr, Dalton, Cousins, Taylor

TIER 4: Future Game Managers of America (in alphabetical order): Bridgewater, Tannehill

TIER 5: I Had a Great Second Half of the Year, So People Forget that There Was Major (and Legitimate) Talk of Cutting Me and Starting Over: Matt Stafford.

RichNhansom · Jan 27, 2016

HawKnPeppa":2kn3owgz said:
Rob12":2kn3owgz said:

HawKnPeppa":2kn3owgz said:

Rob12":2kn3owgz said:

It's close between RW and Cam, but the article got it right.

Click to expand...

Container Cat will soon show up to refute this. No way Russ could edge out his beloved Cam.

Click to expand...

The resume is all we need.

Cam was great this year, and deserves the MVP. But if I'm a GM and starting a team, it's not Cam I am taking. It's Russ. He's on a historic pace, and is a first ballot HoF'er at this point. He's going to be the greatest Seahawk ever with at least a couple rings before all is said and done.

Click to expand...

Oh, I'm not taking anything away from Cam. He's taking some steps that I was starting to doubt he'd ever take, from leadership and maturity aspect. It does, however, help to have a D that can more than keep you in a game and an OL that Russ can only have wet dreams about. That's what's even more mind-boggling about RW's performance this season.

Agreed. I think it's pretty obvious if Newton's O-line regresses so will he. What would Cam look like with a bad O-line and Olsen out?

Cam showed much growth this year but I'm not ready to put him on RW's level just yet. He needs to prove he can do it behind any line even one of the worst and do it consistently year in and year out before I would consider him elite.

Overseasfan · Jan 27, 2016

Seahwkgal":3smco0ng said:
I read the opening page ranking Russ #1 but when I click the "next" icon, it goes to an article about Peyton Manning. Where is the rest of the rankings of this article?

You can see at the bottom that it's page 10/10 of the article. Click previous and go from 1 to 10.

WilsonMVP · Jan 27, 2016

Popeyejones":3gmzpk1n said:
hawksfansinceday1":3gmzpk1n said:

Popeye in to tell us why Newton, Luck, et. al are better in 5-4-3-2.....

Click to expand...

Single White Female much?

:lol: at an article that ranks Wilson #1 still leading to a whole mess of defensiveness and mock-victimization at the hands of invisible monsters.

I think they get the top three right, although I think arguing over order on those top three is a waste of time; they're all really good.

After that the list goes to crap, IMO.

Dalton: Eh, it will take more than two thirds of a great year with an offense that's totally stacked at every position and an OC who was the hottest candidate on the HC market for me to believe in Dalton.

Carr: Could get there, but not there yet. Jury is still out for me on if he can turn into an elite QB or is just a significantly superior version of Alex Smith.

Bridgewater: LOL. No. He has way too many limitations you need to scheme around to belong anywhere close to this position.

Stafford: This article has gotta be click bait. It's like they're not even trying.

Tannehill: Seriously? After the top 3 it's like they're just stacking the list with guys who have moderately high floors and low ceilings.

Winston: Can get behind this one, as his problem are all things that can be developed, and should develop. They're the types of things that can take a guy into his late 20s to really nail, so people in the next few years will probably complain about his plateau, but they'll be missing the point. He should be #5 or #6 IMO.

PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE DESERVING OF BEING ON THIS LIST THAN SOME OF THESE GUYS:

Bortles: Should be at #4 IMO. The kid is 23 and made a huge jump from year 1 to year 2. Still things to clean up, but again, he's 23 years old and already has two years in the league. Sky's the limit for this kid.

Mariota: Dealt with injuries and played in an offense that pandered to him, but the flashes and raw materials are there to make his upside leapfrog up into the top five or six.

Cousins: Needs to do it for a full year, but seems to have all the pieces.

Tyrod Taylor: Very protected in his offense and also dealt with injuries, but on a per-pass basis (plus his run threat) this guy seriously looked like one of the best QBs in the league. Small sample sizes can always be deceiving, but it's just really hard not to like him.

My rankings would be:

TIER 1: The Junior Veterans (in alphabetical order): Luck, Newton, Wilson

TIER 2: The Sky's the Limit Kids (in alphabetical order): Bortles, Mariota, Winston

TIER 3: Flashes of Something Big, But Major Questions Remain (in alphabetical order): Carr, Dalton, Cousins, Taylor

TIER 4: Future Game Managers of America (in alphabetical order): Bridgewater, Tannehill

TIER 5: I Had a Great Second Half of the Year, So People Forget that There Was Major (and Legitimate) Talk of Cutting Me and Starting Over: Matt Stafford.

I disagree about Bridgewater. He just turned 23 in November and has allready played 2 years so hes still really young. I dont think Wilson came into the NFL until he was 23 1/2 years old. Their Oline was not very good as evidence by our game against them, and they were missing their starting C and RT all year. They ran the ball on first down more than any other team...I think it was like 67% of the time. That doesnt help a QB when AP gets stuffed in the backfield and its constantly 2nd and 3rd and long.

I have seen enough of him to know he will be a pretty good starter in the NFL. I dont think he will ever be a superstar QB but he can be good enough to win multiple superbowls

Seymour · Jan 27, 2016

Rob12":m9oj3tup said:
It's close between RW and Cam, but the article got it right.

I would say that it was close between those 2, but only this season. If you take into account their entire NFL career, then not so close IMO (not a tough call to make).

Popeyejones · Jan 27, 2016

WilsonMVP":z72zgso1 said:
I disagree about Bridgewater. He just turned 23 in November and has allready played 2 years so hes still really young. I dont think Wilson came into the NFL until he was 23 1/2 years old. Their Oline was not very good as evidence by our game against them, and they were missing their starting C and RT all year. They ran the ball on first down more than any other team...I think it was like 67% of the time. That doesnt help a QB when AP gets stuffed in the backfield and its constantly 2nd and 3rd and long.

I have seen enough of him to know he will be a pretty good starter in the NFL. I dont think he will ever be a superstar QB but he can be good enough to win multiple superbowls

Yeah, he's young and still has a ton of time to clean up his game, but getting older isn't going to help him drive the ball on out routes and across his body when he needs to.

I think arm strength and zip are probably two of the more overrated things that are talked about with QBs, but Bridgewater to me (and as was the knock on him coming out which caused him to fall), is just below the Mendoza Line where it actually becomes a problem and affects that type of pass offense you run and plays you can call (see: Broncos offense with Manning at QB this year; Chiefs offense; shades of this in the Dolphins offense and Raiders offense although not nearly as bad).

WilsonMVP · Jan 27, 2016

Popeyejones":p4w2sexf said:
WilsonMVP":p4w2sexf said:

I disagree about Bridgewater. He just turned 23 in November and has allready played 2 years so hes still really young. I dont think Wilson came into the NFL until he was 23 1/2 years old. Their Oline was not very good as evidence by our game against them, and they were missing their starting C and RT all year. They ran the ball on first down more than any other team...I think it was like 67% of the time. That doesnt help a QB when AP gets stuffed in the backfield and its constantly 2nd and 3rd and long.

I have seen enough of him to know he will be a pretty good starter in the NFL. I dont think he will ever be a superstar QB but he can be good enough to win multiple superbowls

Click to expand...

Yeah, he's young and still has a ton of time to clean up his game, but getting older isn't going to help him drive the ball on out routes and across his body when he needs to.

I think arm strength and zip are probably two of the more overrated things that are talked about with QBs, but Bridgewater to me (and as was the knock on him coming out which caused him to fall), is just below the Mendoza Line where it actually becomes a problem and affects that type of pass offense you run and plays you can call (see: Broncos offense with Manning at QB this year; Chiefs offense; shades of this in the Dolphins offense and Raiders offense although not nearly as bad).

I think he has a lot of work to do on deep routes but he seems to have plenty of zip on short and intermediate routes when he needs to throw them. His arm is good enough IMO. The thing with him is everything else outside of arm strength seems to be pretty good. He has really good pocket poise, good decision making, understanding protections, and really good at checking down when needed.

Seen this Ranking of under 30 QB's

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