Kuechly vs wagner

Remember when they were in the same conversation. Not this year. Need a better scheme. Bobby is competitive with Luke.

Previously I thought Wagner was better but it's not even a conversation.

Wagner is great LB but he didn't play as well in 2015 as he did in 2013 and 2014. I believe the loss of Ken Norton Jr has impacted his game a bit. He was solid but didn't impact the games as much in 2015 as he did in previous seasons.

Once he got paid, it seemed the fire was gone a bit.

Kuechly, on the other hand, seems to have ramped up his intensity after he got his contract. It's hard. Tell yourself you'd work as hard or harder if you all of the sudden got so rich you could set up your family 3 generations deep. Then do it. Most people - not likely.

Bobby played about Average this year- you can not compare him with Luke in any way the last year or two- they are not even close

Marlin Man":b98b1v86 said:

Bobby played about Average this year- you can not compare him with Luke in any way the last year or two- they are not even close

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Having Star and Short in front of you helps a ton.

Its a disrespect to kuechly that this is even a conversation!

The 1% of me that actually wanted the Panthers to win today was because of kuechly. What a player!

Let's not sugar coat it...

Wagner was not good this season. He was a ghost.

And yet it was Kuechly that was mowed over for the game winning TD today in the Super bowl. LK is a great player, but I think he's a bit overrated, Both pick 6's in this playoffs were gifts.

FlyingGreg":3veolmc9 said:

Let's not sugar coat it...

Wagner was not good this season. He was a ghost.

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Let's not exaggerate either.

Wagner was good this season. Very good even. But not as good as he had been in the past.

McGruff":1xh14z4q said:

FlyingGreg":1xh14z4q said:

Let's not sugar coat it...

Wagner was not good this season. He was a ghost.

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Let's not exaggerate either.

Wagner was good this season. Very good even. But not as good as he had been in the past.

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I agree. LK was better this year. BW needs to be more of a factor.

I took it as being part of the scheme that Richards implemented.

Idk both are great but i think luke was better this year. Wagner at his best though might be better.

Wagner is an outstanding MLB, and a clear Pro Bowl level of player (even if his year this year regressed a bit). I'll take Wagner over just abuot any other MLB out there...

The one exception is Kuechly - who is clearly the best MLB in the game today in my eyes.

Keuchly is a WLB posing as a MLB. His college tape complaint that he gets a lot of tackles downfield was legit early on. He put on weight to get up to 238 for the draft and his arms aren't that long. He has problems at the POA and that continues to this day. Even today in this game you saw him driven back and try to go around blocks and it hurt him. This was REALLY easy to see when Keuchly was a rook. Even in his rookie game against the Hawks he was put on his back 3 times. That wasn't uncommon. In his sophmore offseason, Carolina drafted two of the most talented DTs in the draft and they've generally tried to keep Keuchly clean, where he's at his best in space.

Wagner is a different LB. He's in the mold of a true actual +Mike LBer. When PC got here Tatupu was really excited at first until he had that first call with PC where stated that he'd have an A gap in that 4-3 Under. Everyone has to be responsible for a gap. Obviously Tatupu was tough enough to handle that, but having en emphasis on that slowed down his reads and his lack of strait line speed; already slowing from many hard seasons, really caught up with him.

Enter Wagner post Heater.

This is a guy who can do that same thing, that same emphasis of plugging a gap with power and length, and still have the athletic ability to get back in coverage and make a play on the ball because of sheer explosiveness. Not unlike Bowman is or was in SF. These guys are the real true elite Mike LBers in this league. They don't really have a weakness.

Now, if you were asking me if I'd want Kuechly or Wagner at WLB.....that'd be a better question. Keuchly has elite understanding of angles in space, which is where a WLB really shows his value in basically any type of 4-3 defense.

If I'm picking a Mike where I don't know what style of defense is going to be, I go with Wagner in an extremely easy decision because of scheme diversity. The only backer I MIGHT consider; depending on season, I would consider over Wagner would be Bowman, but I don't really know how much that horrific injury really hurt him in the long run. Keuchly in a Hawks uni wouldn't be nearly as impressive to what he and Thomas Davis have the luxury of in Carolina.

Part of what makes the NFL fun is that you can have an interesting conversation about this stuff. You can't just compare expected wins and call it a day because the players and scheme around both athletes make up a huge part of the discussion.

Too much of our DLine play this year depended on Bennett and Avril. They're outplaying their contracts in a big way but I suspect we spend three of our four first day picks on defense this year despite all the clamoring for drafting OL, OL, OL, OL.

I like to call Luke for fun, "Weakly Kuechly."

But he's pretty much the opposite.

He's the best Mike Backer in the game and it's not even close.

Wagner is no where near Kuechly's level.

Kuechley reminds me of Patrick Willis. Willis can cover. Luke can as well. Don't believe me, remember that throw to Baldwin that Luke stopped?

Luke also got two pick 6 in the playoffs.

Wagner had a down year but even so at Wagner's best, it isn't even touching Luke's level.

northseahawk":35vmdypv said:

Its a disrespect to kuechly that this is even a conversation!

The 1% of me that actually wanted the Panthers to win today was because of kuechly. What a player!

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Really.......Short & Leiteiulei (or however the hell you spell it) have been opening up the offensive line all Season for Kuechly to run through.

Von Miller was the STAR of both Defenses today, Kuechly ?....meh.

AgentDib":1iaxiw7k said:

Part of what makes the NFL fun is that you can have an interesting conversation about this stuff. You can't just compare expected wins and call it a day because the players and scheme around both athletes make up a huge part of the discussion.

Too much of our DLine play this year depended on Bennett and Avril. They're outplaying their contracts in a big way but I suspect we spend three of our four first day picks on defense this year despite all the clamoring for drafting OL, OL, OL, OL.

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Yup! We need difference makers in the middle. Rubs and Bane are purely run pluggers and Hill was a noticable dropoff in our rotation this season. That's why SEA Scouts were swarming interior DL at E-W and Senior Bowl. Tweeners getting pushed around too much against stout OLs. Need some interior push.

TheLegendOfBoom":2t9eqloh said:

Wagner had a down year but even so at Wagner's best, it isn't even touching Luke's level.

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Hyperbole. They've had pretty close seasons prior to the last one.