Optimal scenario for our O-Line

Willyeye · Feb 23, 2016

The reality is, our salary cap situation is not good! We have 31 total Free Agents this year, 17 of them UFA's. That means we only have 22 returning players from last year's roster. We will likely have $30 million in cap space. Most of the 14 RFA's and ERFA's have to be re-signed for about $10 million, or we will have ZERO depth. We also need to save about 7 of that $30 million for our new draft class. That leaves us about $13 million in cap space to spend on UFA's including our own. We have what was considered to be 7 starters leaving in FA...Irvin, Okung, Mebane, Sweezy, Rubin, Lane and Kearse. If we were to sign just Okung and Sweezy for around $13 million, that would mean we lose all of our other 15 Free Agents, and have zero space to sign any FA's from other teams. The reality is, we have to let at least Irvin, Okung, Sweezy and Mebane walk (truth is, if the FO was planning on keeping any of these guys they'd have already been re-signed or extended). This would also double as our FA's lost that would qualify us for 4 Compensatory Draft Picks for 2017. The choices remaining would be for Rubin, Lane and Kearse...we could probably sign all three, but that again would leave us with no space for FA's from other teams, especially much-needed O-Linemen.

The problem with Okung is that he's been an injury magnet...even when he plays, he's playing through some kind of pain or injury. Is it really worth paying him like $8 million APY? Okung just hasn't been all that great the last couple of years...in 2015 Okung was even graded below average by PFF. I don't see a huge dropoff in Wilson's game when Bailey is replacing Okung either. Let Sweezy walk also...he's just not very good. Get 2 or 3 inexpensive veterans who have been cut or who haven't been signed by June 1...this way they won't count against our comp picks for 2017. Add 3 or 4 draftees for the O-Line. I'm kind of leaning toward a FA older veteran/younger backup Tackle to replace Okung; Glow to replace Sweezy; use the #26 pick for a starting O-Lineman if the right one is still available, or if not, trading down from # 26 to get an extra 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick. A trade down for #26 would give us 5 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds...a total of 10 picks. That would make it easy to pick 3 O-Linemen spread throughout the draft and still have 7 picks left for 2 DT, OLB, RB, CB, DE, WR.

Re-sign Lewis and Bailey, probably even Jeanpierre. Add at least 5 or 6 new O-Linemen through the draft and Free Agency. Start TC with Gilliam/FA/draftee, high pick draftee/Bailey/Britt, Lewis/FA/draftee, Glowinski/draftee, draftee/FA/Britt. They could still add Nowak, Sokoli, Jeanpierre, Poole and Pericak to the mix, giving them some 15 O-Line guys to compete in TC. Make a decision before preseason, and get an O-Line playing somewhat consistently by Week 1. If we use this strategy, I believe that we'd have a cohesive/better O-Line unit much earlier in the season than we did last year.

kearly · Feb 23, 2016

Draft picks have to make the team to get paid. Last year, Seattle drafted 8 players and five of them made the NFL roster. Most draft picks make barely any money by NFL standards, typically making about $400k to $500k in their first year over a full 16 game season. Seattle's financial commitment to incoming 2015 draft picks last year was roughly around $2.5 million.

That number is so low because Seattle didn't have a 1st round pick last year. If in 2016, Seattle actually uses their 1st round pick to draft a player at the #26 slot, it will cost them about roughly $1.6 million in 2016 cap space (last year's #26 pick cost $1.53 million).

So basically, you are looking at the team needing to save about $4 million for draft picks, maybe $5 million if their draft goes very well. And that number doesn't account for the savings created when a $400k rookie beats out a veteran making $1 million or more.

IIRC, Seattle has a policy of setting aside $5 million in cap space for non-free agent expenses. Draft picks, injury settlements, etc. Almost every year that PC/JS have been here, that amount of money has been enough (2010 being the obvious exception).

Assuming a $155 million base cap for the league, Seattle will have $29.5 million in space to start with assuming Lynch's signing bonus money is all paid this year. If that money is paid evenly over the next two years instead, then the Seahawks would have $32 million in space. Subtract the non free-agent expenses ($5 million) and you'd have $24.5 million to $27 million to spend on free agency or contract extensions.

Of the players Seattle has hitting free agency, some of them are nice keeps, but none of them are priority re-signs. The closest might be Okung, but I think Seattle is going to move on from him. Not only is he incredibly injury prone, but even when healthy he had more than his usual share of rough outings last year. I think if Seattle wanted him as badly as some think, they would have extended him last offseason.

I think Sweezy could be back, and maybe at a price that will irritate a lot of people. I'm rooting for him to return on the cheap.

I do think Seattle will spend most of their available money on signing their own players back, or by handing out extensions to guys like Doug Baldwin. Maybe they do something very small for Bennett and Chancellor to keep them under good behavior for one more year.

But I also think Seattle will be open minded to chasing (assumed to be) free agent options such as Alex Mack or Cameron Wake or Mario Williams. Not saying they land any of those players, but would they at least be in the mix? I think they would.

As far as the OL goes, honestly... I give up. I just don't trust Tom Cable to develop guys and I hate how their draft profile seems to be all over the place. A starting line with 5 greenhorns next year is my worst nightmare.

He's done well with veterans though, I hope the FO gives Cable some veterans to work with this year. It's probably not an accident that his best OL in Seattle was in 2012. Okung-McQuistan-Unger-Sweezy-Breno. Four vets and one rook.

firebee · Feb 23, 2016

Willyeye":12705opf said:
The reality is, our salary cap situation is not good! We have 31 total Free Agents this year, 17 of them UFA's. That means we only have 22 returning players from last year's roster. We will likely have $30 million in cap space. Most of the 14 RFA's and ERFA's have to be re-signed for about $10 million, or we will have ZERO depth. We also need to save about 7 of that $30 million for our new draft class. That leaves us about $13 million in cap space to spend on UFA's including our own. We have what was considered to be 7 starters leaving in FA...Irvin, Okung, Mebane, Sweezy, Rubin, Lane and Kearse. If we were to sign just Okung and Sweezy for around $13 million, that would mean we lose all of our other 15 Free Agents, and have zero space to sign any FA's from other teams. The reality is, we have to let at least Irvin, Okung, Sweezy and Mebane walk (truth is, if the FO was planning on keeping any of these guys they'd have already been re-signed or extended). This would also double as our FA's lost that would qualify us for 4 Compensatory Draft Picks for 2017. The choices remaining would be for Rubin, Lane and Kearse...we could probably sign all three, but that again would leave us with no space for FA's from other teams, especially much-needed O-Linemen.

The problem with Okung is that he's been an injury magnet...even when he plays, he's playing through some kind of pain or injury. Is it really worth paying him like $8 million APY? Okung just hasn't been all that great the last couple of years...in 2015 Okung was even graded below average by PFF. I don't see a huge dropoff in Wilson's game when Bailey is replacing Okung either. Let Sweezy walk also...he's just not very good. Get 2 or 3 inexpensive veterans who have been cut or who haven't been signed by June 1...this way they won't count against our comp picks for 2017. Add 3 or 4 draftees for the O-Line. I'm kind of leaning toward a FA older veteran/younger backup Tackle to replace Okung; Glow to replace Sweezy; use the #26 pick for a starting O-Lineman if the right one is still available, or if not, trading down from # 26 to get an extra 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick. A trade down for #26 would give us 5 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds...a total of 10 picks. That would make it easy to pick 3 O-Linemen spread throughout the draft and still have 7 picks left for 2 DT, OLB, RB, CB, DE, WR.

Re-sign Lewis and Bailey, probably even Jeanpierre. Add at least 5 or 6 new O-Linemen through the draft and Free Agency. Start TC with Gilliam/FA/draftee, high pick draftee/Bailey/Britt, Lewis/FA/draftee, Glowinski/draftee, draftee/FA/Britt. They could still add Nowak, Sokoli, Jeanpierre, Poole and Pericak to the mix, giving them some 15 O-Line guys to compete in TC. Make a decision before preseason, and get an O-Line playing somewhat consistently by Week 1. If we use this strategy, I believe that we'd have a cohesive/better O-Line unit much earlier in the season than we did last year.

We need to make sure we're getting good value on good fits, preferably great value with great fits. I'm liking Schwartz, but I'm worried his value could get pushed up in free agency. Probably teams with a lot more money than us also drooling over getting Schwartz on the roster. If Jacksonville or Oakland goes after him, forget about it.

The one guy who I think is really flying under the radar is Bradley Sowell. Started the last 12 games at LT his rookie season in 2013. Cardinals had a 10-6 record and barely missed the playoffs because the NFC West was a defensive nightmare for the entire league. Curiosity getting the best of this cat, I decided to check out some 2013 videos on the Cards and I was very impressed with Sowell. After about the minute mark in the video start looking for Big #79. He handled his own and I don't really understand why the Cards spent on Veldheer when they had this guy on the roster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pUgDNA2L-A

I think this could be the steal of free agency for us this year if Sowell performs like I think he would in our offense. Nobody ever gets by him without him getting his hands on them. They might be able to beat him around the backside edge if he doesn't get the drop in his kick or get beat on a double move, but he always gets his hands on the defender and makes them work to get by him. His hands are always hitting and jolting a defender if they get in his reach. That's the type of OT we need protecting Wilson's backside.

Erebus · Feb 23, 2016

I think what we're going to see happen with the o-line is that they will go bargain shopping for veteran linemen as backup plans and hope to come away with 2 or 3 linemen in the draft. Sort of like our MLB situation in 2012.

Hawks46 · Feb 23, 2016

Erebus":xymumqud said:
I think what we're going to see happen with the o-line is that they will go bargain shopping for veteran linemen as backup plans and hope to come away with 2 or 3 linemen in the draft. Sort of like our MLB situation in 2012.

A lot of people have been saying this ( I know I have in the past) but I don't think Schneider is going to spend a lot of draft capital on the OL. Fans in general look at the draft as a sort of panacea; thinking "hey, we just throw a 1st and 2nd rounder at the OL and we'll get quality prospects that will fix things".

There's a problem with this thinking: college football is tending not to agree with it. Both Schneider and Cable have both said that the advent of the spread in college football has caused a decline in not necessarily talent, but the NFL readiness of OLmen coming from college. Schneider went so far as to say that you can't count on an OLman coming from college and creating an impact in his first year.

It seems to be true, at least on the edges. Look at the last few drafts, and look at the guys taking very high in the 1st round as LT prospects. None of them are even good right now and most are unspectacular. You can see interior guys getting starts and producing, but the edges seems to be suffering.

I don't know how this pans out in regards to how we address LT. I just see trends and statements, and it's not pointing to us grabbing a guy in the 1st round, unless it's an elite Center or Guard prospect, and that even depends on how the board falls.

pehawk · Feb 23, 2016

Gilliam is the LT next year, barring an unforseen veteran cut/windfall.

I actually like the line right now. Like the peices and youth.

firebee · Feb 23, 2016

pehawk":2j3n4r57 said:
Gilliam is the LT next year, barring an unforseen veteran cut/windfall.

I actually like the line right now. Like the peices and youth.

BRRRAAAADLLEYYY SOOOWELLLLL... Steal on a 4-5 year deal at 3-4 million a year... Might even be able to get him for less, but I wouldn't be opposed to signing him to 4 million a year after watching him play in 2013. Honestly can't understand why the Cards would spend big money on Veldheer after the way Sowell played his rookie year. It's alright with me though. Took the spotlight off him and hid him on the Cards depth chart for the last two years. Get him and draft someone like Fahn Cooper in the 3rd round, and I really start liking the possibilities at LT.

Erebus · Feb 23, 2016

Hawks46":3qf3jc0t said:
Erebus":3qf3jc0t said:

I think what we're going to see happen with the o-line is that they will go bargain shopping for veteran linemen as backup plans and hope to come away with 2 or 3 linemen in the draft. Sort of like our MLB situation in 2012.

Click to expand...

A lot of people have been saying this ( I know I have in the past) but I don't think Schneider is going to spend a lot of draft capital on the OL. Fans in general look at the draft as a sort of panacea; thinking "hey, we just throw a 1st and 2nd rounder at the OL and we'll get quality prospects that will fix things".

There's a problem with this thinking: college football is tending not to agree with it. Both Schneider and Cable have both said that the advent of the spread in college football has caused a decline in not necessarily talent, but the NFL readiness of OLmen coming from college. Schneider went so far as to say that you can't count on an OLman coming from college and creating an impact in his first year.

It seems to be true, at least on the edges. Look at the last few drafts, and look at the guys taking very high in the 1st round as LT prospects. None of them are even good right now and most are unspectacular. You can see interior guys getting starts and producing, but the edges seems to be suffering.

I don't know how this pans out in regards to how we address LT. I just see trends and statements, and it's not pointing to us grabbing a guy in the 1st round, unless it's an elite Center or Guard prospect, and that even depends on how the board falls.

I agree o-line draft picks may not play well as rookies, and I would prefer not to take one in the first round. But they have to draft some anyways, because relying solely on veterans gets too expensive over time. Part of being the "backup plan" means being a stopgap, competing with the rookies, and if necessary taking their jobs in the first year while the rookies learn. O-line is our position of greatest need, so in my opinion it requires fortifying it from as many sources as necessary. My hope is that we somehow come away with NFL-ready linemen from pro-style offenses.

I'm of the opinion that the LT position is not as important to the Seahawks offense as the interior o-line because of Wilson's elusiveness from edge pressure, Aaron Donald and Kawann Short, and the statistical lack of difference Okung made between the games he played and the games he missed. So I don't think we need to spend a 1st round pick at the position. Ideally I'd like to address the LT position in free agency with a second-tier free agent so we don't have to panic and take one in the first round, but still leave open the possibility of getting a mid-to-late round project with upside. Good interior linemen can be had in rounds 2-4.

Does two or three draft picks count as too much draft capital when you have nine picks? That would still leave six or seven picks to take advantage of this loaded d-line class (two picks), get a linebacker, a RB, maybe a WR, a defensive back, and/or a QB. I want one tackle, one guard, and one center. That could be consolidated down to two picks with versatile linemen capable of playing multiple positions.

GeekHawk · Feb 23, 2016

Hawks46":3mq4xu1d said:
Both Schneider and Cable have both said that the advent of the spread in college football has caused a decline in not necessarily talent, but the NFL readiness of OLmen coming from college. Schneider went so far as to say that you can't count on an OLman coming from college and creating an impact in his first year.

So instead we get D-line conversion projects who won't create an impact in their first year, or their second year, probably not in their third year... Except the impact on RW's ribs! :roll:

ivotuk · Feb 23, 2016

kearly said:
As far as the OL goes, honestly... I give up. I just don't trust Tom Cable to develop guys and I hate how their draft profile seems to be all over the place. A starting line with 5 greenhorns next year is my worst nightmare.

He's done well with veterans though, I hope the FO gives Cable some veterans to work with this year. It's probably not an accident that his best OL in Seattle was in 2012. Okung-McQuistan-Unger-Sweezy-Breno. Four vets and one rook.[/quote]

I am so tired of Cable! he gets paid good money and given lots of free way to pick and choose. He has wasted so much money and draft picks, while shortening Russell Wilson's career. Add to that, he seems to get credited for Marshawn's extreme ability to break tackles as well as Russell's ability to escape the pocket! Ridiculous!

"The Seahawks are the #1 rushing team in the NFL."

Yea, well so were the Atlanta Falcons with Jim Mora and Greg Knapp who road on the coattails of Michael Vick and an already good running game.

If anything, Cable has set us back! And the only person who doesn't realize this is Pete Carroll. I swear, it's like his (and JS) blunders to overpay and overvalue Charlie Whitehurst, Percy Harvin, and an injured Marshawn Lynch.

I'm of the opinion that Marshawn was put in the Panthers game too soon, not having recovered from his injury or regained his weight yet. But Pete has a tendency to overvalue some players contributions, as if the team can't make it without that one person, no matter what their condition at the time. And that should never be the case!

:229031_banghead:

ivotuk · Feb 23, 2016

http://www.hawkblogger.com/2016/01/the- ... undru.html

McGruff · Feb 24, 2016

Guys to keep a look on at OL from the top 99 on NFL.com . . . http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... le-players

Brandon Brooks, Guard - Young with 4 years starting experience. He's got the size the Seahawks like at LG.

Ramon Foster, Guard - He's older (30) but again is a tall, massive guy.

Kelechi Osemele, Guard - I think he'll be out of our price range.

Alex Boone, Guard - Seems like he's been around forever, but is still only 28. He's tall but not very big. More like a JR Sweezy replacement or possible RT depth

Kelvin Beechum, Tackle - 3 year starter at LT for the Steelers. Young, but coming off an ACL injury in October and may not be ready until the Fall.

Donald Penn, Tackle - Left tackle who runs hot and cold. Older stop gap (32)

Jahri Evans, G - Older stop gap

Joe Barksdale, Tackle - Power Right Tackle with a good amount of starting experience, but is probably only a fringe quality starter

Stephan Wisniewski, Center - Another guy who seems like he's been around for 40 years, but is only 26 years old. We kicked the tires last year, but the failed experiment with Nowak hopefully taught us a lesson.

themunn · Feb 24, 2016

ivotuk":1gsix4yg said:
I am so tired of Cable! he gets paid good money and given lots of free way to pick and choose. He has wasted so much money and draft picks, while shortening Russell Wilson's career. Add to that, he seems to get credited for Marshawn's extreme ability to break tackles as well as Russell's ability to escape the pocket! Ridiculous!

"The Seahawks are the #1 rushing team in the NFL."

Yea, well so were the Atlanta Falcons with Jim Mora and Greg Knapp who road on the coattails of Michael Vick and an already good running game.

But Lynch didn't put up his video game numbers in 2010 - nor the first half of 2011. In the second half of 2011 it was widely credited to Cable that Lynch bought into the system and started putting up the numbers he managed for the next few years. Remember, this was pre-Wilson.

http://www.seahawks.com/news/2011/12/30/finding-his-fit

Furthermore, there's things like this:

But wait, there’s more. Lynch also has scored a TD in his past 11 games, not only a franchise record but the longest streak in the league since the Chiefs’ Priest Holmes scored in 11 consecutive games in 2002. Also, 855 of his rushing yards have come in the past eight games, when he has been the NFL’s leading rusher.

No matter how good a running back you are (remember, this is with an injured Tarvaris Jackson under center!), you don't get there without good O-Line play (hey, we've already credited all of Shaun Alexander's 27 touchdowns to the 2005 O-Line remember!).

And now it's just coincidence that Seattle find an undrafted rookie running back capable of a 200 yard game, Cable has nothing to do with it?

firebee · Feb 24, 2016

McGruff":38gofb39 said:
Guys to keep a look on at OL from the top 99 on NFL.com . . . http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... le-players

Brandon Brooks, Guard - Young with 4 years starting experience. He's got the size the Seahawks like at LG.

Ramon Foster, Guard - He's older (30) but again is a tall, massive guy.

Kelechi Osemele, Guard - I think he'll be out of our price range.

Alex Boone, Guard - Seems like he's been around forever, but is still only 28. He's tall but not very big. More like a JR Sweezy replacement or possible RT depth

Kelvin Beechum, Tackle - 3 year starter at LT for the Steelers. Young, but coming off an ACL injury in October and may not be ready until the Fall.

Donald Penn, Tackle - Left tackle who runs hot and cold. Older stop gap (32)

Jahri Evans, G - Older stop gap

Joe Barksdale, Tackle - Power Right Tackle with a good amount of starting experience, but is probably only a fringe quality starter

Stephan Wisniewski, Center - Another guy who seems like he's been around for 40 years, but is only 26 years old. We kicked the tires last year, but the failed experiment with Nowak hopefully taught us a lesson.

I like it... Keep Sowell under the radar. Sowell's our guy in free agency. Should get absolutely great value on him and I think, under worst case scenario, we get a LT that's as good as Okung was last year and not as injury prone at a fraction of the cost. He might be better than Okung. Also like that Schwartz isn't being brought up on the list. If we land Sowell and Schwartz combined for the price of Okung or close to; I think we're looking really good at OT heading into the draft. which doesn't force us to reach or take an OT that we may or may not feel is good value for the spot. Also, What's up with Peter Konz. Noticed he was released by Atlanta last year and appears to still be a free agent.

Willyeye · Feb 24, 2016

firebee":36az5sxf said:
McGruff":36az5sxf said:

Guys to keep a look on at OL from the top 99 on NFL.com . . . http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... le-players

Brandon Brooks, Guard - Young with 4 years starting experience. He's got the size the Seahawks like at LG.

Ramon Foster, Guard - He's older (30) but again is a tall, massive guy.

Kelechi Osemele, Guard - I think he'll be out of our price range.

Alex Boone, Guard - Seems like he's been around forever, but is still only 28. He's tall but not very big. More like a JR Sweezy replacement or possible RT depth

Kelvin Beechum, Tackle - 3 year starter at LT for the Steelers. Young, but coming off an ACL injury in October and may not be ready until the Fall.

Donald Penn, Tackle - Left tackle who runs hot and cold. Older stop gap (32)

Jahri Evans, G - Older stop gap

Joe Barksdale, Tackle - Power Right Tackle with a good amount of starting experience, but is probably only a fringe quality starter

Stephan Wisniewski, Center - Another guy who seems like he's been around for 40 years, but is only 26 years old. We kicked the tires last year, but the failed experiment with Nowak hopefully taught us a lesson.

Click to expand...

I like it... Keep Sowell under the radar. Sowell's our guy in free agency. Should get absolutely great value on him and I think, under worst case scenario, we get a LT that's as good as Okung was last year and not as injury prone at a fraction of the cost. He might be better than Okung. Also like that Schwartz isn't being brought up on the list. If we land Sowell and Schwartz combined for the price of Okung or close to; I think we're looking really good at OT heading into the draft. which doesn't force us to reach or take an OT that we may or may not feel is good value for the spot. Also, What's up with Peter Konz. Noticed he was released by Atlanta last year and appears to still be a free agent.

This is the stuff I was hoping to hear. I just don't see Okung or Sweezy signing on the cheap with the Seahawks...someone will overpay them...and I think both have a lot more negatives than they do positives. I think there are alternatives out there that could give us a decent O-Line this year. Given the cap situation, and given the transition to more of a passing game for Russell, we need to get help on the O-Line, but not at the expense of decimating our cap space by re-signing Okung and Sweezy. I think both are totally replaceable. Glow has had a year of seasoning, so he should have no problem replacing Sweezy. Same is true for Gilliam...he should be able to at least compete for Okung's position this year. Get a couple of inexpensive FA's, make some more traditional O-Line draft picks like they did with Glowinski last year, and this line could end up being the best of the RW era thus far. I think Cable is probably the right man for the job...he just needs to stop overthinking things...keep things simple...stop with all the 3 or 4 year projects, and don't overreach like they did for Britt. The offensive line group for the 2016 draft is loaded, as is the D-Line group...this is the year to make a move on both O-Line and D-Line! A couple of strategic O-Line picks this year could set the Hawks up for a very successful offense for years to come.

McGruff · Feb 24, 2016

Willyeye":prl65hth said:
firebee":prl65hth said:

McGruff":prl65hth said:

Guys to keep a look on at OL from the top 99 on NFL.com . . . http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... le-players

Brandon Brooks, Guard - Young with 4 years starting experience. He's got the size the Seahawks like at LG.

Ramon Foster, Guard - He's older (30) but again is a tall, massive guy.

Kelechi Osemele, Guard - I think he'll be out of our price range.

Alex Boone, Guard - Seems like he's been around forever, but is still only 28. He's tall but not very big. More like a JR Sweezy replacement or possible RT depth

Kelvin Beechum, Tackle - 3 year starter at LT for the Steelers. Young, but coming off an ACL injury in October and may not be ready until the Fall.

Donald Penn, Tackle - Left tackle who runs hot and cold. Older stop gap (32)

Jahri Evans, G - Older stop gap

Joe Barksdale, Tackle - Power Right Tackle with a good amount of starting experience, but is probably only a fringe quality starter

Stephan Wisniewski, Center - Another guy who seems like he's been around for 40 years, but is only 26 years old. We kicked the tires last year, but the failed experiment with Nowak hopefully taught us a lesson.

Click to expand...

I like it... Keep Sowell under the radar. Sowell's our guy in free agency. Should get absolutely great value on him and I think, under worst case scenario, we get a LT that's as good as Okung was last year and not as injury prone at a fraction of the cost. He might be better than Okung. Also like that Schwartz isn't being brought up on the list. If we land Sowell and Schwartz combined for the price of Okung or close to; I think we're looking really good at OT heading into the draft. which doesn't force us to reach or take an OT that we may or may not feel is good value for the spot. Also, What's up with Peter Konz. Noticed he was released by Atlanta last year and appears to still be a free agent.

Click to expand...

This is the stuff I was hoping to hear. I just don't see Okung or Sweezy signing on the cheap with the Seahawks...someone will overpay them...and I think both have a lot more negatives than they do positives. I think there are alternatives out there that could give us a decent O-Line this year. Given the cap situation, and given the transition to more of a passing game for Russell, we need to get help on the O-Line, but not at the expense of decimating our cap space by re-signing Okung and Sweezy. I think both are totally replaceable. Glow has had a year of seasoning, so he should have no problem replacing Sweezy. Same is true for Gilliam...he should be able to at least compete for Okung's position this year. Get a couple of inexpensive FA's, make some more traditional O-Line draft picks like they did with Glowinski last year, and this line could end up being the best of the RW era thus far. I think Cable is probably the right man for the job...he just needs to stop overthinking things...keep things simple...stop with all the 3 or 4 year projects, and don't overreach like they did for Britt. The offensive line group for the 2016 draft is loaded, as is the D-Line group...this is the year to make a move on both O-Line and D-Line! A couple of strategic O-Line picks this year could set the Hawks up for a very successful offense for years to come.

Okung is high on the list with caveats about his injury and self-representation.

Sweezy is no where to be found. The only Seahawks on the NFL top 99 free agents are Irvin, Okung and Shead. Kearse might be also, but I wasn't paying attention to WR's.

Hawks46 · Feb 24, 2016

GeekHawk":3uvsy514 said:
Hawks46":3uvsy514 said:

Both Schneider and Cable have both said that the advent of the spread in college football has caused a decline in not necessarily talent, but the NFL readiness of OLmen coming from college. Schneider went so far as to say that you can't count on an OLman coming from college and creating an impact in his first year.

Click to expand...

So instead we get D-line conversion projects who won't create an impact in their first year, or their second year, probably not in their third year... Except the impact on RW's ribs! :roll:

Actually I'm not saying that at all. I think Cable has swung too far the other way. "Gee, Olmen suck coming out of college, so let's just get great athletes and convert them". I think they got too cute with the OL last year, and I hope Pete and John learned from it. Wilson can't keep taking all those shots forever, and we he goes down, we're going to see how much he means to the team. You lose him ffor a significant portion of the year, and you can kiss that year goodbye in our division.

I honestly have no idea why they don't just draft a good Guard or Center that actually played the position in college and graded out well in the 2nd through 4th rounds and just go from there. Also, Cable's total disregard for pass protection is also really really annoying.

Hawks46 · Feb 24, 2016

Erebus":sasqci9e said:
Hawks46":sasqci9e said:

Erebus":sasqci9e said:

I think what we're going to see happen with the o-line is that they will go bargain shopping for veteran linemen as backup plans and hope to come away with 2 or 3 linemen in the draft. Sort of like our MLB situation in 2012.

Click to expand...

A lot of people have been saying this ( I know I have in the past) but I don't think Schneider is going to spend a lot of draft capital on the OL. Fans in general look at the draft as a sort of panacea; thinking "hey, we just throw a 1st and 2nd rounder at the OL and we'll get quality prospects that will fix things".

There's a problem with this thinking: college football is tending not to agree with it. Both Schneider and Cable have both said that the advent of the spread in college football has caused a decline in not necessarily talent, but the NFL readiness of OLmen coming from college. Schneider went so far as to say that you can't count on an OLman coming from college and creating an impact in his first year.

It seems to be true, at least on the edges. Look at the last few drafts, and look at the guys taking very high in the 1st round as LT prospects. None of them are even good right now and most are unspectacular. You can see interior guys getting starts and producing, but the edges seems to be suffering.

I don't know how this pans out in regards to how we address LT. I just see trends and statements, and it's not pointing to us grabbing a guy in the 1st round, unless it's an elite Center or Guard prospect, and that even depends on how the board falls.

Click to expand...

I agree o-line draft picks may not play well as rookies, and I would prefer not to take one in the first round. But they have to draft some anyways, because relying solely on veterans gets too expensive over time. Part of being the "backup plan" means being a stopgap, competing with the rookies, and if necessary taking their jobs in the first year while the rookies learn. O-line is our position of greatest need, so in my opinion it requires fortifying it from as many sources as necessary. My hope is that we somehow come away with NFL-ready linemen from pro-style offenses.

I'm of the opinion that the LT position is not as important to the Seahawks offense as the interior o-line because of Wilson's elusiveness from edge pressure, Aaron Donald and Kawann Short, and the statistical lack of difference Okung made between the games he played and the games he missed. So I don't think we need to spend a 1st round pick at the position. Ideally I'd like to address the LT position in free agency with a second-tier free agent so we don't have to panic and take one in the first round, but still leave open the possibility of getting a mid-to-late round project with upside. Good interior linemen can be had in rounds 2-4.

Does two or three draft picks count as too much draft capital when you have nine picks? That would still leave six or seven picks to take advantage of this loaded d-line class (two picks), get a linebacker, a RB, maybe a WR, a defensive back, and/or a QB. I want one tackle, one guard, and one center. That could be consolidated down to two picks with versatile linemen capable of playing multiple positions.

Good post and great points. What I mean by draft capital isn't the amount of picks, because we've spent 3 picks on OL in a draft before, but the 1st or 2nd round picks. I just believe that Schneider thinks he can get more value with a dynamic impact player from those positions than he can with OL. With all his faults, Cable has done an admirable job putting lipstick on the pig we call an OL the last few years, with the dearth of talent and picks we've used there.

McGruff · Feb 24, 2016

Hawks46":3k4o5x81 said:
Erebus":3k4o5x81 said:

Hawks46":3k4o5x81 said:

Erebus":3k4o5x81 said:

I think what we're going to see happen with the o-line is that they will go bargain shopping for veteran linemen as backup plans and hope to come away with 2 or 3 linemen in the draft. Sort of like our MLB situation in 2012.

Click to expand...

A lot of people have been saying this ( I know I have in the past) but I don't think Schneider is going to spend a lot of draft capital on the OL. Fans in general look at the draft as a sort of panacea; thinking "hey, we just throw a 1st and 2nd rounder at the OL and we'll get quality prospects that will fix things".

There's a problem with this thinking: college football is tending not to agree with it. Both Schneider and Cable have both said that the advent of the spread in college football has caused a decline in not necessarily talent, but the NFL readiness of OLmen coming from college. Schneider went so far as to say that you can't count on an OLman coming from college and creating an impact in his first year.

It seems to be true, at least on the edges. Look at the last few drafts, and look at the guys taking very high in the 1st round as LT prospects. None of them are even good right now and most are unspectacular. You can see interior guys getting starts and producing, but the edges seems to be suffering.

I don't know how this pans out in regards to how we address LT. I just see trends and statements, and it's not pointing to us grabbing a guy in the 1st round, unless it's an elite Center or Guard prospect, and that even depends on how the board falls.

Click to expand...

I agree o-line draft picks may not play well as rookies, and I would prefer not to take one in the first round. But they have to draft some anyways, because relying solely on veterans gets too expensive over time. Part of being the "backup plan" means being a stopgap, competing with the rookies, and if necessary taking their jobs in the first year while the rookies learn. O-line is our position of greatest need, so in my opinion it requires fortifying it from as many sources as necessary. My hope is that we somehow come away with NFL-ready linemen from pro-style offenses.

I'm of the opinion that the LT position is not as important to the Seahawks offense as the interior o-line because of Wilson's elusiveness from edge pressure, Aaron Donald and Kawann Short, and the statistical lack of difference Okung made between the games he played and the games he missed. So I don't think we need to spend a 1st round pick at the position. Ideally I'd like to address the LT position in free agency with a second-tier free agent so we don't have to panic and take one in the first round, but still leave open the possibility of getting a mid-to-late round project with upside. Good interior linemen can be had in rounds 2-4.

Does two or three draft picks count as too much draft capital when you have nine picks? That would still leave six or seven picks to take advantage of this loaded d-line class (two picks), get a linebacker, a RB, maybe a WR, a defensive back, and/or a QB. I want one tackle, one guard, and one center. That could be consolidated down to two picks with versatile linemen capable of playing multiple positions.

Click to expand...

Good post and great points. What I mean by draft capital isn't the amount of picks, because we've spent 3 picks on OL in a draft before, but the 1st or 2nd round picks. I just believe that Schneider thinks he can get more value with a dynamic impact player from those positions than he can with OL. With all his faults, Cable has done an admirable job putting lipstick on the pig we call an OL the last few years, with the dearth of talent and picks we've used there.

The Seahawks have made 4 first round selections under Carroll/Schneider . . . 2 of them were spent on offensive line. They've also used a 2nd and a high 3rd on offensive linemen.

kf3339 · Feb 25, 2016

I will only say this about our O-Line situation for this off-season. If PC and JS have any real wish at all of having RW as our long term franchise quarterback they will make a strong push now for quality veteran OL replacements at both OC and LG at the minimum. Where we were weakest was the interior, and made RW the most vulnerable this last season.

RW seemed to have a relatively strong ability to evade the outside pressure more often than not. But when the defensive interior push was breaking thru it created serious problems for him, and most of the worst mistakes happened.

I know PC stated he wanted to deal with this, but seriously if that was his real intent he would have first fired Cable. He is the most over-rated OL coach in the game. Since that didn't happen I call Bull-#$%^%.

We shall see, but I'm not holding my breath for a real push to make our line stronger.

Optimal scenario for our O-Line

New member

New member

New member

Active member

New member

Well-known member

New member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

New member

Active member

Similar threads