No OL experience/continuity next year...and that's okay?

Newest article from Fieldgulls.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/3/15/112 ... ve-line-in

In the last three or four years, the Seahawks have locked up about a dozen players that they love to long term contracts. ... But have you noticed that outside of Okung's rookie deal which just expired, they've never done this for a single offensive lineman? Unger: Trade. Carpenter: Walk. Giacomini: Walk. Sweezy: Walk. Okung: Take a stroll and see what happens. .. Kelechi Osemele? No thanks. Alex Mack? It's no secret, we're not interested. Donald Penn? Maybe in September.

...

This front office has spent two firsts and a second on offensive linemen in the draft, and those three players have combined to make the majority of starts on the left side since 2012. Other than that though, they've used Unger (inherited), a seven rounder, some undrafted free agents, and guys plucked off of practice squads to fill the other three spots on the line. All it's gotten them is the top running game and one of the best passing games in the NFL over the last four years, with two Super Bowl appearances.

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For me, it's further reinforcement that the OL's importance is waayyy overstated next to the importance of the QB in this increasingly spread-dominated era of the NFL. I would still rather have more continuity, and I think our offense in 2015 was a little overrated despite being #1 in DVOA. Also, this is a year where we can probably afford to devote more resources to the OL, given the relative stability of other positions (DL excluded).

But I still agree with Arthur - it's hard to be too worried.

So far what we've done is a joke. Why not bring in an Evan Mathis, Jahri Evans - guys who actually know how to play the position. As of right now I think it's safe to say our line is going to be brutal again even with the addition of some rooks.

King Dog":3dnz5yjp said:

So far what we've done is a joke. Why not bring in an Evan Mathis, Jahri Evans - guys who actually know how to play the position. As of right now I think it's safe to say our line is going to be brutal again even with the addition of some rooks.

Click to expand...

Old guys whose skills are deteriorating aND who don't fit the scheme???

Instead of young, strong guys whose future may still be ahead of them?

MontanaHawk05":2xogdlss said:

Newest article from Fieldgulls.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/3/15/112 ... ve-line-in

In the last three or four years, the Seahawks have locked up about a dozen players that they love to long term contracts. ... But have you noticed that outside of Okung's rookie deal which just expired, they've never done this for a single offensive lineman? Unger: Trade. Carpenter: Walk. Giacomini: Walk. Sweezy: Walk. Okung: Take a stroll and see what happens. .. Kelechi Osemele? No thanks. Alex Mack? It's no secret, we're not interested. Donald Penn? Maybe in September.

...

This front office has spent two firsts and a second on offensive linemen in the draft, and those three players have combined to make the majority of starts on the left side since 2012. Other than that though, they've used Unger (inherited), a seven rounder, some undrafted free agents, and guys plucked off of practice squads to fill the other three spots on the line. All it's gotten them is the top running game and one of the best passing games in the NFL over the last four years, with two Super Bowl appearances.

Click to expand...

For me, it's further reinforcement that the OL's importance is waayyy overstated next to the importance of the QB in this increasingly spread-dominated era of the NFL. I would still rather have more continuity, and I think our offense in 2015 was a little overrated despite being #1 in DVOA. Also, this is a year where we can probably afford to devote more resources to the OL, given the relative stability of other positions (DL excluded).

But I still agree with Arthur - it's hard to be too worried.

Click to expand...

Yes, I knew that. I wrote about it in a fanpost on fieldgulls. :lol:

McGruff":29nj045n said:

King Dog":29nj045n said:

So far what we've done is a joke. Why not bring in an Evan Mathis, Jahri Evans - guys who actually know how to play the position. As of right now I think it's safe to say our line is going to be brutal again even with the addition of some rooks.

Click to expand...

Old guys whose skills are deteriorating aND who don't fit the scheme???

Instead of young, strong guys whose future may still be ahead of them?

Click to expand...

Oh yeah. Absolutely. We were rumored to be in on Mathis last year. He excels in the ZBS.

King Dog":3lyb26ig said:

So far what we've done is a joke. Why not bring in an Evan Mathis, Jahri Evans - guys who actually know how to play the position. As of right now I think it's safe to say our line is going to be brutal again even with the addition of some rooks.

Click to expand...

Because they're old players with nothing left to prove on the downside of their careers that will be overvalued and one of them will chew up half our cap space. I know the big names are appealing, but we wouldn't get good value on either of those guys. I'd rather see us do as we've been doing... Lower cost young and hungry guys with upside that are looking to prove something and breakthrough in the NFL vs. older has beens looking to cash out on their laurels at the end of their career.

firebee":1rjj7zyb said:

King Dog":1rjj7zyb said:

So far what we've done is a joke. Why not bring in an Evan Mathis, Jahri Evans - guys who actually know how to play the position. As of right now I think it's safe to say our line is going to be brutal again even with the addition of some rooks.

Click to expand...

Because they're old players with nothing left to prove on the downside of their careers that will be overvalued and one of them will chew up half our cap space. I know the big names are appealing, but we wouldn't get good value on either of those guys. I'd rather see us do as we've been doing... Lower cost young and hungry guys with upside that are looking to prove something and breakthrough in the NFL vs. older has beens looking to cash out on their laurels at the end of their career.

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It doesn't matter what I think - the FO is doing what you're talking about and I'm guessing the results will be bad.

Here's my take on how this front office approaches bargain bin free agency . . .

If you sign older, downside guys to one year deals like Evans and Mathis and they pop and line play improves that year, you are in the same position again the next year . . . you aren't giving good money, long term deals to guys who are 34-36 years old.

If you sign younger guys like Sowell and Webb to one year deals, and they pop and line play improves, you've now got a chance to lock up a proven lineman or two for 3-5 years.

I think Pete and John are always looking at free agency (and the draft for that matter!) while listeniing to the "what if" of the future, not the "right now" of the present. Frankly, that is how you build a dynasty . . . let older players walk on by and find the hidden younger gems. You are going to miss sometimes, but the upside of hitting is worth it.

King Dog":ayav8scc said:

So far what we've done is a joke. Why not bring in an Evan Mathis, Jahri Evans - guys who actually know how to play the position. As of right now I think it's safe to say our line is going to be brutal again even with the addition of some rooks.

Click to expand...

I agree that the "progress" up till now is a joke, but I have to say...I believe that O-Line is a good position group to save cap space and use it on defense. Given that Russell is our QB, it is one place where they can be thrifty.

But last year was ridiculous. I love how people keep clamoring for continuity...do we really want to continue with last year's O-Line? For some bizarre reason, people seem to think that replacing Nowak with Lewis turned around the O-Line...it didn't. When Lewis took over, they went to a much faster release for Russell, and they entered into the easy part of their schedule. When they played teams with a decent front 7 (Rams, Panthers and Vikings), the "new" O-Line looked just as bad as the line did with Nowak.

I would hate for them to bring in old guys that are on the decline...Mathis and Evans would just kick the can down the road for a year while costing us a lot of money. I don't think spending that much money on an aging Guard really makes sense. I wouldn't mind so much trading for Joe Thomas...he's a bit younger than Evans and Mathis...and I feel if they had the #1 LT in the NFL, it would make it 10 times easier to build the rest of the line.

My strategy would be to build the O-Line with REAL O-LINE rookies...the problem is, the FO hasn't done any building the last few drafts, other than Glowinski. Conversion projects take too long...7th rounder projects take too long...drafting 6th rounders in the 2nd round is NEVER a good idea...drafting a UDFA in the 4th round is NEVER a good idea...enough with the projects...what sense does it make even if they succeeded? Why spend 3 years coaching up mediocre linemen, let them play for one year, and then lose them to FA? It's ridiculous. After all the neglect, they need to use their first 2 picks this year on the O-Line. Draft a legit T and LG with picks #26 and #56...then add a C in the 4th round. This draft is the ideal opportunity to do it...best class in a long time for O-Line. They could actually have an above average line for a few years at a great salary. That's all they really need with Wilson in there.

The addition of Sowell and Webb might even end up being a huge boon this year. Both guys have a lot of potential.

McGruff":1uuk53fs said:

King Dog":1uuk53fs said:

So far what we've done is a joke. Why not bring in an Evan Mathis, Jahri Evans - guys who actually know how to play the position. As of right now I think it's safe to say our line is going to be brutal again even with the addition of some rooks.

Click to expand...

Old guys whose skills are deteriorating aND who don't fit the scheme???

Instead of young, strong guys whose future may still be ahead of them?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about Evans, but Mathis was ranked 3rd best run blocker by PFF last season (behind Joe Berger and Tyron Smith). Both fit ZBS.

In my head as it stands right now:

Gilliam, Sokoli, Lewis, Glow, Webb

Britt
Poole or Sowell
1st or 2nd rounder
4th rounder or Nowak

Britt and Poole would be the new swing players and I'm not so sure that Poole doesn't win the RT spot. He looked like he had some upside there last preseason, which would render Webb as a swing player. The 1st or 2nd rounder would be a LT to compete with Gilliam. The 4th rounder would be a C to compete with Nowak where both players could also play some G.

Either that or we actually keep 10 this year. And there could be some out of the blue "hangry" UDFA to steal a spot too.

Yep the O-line importance is overvalued please play crappy players in those spots

Sincerely,

Denver Broncos
Carolina Panthers
Arizona Cardinals

vin.couve12":24pd6me7 said:

In my head as it stands right now:

Gilliam, Sokoli, Lewis, Glow, Webb

Britt
Poole or Sowell
1st or 2nd rounder
4th rounder or Nowak

Britt and Poole would be the new swing players and I'm not so sure that Poole doesn't win the RT spot. He looked like he had some upside there last preseason, which would render Webb as a swing player. The 1st or 2nd rounder would be a LT to compete with Gilliam. The 4th rounder would be a C to compete with Nowak where both players could also play some G.

Either that or we actually keep 10 this year. And there could be some out of the blue "hangry" UDFA to steal a spot too.

Click to expand...

I've seen numerous posts across threads projecting Sokoli being in the mix. Do you think he'll be ready? I recall in preseason, he was considered a bigger project than initially thought (or hoped for). And these conversion projects do seem to take a while. I'm definitely hopeful that one of the answers could already be on roster.

Jac":loh8sz48 said:

vin.couve12":loh8sz48 said:

In my head as it stands right now:

Gilliam, Sokoli, Lewis, Glow, Webb

Britt
Poole or Sowell
1st or 2nd rounder
4th rounder or Nowak

Britt and Poole would be the new swing players and I'm not so sure that Poole doesn't win the RT spot. He looked like he had some upside there last preseason, which would render Webb as a swing player. The 1st or 2nd rounder would be a LT to compete with Gilliam. The 4th rounder would be a C to compete with Nowak where both players could also play some G.

Either that or we actually keep 10 this year. And there could be some out of the blue "hangry" UDFA to steal a spot too.

Click to expand...

I've seen numerous posts across threads projecting Sokoli being in the mix. Do you think he'll be ready? I recall in preseason, he was considered a bigger project than initially thought (or hoped for). And these conversion projects do seem to take a while. I'm definitely hopeful that one of the answers could already be on roster.

Click to expand...

I think his time switching from DL directly to C was a bit of a waste of time. Maybe you ask a rookie who's already played G to take snaps at C, but not a player who's never played on the OL at all. I think there was some ego and overconfidence in that decision.

At G I think there's a much better chance.

Here's what Seattle's 2012 OL would look like today in terms of each player's 2016 cap hit:

Okung: ????
Carpenter: $5.58 million
Unger: $6.2 million
Sweezy: $9.5 million
Giacomini: $5.63 million

Which makes you wonder, is continuity on the OL even possible the way the market works in the NFL these days? We all know it's important, but can it justify such a steep cost?

In reality, teams can afford to keep 1 or 2 players on the OL long term, but the rest of the OL is going to be a revolving door.

Please draft a good C early. It will make a huge difference in pass pro.

If we can bring Okung back and get one of the top guards in the 1st or 2nd round, we actually might be upgrading the line over last year.

If no Okung and 2-3 new pieces on the line? Err, it's gonna be like last year where the line's a complete disaster for half a season until Cable coaches them up.

I just really hope going into camp they have a good idea of the projected starters. The only thing that has ever improved the Cable O-Line play is consistency. The same players at the same positions with little shuffling.

Though you usually only get about 4-5 games of this a season.

Sgt. Largent":39i810qn said:

If we can bring Okung back and get one of the top guards in the 1st or 2nd round, we actually might be upgrading the line over last year.

If no Okung and 2-3 new pieces on the line? Err, it's gonna be like last year where the line's a complete disaster for half a season until Cable coaches them up.

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I don't think we need Okung at this point. He'd be nice to have in the mix on a real team friendly deal, but I don't think he'd have a major impact on our line. Of course... I'm comfortable with the prospect of Sowell and Gilliam competing for the start at LT. Webb is also an option, but I see him as a better fit at RT. I think the guy that wins between Sowell and Gilliam will be as good, if not better, than Okung... Less flags and better durability that leads to better continuity and less drive-killers from the LT position. Toss in Conklin or Spriggs in the 1st and Nembot in the 5th or 6th and I think we're looking really good at OT heading into the training camps. Still wouldn't mind seeing us get a deal done with Ted Larsen. Played guard for Cards, but was a Center at NC State when Wilson was there. Between him having experience with Wilson at NC State as a Center and playing with Sowell at Arizona, I think he brings an element of cohesion as a free agent. Drop Connor McGovern in on the action via 3rd round pick and I think this could turn into one of the best lines we've ever had by the end of preseason.

Competing at LT - Gary Gilliam, Bradley Sowell, J'Marcus Webb, (Spriggs or Conklin), Stephane Nembot
Competing at LG - Justin Britt, Mark Glowinski, Kristjan Sokoli, Ted Larsen, Connor McGovern
Competing at C - Patrick Lewis, Drew Nowak, Ted Larsen, Will Pericak, Kristjan Sokoli
Competing at RG - Justin Britt, Mark Glowinski, Kristjan Sokoli, Ted Larsen, Connor McGovern
Competing at RT - Justin Britt, Gary Gilliam, J'Marcus Webb, Bradley Sowell, (Spriggs or Conklin), Connor McGovern, Stephane Nembot

kearly":1yaw2lx8 said:

Here's what Seattle's 2012 OL would look like today in terms of each player's 2016 cap hit:

Okung: ????
Carpenter: $5.58 million
Unger: $6.2 million
Sweezy: $9.5 million
Giacomini: $5.63 million

Which makes you wonder, is continuity on the OL even possible the way the market works in the NFL these days? We all know it's important, but can it justify such a steep cost?

In reality, teams can afford to keep 1 or 2 players on the OL long term, but the rest of the OL is going to be a revolving door.

Click to expand...

Outstanding post.