Three Little Birds On The OL (Speculation + Optimism)

firebee

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I had Three Little Birds talk to me about the OL today and they said "Don't worry about a thing cause every little thing is gonna be alright". No namebrand linemen have been brought in to be penciled in as starters and I'm kind of thinking we won't take an OT in the 1st like many expect us to. I'm expecting my fellow 12s to have a complete meltdown, but I'm going to listen to these three little birds sing a sweet song that is pure and true. I think they were saying this message is for you.

Between Gilliam and Sowell battling it out at LT, I'm comfortable with the winner of that battle starting for us. Ignore the PFF statistics. Ignore the negativity. Both Sowell and Gilliam got off to a rough start when they were thrown into a starting role, which caused their PFF statistics to nosedive right off the bat. What PFF statistics don't show is how they progressed. Both progressed extremely well as starters and both were very solid by the end of the season when they started. Whoever wins the start at LT will be locked in by the end of preseason and both of them have fared well against elite competition in the NFL when they're locked in. I think Webb's best shot is at RT, but maybe he surprises at LT, and I don't see us moving anybody that's over 6'6" to the inside, so just forget about Webb on the inside. Russell Wilson has to see over the line and putting a 6'7"+ lineman on the interior doesn't help that cause. Look for our staff to keep the interior height below 6'6".

As for the draft... I think a lot of 12s are going to be disappointed, but don't worry about a thing cause' every little thing is gonna be alright. I'm not sold on us taking an OT early. In consideration of the measurables, SPARQ and the schools our FO seems to target in the draft; my gut feeling tells me we're targeting Stephane Nembot out of Colorado, who's projected as a 6th or 7th round pick on most draft boards. Size, length, athleticism, demeanor, converted DE, and the program he comes from makes him the most likely target for us at OT when I look at the OTs in this draft. I wouldn't be surprised to see us go Ryan Kelly with our 1st pick, Connor McGovern in the 2nd or 3rd round and Stephane Nembot on the 3rd day to round out the depth and competition on our offensive line. All 3 players fit the mold we look for at the positions they're slotted at and all 3 come from programs that are system-friendly to our coaching staff.

I realize that no namebrand players is sending a vast majority of the 12s into a complete meltdown when it comes to the offensive line, but I like the direction our line is heading. By the time training camps roll around; we'll have Gilliam, Sowell and Webb competing for the start at left tackle. The losers of the battle at LT will be competing for the start at RT with Connor McGovern and Stephane Nembot. McGovern is likely a better fit for guard and his length isn't perfect for RT, but I could see our FO overlooking his length if he excels at RT. Then we'll have Lewis, Kelly and Pericak competing for the start at Center. If Lewis wins out at Center, Kelly and Pericak can compete with Glowinski, Britt, Sokoli and McGovern for the start at guard on either side. We have a ton of youth and a ton of depth on the line heading into the training camps. This is better than having a few penciled in guys with minimal depth competing for the start heading into preseason. Their is no upside in a unit with minimal depth and penciled in starters. That's a stagnant unit.

As of right now, I'm kind of thinking we'll end up with Gilliam or Sowell at LT, Britt or Glowinski at LG, Lewis or Kelly at Center, McGovern or Sokoli at RG and Webb or Nembot at RT. Of course... Training camps could tell us a different story, but this seems like the most likely scenario based on who we have and the tendencies of our FO in the draft . I just hope they find good fits before preseason, so they can start working the guys into their positions during preseason and let them develop some continuity before the regular season hits. If our staff can determine where these guys are best fit to play heading into the preseason and just use preseason to develop some continuity and let them settle in, I see us looking real good on the line heading into the regular season. Lots of quality depth, youth and athleticism. People just need to sit back, listen to the Three Little Birds and trust the process. Every little thing is gonna be alright.
 

McGruff

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I appreciate the thought process and effort, and I love me some firebee, but man was that a condescending post . . . Trust the three little birds?

No one in the NFL throws over the line. Every offense is more or less based on creating passing lanes to throw over.

And Nembot LOOKS like an NFL tackle, but neither plays or tests like one. I was high on him based on prototype size and physique and was even willing to overlook sketchy tape because he's pretty new to football as a foreign born prospect. But then his combine drills? He isn't nearly as athletic as his frame suggests.
 

Seahwkgal

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I would love to be optimistic about the O Line. I really, really, want you to be right but I have a feeling that I am going to be spending most of the season praying that our QB can last the season and not be put on IR. Yes, I am that worried.
 
OP
OP
F

firebee

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McGruff":lwuupswm said:
I appreciate the thought process and effort, and I love me some firebee, but man was that a condescending post . . . Trust the three little birds?

No one in the NFL throws over the line. Every offense is more or less based on creating passing lanes to throw over.

And Nembot LOOKS like an NFL tackle, but neither plays or tests like one. I was high on him based on prototype size and physique and was even willing to overlook sketchy tape because he's pretty new to football as a foreign born prospect. But then his combine drills? He isn't nearly as athletic as his frame suggests.

Agree Nembot is very raw and I would agree with you based on his combine performance, but he ran a lot better at his Pro Day... Significantly better. Won't push his stock up too much on the typical boards and can be overlooked, but it does verify his athleticism to those who are interested in him. Also... I didn't say Wilson needs shorter lineman to throw over. I know passing lanes are the foundation in just about every offense, but the QB still has to see over the lineman to hit the targets accurately when they're entering the passing lanes, making taller lineman problematic for a shorter QB. Last, but not least... How is that a condescending post, other than pointing out the fact that a vast majority of the 12s are going into a complete meltdown because we haven't signed a namebrand player to our offensive line... Do you even Bob Marley bro?
 

Atradees

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Msg 480

I dont think we are all out for the Oline in rounds 1 and 2. We would all like to see it Im sure.
 

Seahawkfan80

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If I recall correctly...we usually dont get name players....We MAKE THEM name players....Tweet tweet tweet.
 

cheese22

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If we get Kelly and McGovern early, I may just stop watching because I won't get any happier than that. Now I just wish Soko fulfills all that athleticism soon. I personally don't think Nembot has the testosterone to make it, the physical tools look good, but I've heard (I know!?) he's just not tough. Speaking of tough, Kelly and McGovern would be a nice welcome in that department.

I think there is a lot of talent in the middle rounds that could stick. I just hope they don't pull any names out of nowhere. This is the most studying I've done pre-draft so I'm hoping I actually know who we pick in the later rounds. Granted, my highest first-pick score has been in the mid 7k range, they don't like my late round picks of MacEvoy, Cajuste, Deondre Hall and even Keanu Neal gets a C grade in the 4th or 5th round. But I'd love Kelly and McGovern as Hawks.
 

hawkfan68

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I admire your posts firebee. However, I'm not confident that FO has an eye for OL talent. These are the guys who reached for Justin Britt in the 2nd round when he would have been there much later. They have had more misses on the OL than any other group. I hope that changes but their track record with the OL is very poor.
 

Scottemojo

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We are damn near a college program when it comes to the OL. No one is on the team more than 5 years, we have to redshirt half our linemen.

5 years tells me there is little reason for confidence. This O-line will have to be schemed around, not built around.
 

MB12

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cheese22":o2h5czdq said:
If we get Kelly and McGovern early, I may just stop watching because I won't get any happier than that. Now I just wish Soko fulfills all that athleticism soon. I personally don't think Nembot has the testosterone to make it, the physical tools look good, but I've heard (I know!?) he's just not tough. Speaking of tough, Kelly and McGovern would be a nice welcome in that department.

I think there is a lot of talent in the middle rounds that could stick. I just hope they don't pull any names out of nowhere. This is the most studying I've done pre-draft so I'm hoping I actually know who we pick in the later rounds. Granted, my highest first-pick score has been in the mid 7k range, they don't like my late round picks of MacEvoy, Cajuste, Deondre Hall and even Keanu Neal gets a C grade in the 4th or 5th round. But I'd love Kelly and McGovern as Hawks.
I love Hall from what I've read and what little I've seen. Need to study him in more detail. What do you think of him?
 

cheese22

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MB12":rh8arxex said:
cheese22":rh8arxex said:
If we get Kelly and McGovern early, I may just stop watching because I won't get any happier than that. Now I just wish Soko fulfills all that athleticism soon. I personally don't think Nembot has the testosterone to make it, the physical tools look good, but I've heard (I know!?) he's just not tough. Speaking of tough, Kelly and McGovern would be a nice welcome in that department.

I think there is a lot of talent in the middle rounds that could stick. I just hope they don't pull any names out of nowhere. This is the most studying I've done pre-draft so I'm hoping I actually know who we pick in the later rounds. Granted, my highest first-pick score has been in the mid 7k range, they don't like my late round picks of MacEvoy, Cajuste, Deondre Hall and even Keanu Neal gets a C grade in the 4th or 5th round. But I'd love Kelly and McGovern as Hawks.


I love Hall from what I've read and what little I've seen. Need to study him in more detail. What do you think of him?

I haven't seen a full game, just highlights. So a lot of what I know is from reading scouting reports and highlight tapes. He's very long and lean, fast but average quicks, good ball skills but not great instincts, a real ball hawk (13 career int's), plenty of confidence, aggressive tackler and he has played a lot of safety as well as some OLB. Sounds like Shead and Simon's love child. Most predictions have him 6th round or later.
 

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I approve of this message.
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firebee is maaaaannnnnnnnn
 

vin.couve12

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Soko? I like it....either I haven't been paying attention or I haven't heard that one.

Soko isn't just an athlete for the position. He is the one and only 4 sigma athlete that's been measured since SPARQ became SPARQ. Guys like Megatron and JJ Watt are mere 3 sigma athletes. If he can realize his potential.....just wow. If he realizes half of it we should have a player none the less.
 

vin.couve12

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firebee":19vuj23x said:
I had Three Little Birds talk to me about the OL today and they said "Don't worry about a thing cause every little thing is gonna be alright". No namebrand linemen have been brought in to be penciled in as starters and I'm kind of thinking we won't take an OT in the 1st like many expect us to. I'm expecting my fellow 12s to have a complete meltdown, but I'm going to listen to these three little birds sing a sweet song that is pure and true. I think they were saying this message is for you.

Between Gilliam and Sowell battling it out at LT, I'm comfortable with the winner of that battle starting for us. Ignore the PFF statistics. Ignore the negativity. Both Sowell and Gilliam got off to a rough start when they were thrown into a starting role, which caused their PFF statistics to nosedive right off the bat. What PFF statistics don't show is how they progressed. Both progressed extremely well as starters and both were very solid by the end of the season when they started. Whoever wins the start at LT will be locked in by the end of preseason and both of them have fared well against elite competition in the NFL when they're locked in. I think Webb's best shot is at RT, but maybe he surprises at LT, and I don't see us moving anybody that's over 6'6" to the inside, so just forget about Webb on the inside. Russell Wilson has to see over the line and putting a 6'7"+ lineman on the interior doesn't help that cause. Look for our staff to keep the interior height below 6'6".

As for the draft... I think a lot of 12s are going to be disappointed, but don't worry about a thing cause' every little thing is gonna be alright. I'm not sold on us taking an OT early. In consideration of the measurables, SPARQ and the schools our FO seems to target in the draft; my gut feeling tells me we're targeting Stephane Nembot out of Colorado, who's projected as a 6th or 7th round pick on most draft boards. Size, length, athleticism, demeanor, converted DE, and the program he comes from makes him the most likely target for us at OT when I look at the OTs in this draft. I wouldn't be surprised to see us go Ryan Kelly with our 1st pick, Connor McGovern in the 2nd or 3rd round and Stephane Nembot on the 3rd day to round out the depth and competition on our offensive line. All 3 players fit the mold we look for at the positions they're slotted at and all 3 come from programs that are system-friendly to our coaching staff.

I realize that no namebrand players is sending a vast majority of the 12s into a complete meltdown when it comes to the offensive line, but I like the direction our line is heading. By the time training camps roll around; we'll have Gilliam, Sowell and Webb competing for the start at left tackle. The losers of the battle at LT will be competing for the start at RT with Connor McGovern and Stephane Nembot. McGovern is likely a better fit for guard and his length isn't perfect for RT, but I could see our FO overlooking his length if he excels at RT. Then we'll have Lewis, Kelly and Pericak competing for the start at Center. If Lewis wins out at Center, Kelly and Pericak can compete with Glowinski, Britt, Sokoli and McGovern for the start at guard on either side. We have a ton of youth and a ton of depth on the line heading into the training camps. This is better than having a few penciled in guys with minimal depth competing for the start heading into preseason. Their is no upside in a unit with minimal depth and penciled in starters. That's a stagnant unit.

As of right now, I'm kind of thinking we'll end up with Gilliam or Sowell at LT, Britt or Glowinski at LG, Lewis or Kelly at Center, McGovern or Sokoli at RG and Webb or Nembot at RT. Of course... Training camps could tell us a different story, but this seems like the most likely scenario based on who we have and the tendencies of our FO in the draft . I just hope they find good fits before preseason, so they can start working the guys into their positions during preseason and let them develop some continuity before the regular season hits. If our staff can determine where these guys are best fit to play heading into the preseason and just use preseason to develop some continuity and let them settle in, I see us looking real good on the line heading into the regular season. Lots of quality depth, youth and athleticism. People just need to sit back, listen to the Three Little Birds and trust the process. Every little thing is gonna be alright.

Didn't I see PFF stats that suggested that Gilliam was one of the better tackles in football over the last 6 games? I think it was 1st in run blocking and 17th in pass pro. It really wouldn't surprise me if true. If his natural position really is on the left side I honestly think we're fine there. If Sowell challenges then all the better.

Curious as to why you project Soko on the right side though. Is the thinking that he wasn't tried on the right due to Sweezy being there? If that's the case, then why didn't Glow compete on the left side instead of Soko? I don't think we'll know the answer to that, but I also think that Glow has been a RG exclusively since college. Does that change anything? Hell if I know....

Also, I agree with the sort of idea of this post. Many football fans and even sports fans really love the big name flashy flashy. Doesn't necessarily mean it's the best thing or even the most feasible or plausible. I actually like the collection of athletes we have there.
 

vin.couve12

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And because the internet and jim beam....

scarface-quits-o.gif
 

Willyeye

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Firebee, you're a man after my own heart. I'm probably one of the few people out there who's as confident in our new O-Line as you are. Just a couple of things: I think Glow will be the RG. The other thing is that you forgot Nowak in the Guard competition...I think Nowak would have been a much better O-Lineman if he wasn't thrown in at Center with zero experience there. Also, given the tough schedule when Nowak was playing Center, he probably wasn't as bad as he looked. I think he'll be just fine to compete at Guard. This O-Line is going to surprise a lot of fans.
 

MontanaHawk05

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I can't convince myself that Pete is ready to let the whole "power running to wear you down" thing go, especially with Rawls not entirely proven as a workhorse. He won't want to stick to quick-firing spread unless he has to. So I'm more concerned with the run-blocking of our line that I am the pass blocking.

However, the entire OP is predicated on one of Sowell, Gilliam, or Webb matching Okung's ability at left tackle, and frankly, Okung wasn't horrible. He was a slightly above average left tackle. We've survived letting underrated linemen go (Carp, Breno, Unger) and then finding out what we lost by watching them succeed on other teams. I'm not sure left tackle, of all positions, is the one I want to tempt fate with now.

I'm thinking the depth we've obtained at OL is to give the front office freedom to adapt to the board, and not necessarily to get them out of drafting OL high.

BTW, I propose a "Mrs. Sowell" account nickname for firebee.
 

kearly

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Between Conklin, Coleman, and Ifedi, this is a really nice year to draft a left tackle with a late 1st. And even if they are all gone, Ryan Kelly looks like a very good center prospect. Any of those guys are as good or better as prospects like Joel Bitonio was a couple years ago. It's about as good of a late 1st round draft pool as you'll see for offensive tackles. You can't count on having options this good next year, or even at any time in the next several years.

I think it's a terrific opportunity for Seattle to take advantage of. I won't freak out if they pass on it, but unless they are extremely high on Garry Gilliam, for which I see scant evidence, I think it's an opportunity they will cash in on.

I expect Seattle to invest pretty heavily on OL and DL this year. I don't think PC/JS are even trying to hide this agenda all that much, either.
 
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