Rookie Upsides to Carroll Era Seahawks

Pandion Haliaetus

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Germaine Ifedi
RG: smarter JR Sweezy*
RT: smarter Breno Giacomini*

* with more upside

Niether players were horrible as Britt, Moffitt, or Carp in thier worst years for the Seahawks. Both were solid with dominant, physically imposing players that played with superb toughness. Both despite being incredibly raw initially were still growing into thier upside and position and earned decent contracts as free agents .

Ifedi though has the intelligence to be more consistent and quicker feet paired with elite length and athleticism to have more upside as a pass-proctector. Ifedi , 37 starts in SEC, also isnt as raw coming in as Sweezy (DT convert) and Giac (TE convert) were coming in even though Giac had a couple years getting settled at OT with thr Packers.

You could argue Sweezy's raw athletcism is better on paper but you could also argue the measurables would equalize in Ifedi's favor if Sweezy tested at 324 and Ifedi tested at 298.

Jarran Reed

DL: Heavier Demarcus Dobbs with Brandon Mebane's run-suffing talent with Beast Mode intensity.

Dobbs was a movable talent along the line that played smart, assignment correct football. Dobbs wasnt really adept at anything in particular, hence Mebane's talent infusion. Beast Mode because Reed plays with that level of physical tenacity and passion that more often than not will rally and inspire physicality.

CJ Prosise

RB: Fred Jackson with Percy Harvin potential as a move player. Prosise as a guy who can be versatile in the scheme as a 3rd down RB but has the talent and potential to tilt the field.

Nick Vannett

TE: Simple and clean Zach Miller. Perfect comp in size, athleticism, and blocking acumen. Recieving potential (although not as utilized Meyers system and perhaps under utilized by Cardele Jones) is similar as well when Vannett has been described as an effecient route runner with soft hands.

Rees Odhiambo

LG/T: Paul McQuistan with more upside. McQuistan was a servicable if not solid O-linemen. Like Odhiambo, McQuistan was athletically limited and served better as an OG than he did OT. However, McQuistan played with toughness and with consistency to who he was. Not a guy who could physically or athletically dominant but did enough of the right things to be a valuable starter.

Quinton Jefferson

Sub-282.5 lbs with better lower body strength and quicker hands (both trainable): Michael Bennett, reading Jefferson's scout profile he sounded like a poor man's Bennett. Perfect comp in size, length, similar athletic traits and skills, even being driven by family.

282.5+: Demarcus Dobbs with Hill's upside as a pass-rusher. Jefferson as a guy who can move around the line, play smart well-rounded football, who can penetrate and pressure, get clean up sacks but lacks the pure athleticism to be dominant at any one spot.

Alex Collins

RB: Robert Turbin ability, intagibles with the unique vision, and between the tackles physicality and mentality similar to Marshawn Lynch.

Joey Hunt

OC: Patrick Lewis with Max Unger's intangibles and center acumen. Stouty OC with arms on the shorter side plus athletically limited. However, Hunt checks every box of what an OC needs to be mentality on and off the field.

Kenny Lawler

WR: Ive seen comps to Houshmanzadeh but I trying to keep it in the Carroll era cant remember if he was cut after 2009 or 2010. Another one, ive seen is Ben Obomanu or better Kevin Norwood. But my comp is Sidney Rice. The one that lacked the explosion and athleticism of his younger years after injuries but was a dependable chain-mover and adept scorer.

Zac Brooks

RB/WR: This was the hardest comp as Seahawks havent really had a comparable talent in the Carroll era. Tall (6'1) but slim (185) RB. Pushing for a comp Id say, Golden Tate's underrated strength, physicality, mentality with Paul Richardson's body (ht, wt) and athletic smoothness. However, JS did say Brooks was 200 lbs. That could be true or a target. Perhaps in the VMAC visit they told him he needed to bulk up. So he would be about as stout as Tate but tad longer.
 

drrew

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Pandion Haliaetus":1v11n5qw said:
CJ Prosise

RB: Fred Jackson with Percy Harvin potential as a move player. Prosise as a guy who can be versatile in the scheme as a 3rd down RB but has the talent and potential to tilt the field.

Let's not get crazy. Percy Harvin had generational talent. Prosise while a nice 3rd down RB prospect, does not have Harvin potential.
 

Overseasfan

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I think Okung is a pretty good comparison for Ifedi. I feel like he could develop into a Pro Bowl tackle with both elite pass- and runblocking. They look a bit similar as well. Just hoping Ifedi doesn't get as many injuries as Okung.
 
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Pandion Haliaetus

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drrew":3fyhnw04 said:
Pandion Haliaetus":3fyhnw04 said:
CJ Prosise

RB: Fred Jackson with Percy Harvin potential as a move player. Prosise as a guy who can be versatile in the scheme as a 3rd down RB but has the talent and potential to tilt the field.

Let's not get crazy. Percy Harvin had generational talent. Prosise while a nice 3rd down RB prospect, does not have Harvin potential.

Lets at the most optimal outlook Prosise can develop into 75% of Harvins play-making ability but can apply it 100% of the time and be a cossumate teammate.

Thats still better than 100% of Harvin, applying himself 50% of the time.
 
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Pandion Haliaetus

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Overseasfan":188e8114 said:
I think Okung is a pretty good comparison for Ifedi. I feel like he could develop into a Pro Bowl tackle with both elite pass- and runblocking. They look a bit similar as well. Just hoping Ifedi doesn't get as many injuries as Okung.

I thought about Okung but we dont know if Ifedi can make that transition just yet.

I just figure under Cable, Ifedi will quickly become a run-blocking ass-kicker with his size regardless of what position on the right side. But in that with his intelligence, hed be more consistent and that he'll have potentially better success as a pass-protector.

Sweezy could be all-Pro someday. Not sure about Giacomini but I feel like hes been an above average RT with Jets but he also didnt become a full-time starter until later in his development. He's probably just entering his prime after 4 years of starting.

Maybe a better comparison for Ifedi at RT would have been 2nd half Gilliam with much more anchor and upside. Gilliam actually transformed himself into one of the best run-blockers and an average pass-protector by the end of the season compared to his RT peers and displayed enough against speed rushers as guy who can possibly be good at LT in the future.
 

Rob12

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drrew":1j4nhy9u said:
Pandion Haliaetus":1j4nhy9u said:
CJ Prosise

RB: Fred Jackson with Percy Harvin potential as a move player. Prosise as a guy who can be versatile in the scheme as a 3rd down RB but has the talent and potential to tilt the field.

Let's not get crazy. Percy Harvin had generational talent. Prosise while a nice 3rd down RB prospect, does not have Harvin potential.

I think "generational talent" is a term thrown around way too often. If Percy had that, he would have had an outstanding NFL career. Instead, it was filled with more potential than production.

It's unknown if Prosise has that type of talent. Completely impossible to know. But I don't think it's as asinine as you make it out to be.

Harvin was a monstrous weapon for a short period of time. But notice that when an offense was geared around him (first half of the 2014 season in Seattle), his numbers were not good. That's not an indictment on him as a player, but let's stop with the "generational talent" label, because you don't fizzle out as quick as he did if that were actually true.

This is not a generational talent:

http://www.nfl.com/player/percyharvin/80425/careerstats

Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice... Those are generational talents. You don't give out that label based on unrealized potential.
 

MizzouHawkGal

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Pandion Haliaetus":dyerasas said:
drrew":dyerasas said:
Pandion Haliaetus":dyerasas said:
CJ Prosise

RB: Fred Jackson with Percy Harvin potential as a move player. Prosise as a guy who can be versatile in the scheme as a 3rd down RB but has the talent and potential to tilt the field.

Let's not get crazy. Percy Harvin had generational talent. Prosise while a nice 3rd down RB prospect, does not have Harvin potential.

Lets at the most optimal outlook Prosise can develop into 75% of Harvins play-making ability but can apply it 100% of the time and be a cossumate teammate.

Thats still better than 100% of Harvin, applying himself 50% of the time.
Consummate sir. I do think you are way too optimistic about him but we're talking Seahawks and he is a Seahawk until proven different. I really hope you are right and I'm wrong by the way.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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Pandion Haliaetus":zbd7n37c said:
drrew":zbd7n37c said:
Pandion Haliaetus":zbd7n37c said:
CJ Prosise

RB: Fred Jackson with Percy Harvin potential as a move player. Prosise as a guy who can be versatile in the scheme as a 3rd down RB but has the talent and potential to tilt the field.

Let's not get crazy. Percy Harvin had generational talent. Prosise while a nice 3rd down RB prospect, does not have Harvin potential.

Lets at the most optimal outlook Prosise can develop into 75% of Harvins play-making ability but can apply it 100% of the time and be a cossumate teammate.

Thats still better than 100% of Harvin, applying himself 50% of the time.
Now wait a minute here, no one told me there'd be math on this site! :34853_doh:
 

bjornanderson21

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drrew":3gcycpc0 said:
Pandion Haliaetus":3gcycpc0 said:
CJ Prosise

RB: Fred Jackson with Percy Harvin potential as a move player. Prosise as a guy who can be versatile in the scheme as a 3rd down RB but has the talent and potential to tilt the field.

Let's not get crazy. Percy Harvin had generational talent. Prosise while a nice 3rd down RB prospect, does not have Harvin potential.
Let's not get crazy, Percy Harvin absolutely DID NOT have "generational talent".

His greatest ability was speed, yet he was never the fastest WR in the league.

His route-running was BELOW AVERAGE.

His hands were AVERAGE.


A really fast WR who can't run routes while having average hands is a once-every-other-year talent.


Am i the ONLY ONE (edit....Rob12 knows what's up) who notices that almost every year a WR or RB are considered "once in a generation" talents. That phrase loses any meaning when it gets used almost every year.



Harvin is the #1 most overrated player in NFL history. Please stop it.
 

IndyHawk

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Prosise when healthy can break tackles and get to the open area and once there nobody can stop him..He is very fast on the field,I like this pick more and more.He is not like Fred Jackson who can't catch,I'm not sure there is anyone who compares Hawk wise.
 

Atradees

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I think you did some nice work there.

Maybe Gilliam fails at left tackle. Britt may fail at center, then the entire line becomes in flux....let alone the other peices....like Webb. I hope for the best and all goes as projected.
 

MizzouHawkGal

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IndyHawk":1sq200s9 said:
Prosise when healthy can break tackles and get to the open area and once there nobody can stop him..He is very fast on the field,I like this pick more and more.He is not like Fred Jackson who can't catch,I'm not sure there is anyone who compares Hawk wise.
Dude , he isn't JUST a running back or JUST a wide receiver he's like Percy Harvin that has an actual clue with the physicality to back it up, much like Wilson.

Don't box him in because it's going to end badly for you and other people that don't get where modern era football is going.

Not that I like it but I accept and deal with it.
 

Jerhawk

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I liked your comparison of jarran reed having beast mode type aggression. That shows nicely on tape. I feel like of all the rookies, he seems to be getting the most hype, especially after impressing Kris richard in mini camp by knowing the defensive alignments of the entire defense. His football iq compares with Mebane and potentially Bennett (minus the offsides hopefully).

Also like the comparison of nick vannett to miller. Same blocking type tight end we've been missing since miller left. Would like to see what he can contribute in the passing game. Wouldn't be surprised if they kept him in as an additional blocker on passing plays similar to what miller did.
 

MizzouHawkGal

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drrew":1tidwdfv said:
Pandion Haliaetus":1tidwdfv said:
CJ Prosise

RB: Fred Jackson with Percy Harvin potential as a move player. Prosise as a guy who can be versatile in the scheme as a 3rd down RB but has the talent and potential to tilt the field.

Let's not get crazy. Percy Harvin had generational talent. Prosise while a nice 3rd down RB prospect, does not have Harvin potential.
Well, as long as he doesn't a five cent head like Harvin he should do just fine even though he has nowhere near his physical talent.
 
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Pandion Haliaetus

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Athletically, Prosise and Harvin are pretty comparable within listed numbers.

Prosise's splits (speed):
40 yd- 4.48s
20 yd- 2.64s
10 yd- 1.57s

Harvin's splits (speed):
40 yd- 4.42s
20 yd- 2.60s
10 yd- 1.59s

Prosise's jumps (explosion):
Vertical: 35.5 in
Broad: 121 in

Harvin's jumps (explosion):
Vertical: 36.5 in
Broad: 121 in

However, you need to account size:

Prosise 6'0, 220
Harvin 5'11, 192

Thats a 28 pound difference and it kinds of makes you go wow.

How both Harvin and Prosise are alike:

Harvin was a WR but became a gadget RB.

Prosise will be an RB but could be gadget WR.

Both accelerate into top gear rather quickly, both are dangerous in space.

Carroll stated that they had a special role in mind for Prosise and logically Harvin's role as a move player seems like what he had in mind.

What Prosise has over Harvin, Harvin while scrappy at times didnt have the size and physicality to be a legit RB between the tackles nor a pass protector like Prosise does.

Harvin was a rather average WR, so I dont think Prosise will have trouble in that sense. The bar wasnt set high in that regard to be a comparable hands and route-running guy.

What Harvin has over Prosise, Prosise has yet to show us the incredible vision Harvin had to find or project creases nor has the returning expertise Harvin had but Prosise might have potential to back up Lockett in that role.

However, Prosise, a former safety, does have the expertise to be an ace in ST coverage. He could become a killer gunner. Which imo is going to be more valuable than returner right now since Seahawks have an ace returner in Lockett but lost an ace gunner in Lockette.

All in all while Prosise does have some flaws to iron out like switching his ball arm and becoming a dependable pass proctector, the biggest difference between Prosise and Harvin is will Prosise be more available and a better teammate because like I said:

Even if Prosise has at maximum only 75% of Harvin's ability but can be a consummate teammate and apply himself 100% of the time that will be better than 100% of Harvin's ability but applying that 50% of the time and being a cancer to the team.

Realistically, Prosise is a better fit for this team being able to be a legit all-around dual threat RB with the size and physicality that fits the team's philosphy. As well as, be a potential ace on ST in coverage but posesses the versatility, acceleration and explosion to fill that move player role Harvin did and be a dangerous player in space.
 
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