OL Althleticism

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/...line-projections-detroit-lions-least-athletic

A Deetwah article that compares the RAS scores of all 32 teams. Interesting in that we pride ourselves on athleticism.

Rees and Lewis really drag us down. Other than that, pretty athletic. Wonder what it would look like with glow in there.

hawksfan515":fktmmyvj said:

Rees and Lewis really drag us down. Other than that, pretty athletic. Wonder what it would look like with glow in there.

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Regarding Rees; It's been speculated his scores were limited due to nagging injuries.

I'm not familiar with R.A.S. (Relative athletic score). How does it compare to SPARQ?

Right now the popular projected line is Gilliam - Glowinski - Britt - Ifedi - Webb, that would rank us a lot higher.

I'd rather have a good offensive line than simply an athletic one.

Offensive linemen who know how to block should receive preferential treatment over linemen who can run and jump.

Whatever happened to o linemen that could actually block?

Everyone is worried about athleticism, and we need players to block, not participate in the decathlon.

There appears to be pros and cons to either having your traditional hogs that are good, straight-up blockers, or athletic linemen who can get into space.

Without studying film (I know, I should, but I'm too lazy), I seem to recall that a lot of our best running plays over the past few years were the result of our linemen getting into space and making blocks that rely on athleticism. Now, that may come at the cost of getting really good pass blockers, but it makes sense considering that Wilson's scrambling ability can mitigate some of the poor blocking, and that we now know we can lean on a quick-passing scheme to get the ball out as well.

The scoring system seems pretty questionable, among other things it suggests that Alvin Bailey is a better athlete than Germain Ifedi, and a far better athlete than Russell Okung.

Time to admit the mistake and learn from it. Athleticism is a good quality for any athlete but an NFL Olinemen needs to be able to block first and foremost. Last season we had guys so worried about getting to their 2nd level blocks they were completely whiffing on their primary assignments.

kearly":142ftik1 said:

The scoring system seems pretty questionable, among other things it suggests that Alvin Bailey is a better athlete than Germain Ifedi, and a far better athlete than Russell Okung.

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Better than healthy Okung, bad foot Okung, or bad chicken wing Okung? I mean if you are comparing him to the guy that couldn't walk then yes he's more athletic. Anyway you ought to know that athletic doesn't mean he knows how to do his job. In most cases it just means he gets out of possition with greater ease.

brimsalabim":3i3g2x8m said:

kearly":3i3g2x8m said:

The scoring system seems pretty questionable, among other things it suggests that Alvin Bailey is a better athlete than Germain Ifedi, and a far better athlete than Russell Okung.

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Better than healthy Okung, bad foot Okung, or bad chicken wing Okung? I mean if you are comparing him to the guy that couldn't walk then yes he's more athletic. Anyway you ought to know that athletic doesn't mean he knows how to do his job. In most cases it just means he gets out of possition with greater ease.

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True, but wasn't one of the problems with Bailey that he couldn't keep his weight down? So athletic skills aside, I would think he wasn't as good of an athlete either.

HawkGA":wj00otq8 said:

brimsalabim":wj00otq8 said:

kearly":wj00otq8 said:

The scoring system seems pretty questionable, among other things it suggests that Alvin Bailey is a better athlete than Germain Ifedi, and a far better athlete than Russell Okung.

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Better than healthy Okung, bad foot Okung, or bad chicken wing Okung? I mean if you are comparing him to the guy that couldn't walk then yes he's more athletic. Anyway you ought to know that athletic doesn't mean he knows how to do his job. In most cases it just means he gets out of possition with greater ease.

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True, but wasn't one of the problems with Bailey that he couldn't keep his weight down? So athletic skills aside, I would think he wasn't as good of an athlete either.

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Bailey had exceptional quickness and agility for a big, stalky guy -- 4.90 40 at 312 lbs, 4.69 shuttle, and a 7.50 3-cone. He just wasn't a physical player with zero natural tendency to want to hit people.

I want to see one of these so called scoring systems that include the real specifics of OL play. You know things like Assignment Correct, Aggressiveness, Heart, Willingness to Initiate Contact, ect.. These lists about "Sparq" and "Athleticism" don't measure "ANY" of those attributes.

I would take a player with average Sparq and/or athleticism that had those abilities over those other lists very best players any day. You can teach five of those guys to be a better than average line, which would be more than enough with RW as the QB.

Enough with the experiments.

kf3339":205v7579 said:

I want to see one of these so called scoring systems that include the real specifics of OL play. You know things like Assignment Correct, Aggressiveness, Heart, Willingness to Initiate Contact, ect.. These lists about "Sparq" and "Athleticism" don't measure "ANY" of those attributes.

I would take a player with average Sparq and/or athleticism that had those abilities over those other lists very best players any day. You can teach five of those guys to be a better than average line, which would be more than enough with RW as the QB.

Enough with the experiments.

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I think that's what they attempted to do with Rees. He is not as quick as Bailey or as explosive as Okung, but he's a technically sound lineman who plays with physicality.

bjornanderson21":1wceini0 said:

I'd rather have a good offensive line than simply an athletic one.

Offensive linemen who know how to block should receive preferential treatment over linemen who can run and jump.

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Actually, if they jumped straight up at the snap, RW could pass beneath them.

Sent from my SC-02H using Tapatalk

kearly":5f4oqhjp said:

The scoring system seems pretty questionable, among other things it suggests that Alvin Bailey is a better athlete than Germain Ifedi, and a far better athlete than Russell Okung.

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I see a reference to looking up "Relative Athletic Scores" ...... but no linkage as to location or source. And without that, no formula or disclosure as to how a "Relative Athletic Scores" is arrived at. Without a disclosed definition, I really don't see how the article carries any weight or offers any value or insight.

Jville":1iktbog0 said:

kearly":1iktbog0 said:

The scoring system seems pretty questionable, among other things it suggests that Alvin Bailey is a better athlete than Germain Ifedi, and a far better athlete than Russell Okung.

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I see a reference to looking up "Relative Athletic Scores" ...... but no linkage as to location or source. And without that, no formula or disclosure as to how a "Relative Athletic Scores" is arrived at. Without a disclosed definition, I really don't see how the article carries any weight or offers any value or insight.

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RAS is the average of every combine drill that corresponds to their percentile at a position group.

For example, a 9.02 RAS for Garry Gilliam means he was better than 90% of offensive linemen in average combine drill and in the top 9.8%.

This is just one measure of overall athleticism. Of course, there are a number of problems with it. For one, not every drill is of equal value in measuring athleticism for offensive linemen. The vertical and 40 and not as valuable because offensive linemen are never asked to either jump straight in the air or run 40 yards downfield. There is also a problem with not accounting for relative size and length. I.e., it's more impressive for someone with 36'' arms to put up 25 reps on the bench press than it is for someone with 31'' arms to put 30 reps.

hawknation2016":3vqv6e5h said:

Jville":3vqv6e5h said:

kearly":3vqv6e5h said:

The scoring system seems pretty questionable, among other things it suggests that Alvin Bailey is a better athlete than Germain Ifedi, and a far better athlete than Russell Okung.

Click to expand...

I see a reference to looking up "Relative Athletic Scores" ...... but no linkage as to location or source. And without that, no formula or disclosure as to how a "Relative Athletic Scores" is arrived at. Without a disclosed definition, I really don't see how the article carries any weight or offers any value or insight.

Click to expand...

RAS is the average of every combine drill that corresponds to their percentile at a position group.

For example, a 9.02 RAS for Garry Gilliam means he is in the top 90.2% of offensive linemen in average combine drill.

This is just one measure of overall athleticism. Of course, there are a number of problems with it. For one, not every drill is of equal value in measuring athleticism for offensive linemen. The vertical and 40 and not as valuable because offensive linemen are never asked to either jump straight in the air or run 40 yards downfield. There is also a problem with not accounting for relative size and length. I.e., it's more impressive for someone with 36'' arms to put up 25 reps on the bench press than it is for someone with 31'' arms to put 30 reps.

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Thanks for responding. I just wish they had the courtesy to provide specific disclosure as to what was included and how what was included was weighted. I find no useful value in a presentation lacking disclosure.

Problem is you can be a great athlete but slow mentally to react and diagnose, they should have a shadow wall drill to measure reaction by offense and defensive lineman, I think it would help determine recognition and reaction skills,

Las week I saw an article in the Seattle Times sports section regarding the Seahawk OL. I believe in the article it was mentioned that Cable will play the 5 best guys. That's well and good but IMO, Cable has no clue in choosing the 5 best guys. If he chooses the 5 best guys like he did to start the last season....the Seahawks will be in major doo-doo. Cable's decisions regarding the OL have been mediocre at best. The Seahawk OL has been the weakest positon since he has been here and continues to be weak. It's not for the lack of focusing on the position either. They have focused on the position. It's the lack of who they deem to be "their guys" for the position. Choosing Britt in the 2nd when he's a FA at best is one of the stupid decisions and has Cable's fingerprints all over it. Seattle probably has 5 good lineman on the team among Odhiambo, Gilliam, Glow, Webb, Sowell, Ifedi, Lewis, but Cable won't play the best because some may not be his favorites. Just ridiculous.