Breaking down Seattle's Double Stacks formation on offense

MB12 · Jul 20, 2016

For detractors of Darrell Bevell, this piece I wrote may interest you. It's a detailed breakdown--including video and play charting--of Seattle's double stacks formation, a wrinkle in the Seahawks' offense that I feel is invaluable:

http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/teams-nfl ... le-stacks/

Please note that I don't want this thread to turn into a Bevell bashing/defending thread. Instead, it would be great if we could turn into an Xs and Os discussion.

What do you think of the piece?

Should Seattle run double stacks more often?

What's your favorite formation the Seahawks come out in? It could be on defense instead of offense.

Do you have a favorite play that Seattle run?

FlyingGreg · Jul 20, 2016

Great work. We need more of this kind of discussion.

It will be interesting to see if Bevell goes back to what was working well last season or has a different plan.

We can't afford these slow first half starts or taking 8 games to figure out what works.

They have a lot of talent on offense. The key will be finding the way to maximize it all.

Largent80 · Jul 20, 2016

My drums all have Bevelled edges.

MB12 · Jul 20, 2016

FlyingGreg":3o1y83md said:
Great work. We need more of this kind of discussion.

It will be interesting to see if Bevell goes back to what was working well last season or has a different plan.

We can't afford these slow first half starts or taking 8 games to figure out what works.

They have a lot of talent on offense. The key will be finding the way to maximize it all.

To be fair he did come out in double stacks very early. I think it was week 3. Personally I would like to see more of it.

The Panthers playoff first-half gameplan did annoy me. Then again that half was as bad as it has been with this RW era team

FlyingGreg · Jul 20, 2016

MB12":x6o614yk said:
FlyingGreg":x6o614yk said:

Great work. We need more of this kind of discussion.

It will be interesting to see if Bevell goes back to what was working well last season or has a different plan.

We can't afford these slow first half starts or taking 8 games to figure out what works.

They have a lot of talent on offense. The key will be finding the way to maximize it all.

Click to expand...

To be fair he did come out in double stacks very early. I think it was week 3. Personally I would like to see more of it.

The Panthers playoff first-half gameplan did annoy me. Then again that half was as bad as it has been with this RW era team

A lot of the first half game plans annoyed me...and a lot of us. My big beef with Bevell is it takes him too long to adjust, but then again that might be more on Pete and Tom Cable.

Double stacks... one thing that brings us tremendous value is the personnel groupings we can mix up in that alignment. *IF* Graham is back out there, defenses have to account for him. Whoever he is stacked with is going to have a great shot at getting open right away depending on how the defense decides to play the stack.

The other great benefit of the stack (or any formation that we have spread wide) is the natural running lanes it opens up. With Rawls back, defenses have to respect him...so what do they do?

A lot of intriguing possibilities.

Jerhawk · Jul 20, 2016

The double stack does seem to cause our opposition problems. I don't recall too many plays in this formation not getting us positive yardage. But imo, I think they use it must enough to keep the defense off balance. If they were to use it too much, I feel like it would be much easier to stop because there would be more tape on it.

My favorite formation is I formation 3 wide outs. This formation was a staple with Holmgren's playbook with Matt and Shaun, and Russell commands it just as efficiently. With the fullback leading the way on run plays between the guard and tackle, or passing plays which usually are a go route by Baldwin in the slot or Kearse running a ten yard hitch. Seems like something positive happens when we come out in this.

MB12 · Jul 20, 2016

FlyingGreg":104mj4xy said:
MB12":104mj4xy said:

FlyingGreg":104mj4xy said:

Great work. We need more of this kind of discussion.

It will be interesting to see if Bevell goes back to what was working well last season or has a different plan.

We can't afford these slow first half starts or taking 8 games to figure out what works.

They have a lot of talent on offense. The key will be finding the way to maximize it all.

Click to expand...

To be fair he did come out in double stacks very early. I think it was week 3. Personally I would like to see more of it.

The Panthers playoff first-half gameplan did annoy me. Then again that half was as bad as it has been with this RW era team

Click to expand...

A lot of the first half game plans annoyed me...and a lot of us. My big beef with Bevell is it takes him too long to adjust, but then again that might be more on Pete and Tom Cable.

Double stacks... one thing that brings us tremendous value is the personnel groupings we can mix up in that alignment. *IF* Graham is back out there, defenses have to account for him. Whoever he is stacked with is going to have a great shot at getting open right away depending on how the defense decides to play the stack.

The other great benefit of the stack (or any formation that we have spread wide) is the natural running lanes it opens up. With Rawls back, defenses have to respect him...so what do they do?

A lot of intriguing possibilities.

Yes definitely. I didn't want to make the piece too long, but perhaps I should have included the advantages more clearly. I'd love to see Prosise and Baldwin one side, Lockett and Richardson the other. Pure speed. The Graham factor would be very interesting too. As I said in the piece, they aren't adverse to putting tight ends in it. Helfet has lined up as a wideout in double stacks.

MB12 · Jul 20, 2016

Jerhawk":1gfszq2b said:
The double stack does seem to cause our opposition problems. I don't recall too many plays in this formation not getting us positive yardage. But imo, I think they use it must enough to keep the defense off balance. If they were to use it too much, I feel like it would be much easier to stop because there would be more tape on it.

My favorite formation is I formation 3 wide outs. This formation was a staple with Holmgren's playbook with Matt and Shaun, and Russell commands it just as efficiently. With the fullback leading the way on run plays between the guard and tackle, or passing plays which usually are a go route by Baldwin in the slot or Kearse running a ten yard hitch. Seems like something positive happens when we come out in this.

As I said in the article, it resulted in negative yardage on just two occasions. You are probably right there. I like how the Seahawks try to keep teams off-balance. Again, like I wrote, I will be keen to see how effective it is next year now teams have more film on it. To be honest, though, I'm not sure there is a concrete way of stopping it.

A slant is fairly hard to stop in man to man coverage with no safety help. Even if the safety is acting as a spy, he probably wouldn't be able to cover the slant due to the quick release of the throw required for that route. Then you have a screen option built in, which Seattle hasn't thrown yet out of this formation.

Running-wise, running inside-zone read against a max 7 man box is very hard to stop. The Cardinals should not have lined up with a 2i, but they were respecting the counter--a run that is possible out of this formation and could potentially be seen in the future. As has been pointed out, this creates excellent running lanes, and if the o-line do their job and the back hits the hole, this is very hard to stop.

ivotuk · Jul 20, 2016

Thank you for the article, and the discussion. :2thumbs:

dogorama · Jul 20, 2016

If I'm not mistaken this is essentially the same play that Chip Kelly used so successfully at Oregon. It is particularly effective if you can create mismatches and that lent itself well to Chip's no-huddle schemes. Unfortunately for Chip, his gimmicky offenses haven't translated well to the NFL where players are bigger, stronger, and faster. It's just another version of the spread and if you can get it off fast enough you help negate the lack of adequate O-line play. In the end though, you gotta have the horses if you want to succeed in the NFL.

Largent80 · Jul 20, 2016

We used to eat a lot of Wendy's double stacks.

Sonichellboy · Jul 20, 2016

Largent80":krj36g69 said:
My drums all have Bevelled edges.

But are the Bevells sharp or rounded?

UK_Seahawk · Jul 21, 2016

Is this the formation troy aikman says he's seen several times and we've never passed it. I think it's in the Cards game and the RB breaks off a big run? 45 yards for Michael on a second and 19?

Looks like it to me.

Edit: you mention this play in your write up. I just remember aikman saying we never throw from it.

kearly · Jul 21, 2016

I'm glad this is being discussed, good writeup! I've been a fan of this formation for a while now. It basically has three advantages:

1a. It forces four defenders COMPLETELY out of the box. These four defenders are usually DBs which means the box has no more than two linebackers. IIRC, the Seahawks ran the ball out of this play the first several times it was used. It basically telegraphed run yet was a highly effective for rushing despite being obvious in its intentions. Late last year Seattle started passing out of it as well with very good results.

1b. Another benefit of having less in the box is that it hamstrings a defense's ability to blitz.

2. It eliminates the need for quality WR blocking. Tyler Lockett and Paul Richardson are small framed guys that really struggle to run block, but in a formation like this it essentially doesn't matter since all four corners are on an island far away from the play.

3. It essentially guarantees 1 on 1 coverage, and as a nice bonus on these plays the leading WR will usually enjoy a free release since the corner at the line has to keep his jersey clean to protect against a screen. Most teams don't have four good corners so you can probably find a mismatch here if the line gives you time.

Really the whole play is a deviously clever method of forcing defenses to give receivers a 1v1 free release on go routes while being unable to blitz or stuff the box. It's an evil play.

I forgot who it was that invented this double stack play. Maybe Urban Meyer? I think it may have originated from a college spread team. Seattle is very good at being early adapters to new ideas.

MontanaHawk05 · Jul 21, 2016

I don't think a lot of people have criticisms of what Bevell showed in the last half of the season. The criticism is that he waited too long to unveil it, which might be just as much on Pete.

But yeah, I love this formation. We have a pretty heavy run tendency out of it, and the reason it makes defenses nervous is almost entirely Russell Wilson's mobility. Defenses would cheat against less mobile QBs. But I do lean forward every time I see this formation. At worst it's probably a 6-yard running pickup.

Hasselbeck · Jul 21, 2016

My only issue with this throughout the year was it telegraphed the play that was coming 9 times out of 10. Kind of like whenever Chris Matthews was in the huddle on a 1st or 2nd down you knew it was a run.

MB12 · Jul 21, 2016

kearly":1wve7bs6 said:
I'm glad this is being discussed, good writeup! I've been a fan of this formation for a while now. It basically has three advantages:

1a. It forces four defenders COMPLETELY out of the box. These four defenders are usually DBs which means the box has no more than two linebackers. IIRC, the Seahawks ran the ball out of this play the first several times it was used. It basically telegraphed run yet was a highly effective for rushing despite being obvious in its intentions. Late last year Seattle started passing out of it as well with very good results.

1b. Another benefit of having less in the box is that it hamstrings a defense's ability to blitz.

2. It eliminates the need for quality WR blocking. Tyler Lockett and Paul Richardson are small framed guys that really struggle to run block, but in a formation like this it essentially doesn't matter since all four corners are on an island far away from the play.

3. It essentially guarantees 1 on 1 coverage, and as a nice bonus on these plays the leading WR will usually enjoy a free release since the corner at the line has to keep his jersey clean to protect against a screen. Most teams don't have four good corners so you can probably find a mismatch here if the line gives you time.

Really the whole play is a deviously clever method of forcing defenses to give receivers a 1v1 free release on go routes while being unable to blitz or stuff the box. It's an evil play.

I forgot who it was that invented this double stack play. Maybe Urban Meyer? I think it may have originated from a college spread team. Seattle is very good at being early adapters to new ideas.

Thanks man.

All of your points are great.

I think it was Meyer, it's really prevalent in the college game

MB12 · Jul 21, 2016

UK_Seahawk":1zubje5i said:
Is this the formation troy aikman says he's seen several times and we've never passed it. I think it's in the Cards game and the RB breaks off a big run? 45 yards for Michael on a second and 19?

Looks like it to me.

Edit: you mention this play in your write up. I just remember aikman saying we never throw from it.

Looks like Aikman needs to study more tape in preparation for games. Two passing touchdowns came from this last year, as did two incompletions. (As noted in the article)

MB12 · Jul 21, 2016

MontanaHawk05":pi1zeocs said:
I don't think a lot of people have criticisms of what Bevell showed in the last half of the season. The criticism is that he waited too long to unveil it, which might be just as much on Pete.

But yeah, I love this formation. We have a pretty heavy run tendency out of it, and the reason it makes defenses nervous is almost entirely Russell Wilson's mobility. Defenses would cheat against less mobile QBs. But I do lean forward every time I see this formation. At worst it's probably a 6-yard running pickup.

Definitely Wilson's legs scare teams in this formation. Note how they are always dropping a safety down as a QB spy in fear of the read option keeper.

LolaRox · Jul 21, 2016

Thanks OP for posting your write up and starting this discussion, I too enjoy reading threads like this. They help me learn and explore the different facets/strategies of the game.

Can someone please take a few minutes and answer a couple questions for me?

Many have posted the benefits/advantages to this formation, but how do you stop it?

And if its that difficult to stop why don't the Seahawks run it more and why don't other teams run it?

TIA

Breaking down Seattle's Double Stacks formation on offense

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