Outside of right tackle, Seahawks offensive line appears set

dogorama · Aug 31, 2016

http://sportsradiokjr.iheart.com/articl ... -15061495/

I mentioned how Millen's comments echoed my observations re Gilliam last week in a thread and now it turns out that he is battling w/Webb for the starting RT spot. Going into the preseason the prevailing thought here was that Gilliam was our surest bet on the line and in fact, would be the starting LT. Then, partially due to a minor injury, Webb looked terribly out of shape after signing to come here. Everyone here it seemed (myself included) thought Webb was a real slug, but he has worked his butt off and now is competing for a starting role. The reality of life in the NFL changes day by day and sometimes hr by hr.

Thoughts?

McGruff · Aug 31, 2016

Disappointed that Gilliam couldn't take LT and run with it. I don't see Sowell as the future there, so hopefully Fant can make some massive strides over the next year.

titan3131 · Aug 31, 2016

McGruff":2j7bhtw9 said:
Disappointed that Gilliam couldn't take LT and run with it. I don't see Sowell as the future there, so hopefully Fant can make some massive strides over the next year.

Hoping Fant Can take the job of LT next year. He has shown great strides in 3 games. Eventually Gilliam has to walk or really step up.

Personally we should focus on a Pass rushing End and a LB in the draft or FA next year. Eventually Avril and Bennett will be too old... And currently Frank Clark is 60% hype.

Attyla the Hawk · Aug 31, 2016

McGruff":lox6yf0o said:
Disappointed that Gilliam couldn't take LT and run with it. I don't see Sowell as the future there, so hopefully Fant can make some massive strides over the next year.

Have to agree here. I expected Gilliam to really stake his claim this training camp. To basically be in a camp battle this late with two very suspect OT free agents (and having to be reverted to RT to do it) is disappointing to me.

I'm hoping it's due to other factors (Sowell looking better than expected and Webb's lack of availability). So on the surface it could be less dire than feared.

Tical21 · Aug 31, 2016

Millen also did make a solid point about switching sides. Not sure if it was in the above clip or not. Personally, I played mostly LT for my last three years of HS, and halfway through my senior season got switched to the right side (wishbone team that needed to run right), and I never felt comfortable over there. I had all my steps and footwork down, felt great hitting with my proper shoulder, had a great feel for combo blocks from the left. Switched to the right, and I went from all-league to above-average really quickly. Not saying that is the case here with Gilliam, but not all linemen are ambidextrous.

dogorama · Aug 31, 2016

Tical21":ose0txd6 said:
Millen also did make a solid point about switching sides. Not sure if it was in the above clip or not. Personally, I played mostly LT for my last three years of HS, and halfway through my senior season got switched to the right side (wishbone team that needed to run right), and I never felt comfortable over there. I had all my steps and footwork down, felt great hitting with my proper shoulder, had a great feel for combo blocks from the left. Switched to the right, and I went from all-league to above-average really quickly. Not saying that is the case here with Gilliam, but not all linemen are ambidextrous.

Millen's point was about his tendency to take such deep set-ups. It was something I had noticed also, but Gilliam's move to RT was just based on his poor play at LT and Sowell outplaying him. RT is generally considered to be the lesser skilled position.

McGruff · Aug 31, 2016

dogorama":1sxmrmz7 said:
Tical21":1sxmrmz7 said:

Millen also did make a solid point about switching sides. Not sure if it was in the above clip or not. Personally, I played mostly LT for my last three years of HS, and halfway through my senior season got switched to the right side (wishbone team that needed to run right), and I never felt comfortable over there. I had all my steps and footwork down, felt great hitting with my proper shoulder, had a great feel for combo blocks from the left. Switched to the right, and I went from all-league to above-average really quickly. Not saying that is the case here with Gilliam, but not all linemen are ambidextrous.

Click to expand...

Millen's point was about his tendency to take such deep set-ups. It was something I had noticed also, but Gilliam's move to RT was just based on his poor play at LT and Sowell outplaying him. RT is generally considered to be the lesser skilled position.

All true. The problem is that Gilliams skill set is really more appropriate for a LT. Webb is the prototype RT. Gilliams is more finesse and has trouble with the power ends he will continue to face at RT.

Attyla the Hawk · Aug 31, 2016

dogorama":10q4ezo5 said:
Millen's point was about his tendency to take such deep set-ups. It was something I had noticed also, but Gilliam's move to RT was just based on his poor play at LT and Sowell outplaying him. RT is generally considered to be the lesser skilled position.

I do believe this is conventional wisdom at this point. In the 90s/00s -- this held true. But the game has evolved since then:

1. Defenses have evolved.

Teams are loading up on pairs of pass rushers. Both sides have more talent there due to increased supply from college. Athletes are choosing to be pass rushers because it's an alpha function in the NFL. You see even bad teams featuring good pass rush bookends.

Additionally, DCs are now moving their rushers around for better matchups. More teams are employing hybrid players who possess good pass rush ability.

2. Offenses have changed.

Teams are much more pass oriented. Meaning you don't see a lot of great run blocking OTs. So as a defense, you aren't susceptible to having an undersized DE on the strong side anymore. Many teams don't even employ a TE. Or if they do -- he's an out wide TE. The days of a blocking inline DE are almost as dead as a two back set.

The game of today means your RT is almost as important as your left. Because they are on the edge without a 'strong side' and they aren't facing hulking DEs whose responsibility is to set the edge and stuff the run. Because nobody runs anymore. That DE on the left is now a ears pinned back OLB or pass rush end. Von Miller made himself a league MVP candidate by feasting on RTs and so have many other stars (Mario Williams/JJ Watt/Cameron Wake).

In today's NFL, you need two OTs like you need two DEs. They are virtually equally important. If I'm a DC in this league, I'm lining my best pass rusher on the left until the offensive personnel catch up with today's reality.

dogorama · Aug 31, 2016

Attyla the Hawk":1eyvatpf said:
dogorama":1eyvatpf said:

Millen's point was about his tendency to take such deep set-ups. It was something I had noticed also, but Gilliam's move to RT was just based on his poor play at LT and Sowell outplaying him. RT is generally considered to be the lesser skilled position.

Click to expand...

I do believe this is conventional wisdom at this point. In the 90s/00s -- this held true. But the game has evolved since then:

1. Defenses have evolved.

Teams are loading up on pairs of pass rushers. Both sides have more talent there due to increased supply from college. Athletes are choosing to be pass rushers because it's an alpha function in the NFL. You see even bad teams featuring good pass rush bookends.

Additionally, DCs are now moving their rushers around for better matchups. More teams are employing hybrid players who possess good pass rush ability.

2. Offenses have changed.

Teams are much more pass oriented. Meaning you don't see a lot of great run blocking OTs. So as a defense, you aren't susceptible to having an undersized DE on the strong side anymore. Many teams don't even employ a TE. Or if they do -- he's an out wide TE. The days of a blocking inline DE are almost as dead as a two back set.

The game of today means your RT is almost as important as your left. Because they are on the edge without a 'strong side' and they aren't facing hulking DEs whose responsibility is to set the edge and stuff the run. Because nobody runs anymore. That DE on the left is now a ears pinned back OLB or pass rush end. Von Miller made himself a league MVP candidate by feasting on RTs and so have many other stars (Mario Williams/JJ Watt/Cameron Wake).

In today's NFL, you need two OTs like you need two DEs. They are virtually equally important. If I'm a DC in this league, I'm lining my best pass rusher on the left until the offensive personnel catch up with today's reality.

I don't doubt what you say except that LT is typically blind-side and if you beat your man you have a much better chance of causing a fumble, thus, LT is definitely more important.

RCATES · Aug 31, 2016

I'll take a question mark at RT over what we had to start last year. I believe only the RG in Schweezy and LT Okung was the only staple.

DavidSeven · Aug 31, 2016

Was it that Sowell won the job, or that Gilliam failed so deeply to establish himself as a viable option at LT that Sowell got it by default? I can't say I know for sure, but that would tell us a lot about whether or not we should be comfortable with what we have at LT this year. It looks like they figured out pretty early on that it wasn't going to work there for Garry, though perhaps not early enough to adequately address the left-side during the FA period. With Webb hurt and everyone else inexperienced, the competition on the left looks like it was pretty woeful.

So, even though LT is "settled," I still see that as a huge question mark going into the season.

dogorama · Aug 31, 2016

DavidSeven":bvgwai7e said:
Was it that Sowell won the job, or that Gilliam failed so deeply to establish himself as a viable option at LT that Sowell got it by default? I can't say I know for sure, but that would tell us a lot about whether or not we should be comfortable with what we have at LT this year. It looks like they figured out pretty early on that it wasn't going to work there for Garry, though perhaps not early enough to adequately address the left-side during the FA period. With Webb hurt and everyone else inexperienced, the competition on the left looks like it was pretty woeful.

So, even though LT is "settled," I still see that as a huge question mark going into the season.

No question, the offensive tackles followed by the SAM are the two big question marks going into the season. Like I have said before, we can negate much of the pass blocking problems by being a really good run blocking team. Obvious passing downs could be very problematic.

MontanaHawk05 · Aug 31, 2016

I always thought Gilliam's improvement last year was a bit overstated. It was mostly the change in scheme that helped him.

That said, it did make him serviceable. So I wouldn't be surprised if he managed to hold on to the job, even with Webb making a push.

kearly · Aug 31, 2016

Tical21":3qzawluy said:
Millen also did make a solid point about switching sides. Not sure if it was in the above clip or not. Personally, I played mostly LT for my last three years of HS, and halfway through my senior season got switched to the right side (wishbone team that needed to run right), and I never felt comfortable over there. I had all my steps and footwork down, felt great hitting with my proper shoulder, had a great feel for combo blocks from the left. Switched to the right, and I went from all-league to above-average really quickly. Not saying that is the case here with Gilliam, but not all linemen are ambidextrous.

It was the same for me. LT the first couple years, then moved to RT as a senior because our team ran the ball a lot and wanted their best linemen on the right.

I was probably 1% less comfortable on the right (I'm a lefty), so for me it wasn't a huge deal, but I could see how even a little discomfort could make a world of difference when competing at the elite levels. Mostly it was just nice having that left plant arm on the outside when at LT to help cheat a little with an outside forward lean to help turn that DE's shoulder on off-tackle runs. Pretty minor, but noticeable. Footwork on dropbacks always seemed second nature to me for some reason.

nanomoz · Aug 31, 2016

They have exceeded expectations this far, I hope that continues once games count.

Bummer about Gilliam. I expected him to be solidly entrenched at left tackle. He is probably the least gritty, but he's certainly the one most capable at handling speed pass rushers.

kf3339 · Aug 31, 2016

I'm just glad that the interior seems pretty set and could be an above average group in rush and pass blocking this season. More than anything that is what I remember about the line last season.

Our interior O-Line then looked just pathetic and made me seriously fear from RW safety every play. Yes, they were that bad. :roll:

StoneCold · Aug 31, 2016

DavidSeven":2ndnnuv0 said:
Was it that Sowell won the job, or that Gilliam failed so deeply to establish himself as a viable option at LT that Sowell got it by default? I can't say I know for sure, but that would tell us a lot about whether or not we should be comfortable with what we have at LT this year. It looks like they figured out pretty early on that it wasn't going to work there for Garry, though perhaps not early enough to adequately address the left-side during the FA period. With Webb hurt and everyone else inexperienced, the competition on the left looks like it was pretty woeful.

So, even though LT is "settled," I still see that as a huge question mark going into the season.

Could it be that with Webb hurt they had to put Sowell at LT early with Gilliam going to RT. By the time Webb was back and competing they were happy with Sowell at LT. They know what they have in Gilliam so Webb is getting more looks at RT in preseason while they evaluate him for either a starting, backup or trade possibilities.

Seafan · Aug 31, 2016

Something that hasn't been mentioned much if at all is that Gilliam missed OTAs and minicamp while Sowell took every snap at LT during that time.

Sowell is on a one year contract. There is a good chance IMO that Gilliam becomes the LT next year.

dogorama · Aug 31, 2016

Seafan":3d7zd5ec said:
Something that hasn't been mentioned much if at all is that Gilliam missed OTAs and minicamp while Sowell took every snap at LT during that time.

Sowell is on a one year contract. There is a good chance IMO that Gilliam becomes the LT next year.

Actually, I want to see Ifedi there, that is what we drafted him for. Then move Rees Odhiambo to Ifedi's guard spot. I believe Ifedi and Glowinski will be an all-pros. Hopefully Gilliam can mature into the RT spot.

raisethe3 · Aug 31, 2016

I wonder if Ifedi can be tried at LT? I mean this guy got the attitude for it. Don't know if he has the discipline/skill set for it though.

Outside of right tackle, Seahawks offensive line appears set

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