THE "BIG NICKEL" D

I started to post this in another thread and then thought that because it seems to be a hot topic it deserved its own thread:

I am intrigued by the 4-2-5 as well because unlike typical nickel packages, we are employing an extra safety. It's called the "Big Nickel" defense and it is just what the doctor ordered. This goes back to the mid 90's Packer's D and is a current defensive trend in the NFL as it addresses popular offensive schemes that are being utilized today. In other words, stuff we got burned on last year. This is good coaching because it demonstrates adaptability.

Here's a good article that talks about it:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... sive-trend

dogorama":nani8ocp said:

I started to post this in another thread and then thought that because it seems to be a hot topic it deserved its own thread:

I am intrigued by the 4-2-5 as well because unlike typical nickel packages, we are employing an extra safety. It's called the "Big Nickel" defense and it is just what the doctor ordered. This goes back to the mid 90's Packer's D and is a current defensive trend in the NFL as it addresses popular offensive schemes that are being utilized today. In other words, stuff we got burned on last year. This is good coaching because it demonstrates adaptability.

Here's a good article that talks about it: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... sive-trend

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Bunk link?!?

Don't think the link is direct. Or is it just me?

Link didn't work for me either.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... sive-trend

Should be that one I think.

RobDaHawk":yhip7xxq said:

Link didn't work for me either.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... sive-trend

Should be that one I think.

Click to expand...

Yeah, i fixed it. it worked and then it didn't work.

This is a good D for 2-TE packages also. Look for NE to terrorize the rest of the NFL w/their Gronkowski/Bennett 2-TE alignments.

Nice article. So who's our guy in this package?

I thought we'd been doing this (the "big nickel") for several years. In one way, this is to defense teams that are imitating our offense, with all of the runs out of the spread, including the zone read plays. We may not have been first, but I think we're the trend setter for these changes, because we've been successful doing it.

sutz":2hxg40r6 said:

I thought we'd been doing this (the "big nickel") for several years. In one way, this is to defense teams that are imitating our offense, with all of the runs out of the spread, including the zone read plays. We may not have been first, but I think we're the trend setter for these changes, because we've been successful doing it.

Click to expand...

We may have been doing variations of it situationally but it's pretty obvious that if we were, we wouldn't have gotten burned so often as we did last year. No, I think this is one of those times where we are behind the curve.

They need to stop manning up Tes against linebackers. Carrol seems to insist on this no matter what, in the superbowl gronk burned KJ for a TD. And ive seen multiple times of how Tes torched the linebackers last year,i know they have athletic linebackers but they need to start manning up big guys like sherman and shead against Tes sometimes.

For example in SB50 broncos put talib or some other corner on Greg Olsen and shut him down the majority of the game. Dont get why carrol never tries this.

Well maybe with all these safeties we will now. It's pretty much the role of what we all assumed Browner came back for. It's odd that he never played that role in preseason however.

Hawk-A-Loogie":3dt6qsb0 said:

Nice article. So who's our guy in this package?

Click to expand...

I think it depends on the situation and personnel. Like the article says, a hybrid linebacker/cornerback, ideally you want big, rangy, and fast. Of course Bam-Bam comes to mind and the new safety, McDonald, while not exceptionally tall at 6'-6'1, goes 220 lbs and can hit while still being very fast. Same with McCray who is slightly smaller. I could also see Powell here but he needs to add some physicality to his game.

Edit: Whoever it is, they have to be able to do what the typical LB cannot do, cover the really speedy new TE's.

Actually, I don't know if this is what they are planning and I am sure they are not going to tell you, but the preponderance of safety's and the recent discussion here of the 4-2-5 is why I posted it.

dogorama":31q5wpvj said:

Hawk-A-Loogie":31q5wpvj said:

Nice article. So who's our guy in this package?

Click to expand...

I think it depends on the situation and personnel. Like the article says, a hybrid linebacker/cornerback, ideally you want big, rangy, and fast. Of course Bam-Bam comes to mind and the new safety, McDonald, while not exceptionally tall at 6'-6'1, goes 220lbs and can hit. Same with McCray who is slightly smaller.

Actually, I don't know if this is what they are planning and I am sure they are not going to tell you, but the preponderance of safety's and the recent discussion here of the 4-2-5 is why I posted it.

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Well I'm glad you made it its own thread. Maybe PC/JS will have their own separate variation of it. We usually seem to be at the forefront when it comes to schemes that the rest of the league has yet to aquire or went away from for a particular reason. Just like their Hybrid 4-3 that no one else did quite like us.

The hybrid CB/safety role may be what the Seahawks envisioning for Ty Powell. It could be reason why he's played quite a bit of corner in preseason. Shead seems to be a fit for that too. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

I really hope you are all right about the defense. Because the defense in the preseason has ranged from average to horrific. And I don't buy the "It's just preseason we are all vanilla" argument because we are also happily blitzing corners & safeties in the preseason.

The defense doesn't have the depth and it is clearly missing some of its teeth.

So the hope is being hinged on this new defense that will ride in and save the day?

So I am supposed to believe that we put together this amazing new defense, which we never showed in preseason - which means none of our guys have actual experience in this scheme against actual opponents?

Then we spend all preseason evaluating guys but not in the very defense that we are supposed going to rollout?

All in order to keep it 'secret' to get some weird advantage for one game, even though that means 4 less games to work out the kinks, gaps and issues that always arise when rolling out a new system? To say nothing of identifying key weaknesses & strengths that our starters have when implementing this system?

I am going to hope you are all correct, because this sounds very close to whistling past the graveyard to me.

RobDaHawk":1u7wkesi said:

Well maybe with all these safeties we will now. It's pretty much the role of what we all assumed Browner came back for. It's odd that he never played that role in preseason however.

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Correct. And they never played it because it's preseason and why tip your hand in some glorified practice games? Yes preseason is pretty much a waste of time in nearly all cases, realize and accept it. It's obvious the 4/2/5 or some variation of it is coming from the fact that Clark is playing lighter to the fact we have 4 linebackers and 7 safeties.

You realize that once you use that defense in game 1, you "tipped your hand"?

Why the need for so much cloak and dagger for one game against a team that is essentially a dumpster fire, that you are getting to play at home? Wouldn't the extra work in a new system be worth it?

When the Seahawks were winning big, everyone knew what they were doing but they out-executed and nobody could stop them.

TwistedHusky":4dlrvf1q said:

You realize that once you use that defense in game 1, you "tipped your hand"?

Why the need for so much cloak and dagger for one game against a team that is essentially a dumpster fire, that you are getting to play at home? Wouldn't the extra work in a new system be worth it?

When the Seahawks were winning big, everyone knew what they were doing but they out-executed and nobody could stop them.

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But that was then and this is now. Everyone found the exact way to trash our old scheme whether we out awesome them or not. Time to not play so simple and do something about where offenses are evolving to. Pete is a defensive wizard and is always ahead of the curve just like 2010 with his version of the 4-3 over*/cover 3 single high safety. Other teams are just starting to attempt our defense, perfect time to evolve. Switch it up depending on the situation like anyone sane would do.

*I forget if it's over or under.

TwistedHusky":1e7ovl2e said:

You realize that once you use that defense in game 1, you "tipped your hand"?

Why the need for so much cloak and dagger for one game against a team that is essentially a dumpster fire, that you are getting to play at home? Wouldn't the extra work in a new system be worth it?

When the Seahawks were winning big, everyone knew what they were doing but they out-executed and nobody could stop them.

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That's like saying once you use the zone read option you have "tipped your hand." Sorry dude (Edit: dudette? who said that?) but it just doesn't work that way. The Big Nickel is something you are going to employ against teams that have certain personnel and alignments that it works against e.g. Greg Olsen at Carolina, NE's Gronkowski and their 2-TE sets, etc. It isn't your base D.