Washington Post Article on Seahawk's O-Line

"Seahawks, and Russell Wilson, may finally pay the price for ignoring offensive line"

"So is this the year Schneider’s gamble finally goes sour? We can’t know that answer right now. It’s a question though that should worry Seahawks fans as the stakes at the moment could not be higher. With Wilson battling a bad ankle that could limit his mobility, he may be more susceptible to punishment than ever before. And given the shaky history of the Seattle line, that’s saying something."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spo ... sive-line/

I think there is merit.

I mean what if the difference in realizing a dynasty is
the offensive line? Utilizing young talent is a method of managing the cap that has worked for us.
Have we been doing this for too long with the Oline? Could we not have picked up some mid level vets for the line?

dogorama":jhg60b03 said:

"Seahawks, and Russell Wilson, may finally pay the price for ignoring offensive line"

"So is this the year Schneider’s gamble finally goes sour? We can’t know that answer right now. It’s a question though that should worry Seahawks fans as the stakes at the moment could not be higher. With Wilson battling a bad ankle that could limit his mobility, he may be more susceptible to punishment than ever before. And given the shaky history of the Seattle line, that’s saying something."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spo ... sive-line/

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This line has never played together before this season in their current roles. I'm not sure if shaky history has any real role in evaluating the current line beyond saying they're not seasoned. Better to say they are a lot of question marks still. I didn't think they played horribly against a good Dolphin's line; certainly not as bad as numerous games early last year where Russ was brought down at least once each possession or more, it seemed.

Not concerned at all. Ask the local media how concerned they are.

The Hawks have gone cheap at the backup QB spot. That is more likely to bite the team in the butt than anything else, and honestly Boykin would provide the same result as TJack.

I'm acutally expecting 2016 OL > 2015 OL. This is progress.

They leave out the 2 1st round picks who were on the roster along with the 2nd round Center. If Okung, Carpenter and Unger could have stayed healthy, we wouldn't be reading about this.

I think Pete and John have a good strategy, max out your cap on the QB, WR, TE and formerly the RB, AND on keeping the defense elite.

Next, hire the best OLine coach money can buy, and pick up mid range Olinemen, toss in a few late round picks and UDFA because that produces occasionally, and add an athletic Dlinemen to the mix in order to remain under the cap (barely).

Next, pick the ones you think will have the most availability to improve continuity, and there you go! The same 5 guys playing together all year loing! Something we seem to never have! But then our 1st round pick from 2016 (who I neglected to mention) gets hurt.

So, they have invested money in free agents and re-signing 1st (3 each) round picks, 2nd round picks (2 each) etc.

But Okung, Carpenter, and Unger struggled with health, while Sweezy and Giacomini left for more money.

I think this years line of Sowell, Glowinski, Britt, Ifedi and Giiliam could be our best line yet, once they start playing together.

good read tho

ivotuk":3k8oz20s said:

They leave out the 2 1st round picks who were on the roster along with the 2nd round Center. If Okung, Carpenter and Unger could have stayed healthy, we wouldn't be reading about this.

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Yep. Mentioning those two first round picks doesn't fit in the narrative of the story. From 2012-2014, which is a majority of the years the author says Schneider neglected the o-line, we actually had a top-10 pick at LT, a first round pick at guard, and a Pro Bowl center. At that point it didn't seem necessary to invest more high draft picks into the o-line.

That's what the national narrative is until proven wrong. Understandable.

Erebus":q19ldk7e said:

ivotuk":q19ldk7e said:

They leave out the 2 1st round picks who were on the roster along with the 2nd round Center. If Okung, Carpenter and Unger could have stayed healthy, we wouldn't be reading about this.

Click to expand...

Yep. Mentioning those two first round picks doesn't fit in the narrative of the story. From 2012-2014, which is a majority of the years the author says Schneider neglected the o-line, we actually had a top-10 pick at LT, a first round pick at guard, and a Pro Bowl center. At that point it didn't seem necessary to invest more high draft picks into the o-line.

Click to expand...

And everyone assumed they sucked because Wilson was running for his life. There was no mention in the media of spurious factors - Wilson running just because he likes to run, Pete and Bevell stubbornly forcing a demanding-on-the-line playstyle better suited for Dallas, inconsistent openness from his receivers, etc. The media never gets that deep with their analysis. Carpenter wasn't even that gimpy. He just got crucified because of a bad first year and nobody ever checked in subsequent years to see if he was any better (he was). Now all of our best OL players are elsewhere and people are finally realizing "Oh...maybe they weren't that bad after all".

Fortunately, it's not going to matter. Pete and Bevell have swallowed their pride and adopted a playstyle that doesn't force extra protection demands on the OL, while Russell and his receiver get better with each passing year. He got himself sacked at least once against the Dolphins.

And if one minor ankle sprain is the only price we pay after four years, four playoff visits, two Halas trophies and a Lombardi...I'm not complaining. The media reaaaalllllyyy needs to get over this idea that the OL is the force keeping the universe together.

They should look right down the road at the Redskins and their whiff on the recent Oline picks as well. Its a gamble really no matter how you slice and dice it.

What they were pointing out was that:

Four years of drafts, one lone pick spent on an offensive lineman before the fourth round.

Click to expand...

That's 2012-2015

And, if your strategy is to not spend money on the O-Line (which is what happened when those players were not re-signed) wouldn't it behoove you to replace those high draft pick players?

That, I believe, is the point the article is trying to make.

dogorama":2sxn4vef said:

What they were pointing out was that:

Four years of drafts, one lone pick spent on an offensive lineman before the fourth round.

Click to expand...

That's 2012-2015

And, if your strategy is to not spend money on the O-Line (which is what happened when those players were not re-signed) wouldn't it behoove you to replace those high draft pick players?

That, I believe, is the point the article is trying to make.

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That looks like tailoring stats to embellish a case.

In the three years prior to that, we spent 2 first round picks and a third round pick. You can't spend day 1/2 picks every single year.

As for mid level vets -- who would we have been targeting? Easy to say. But also mid level guys (Giacomini, Carpenter and Sweezy are making 5-7m per season. Who would we be losing? Because that factors in too.

It's kind of a lazy narrative. Clearly just picking a guy high in the draft doesn't ensure success. If we missed on guys, then you have to show who was available that we should have taken and account for the guys we did take (either by pick or in trade).

It's kind of funny that the low/midlevel vets we did pick up are generally considered the weakest members of the group to begin with.

I actually enjoyed watching the game the 3rd time, I saw guys battling out there that weren't even supposed to start against a very good DL.

Patriots have been getting away with it a lot longer than Seattle. No one's worried about them.

LOL ..... Mike Renner writes for Pro Football Focus. His article is written in lock step with his benefactor.

The Washington Post may pay a fee to publish a Pro Football Focus article. But, make no mistake, that article is biased thru the self enriching lenses of Pro Football Focus.

dogorama":b4w4dqy2 said:

What they were pointing out was that:

Four years of drafts, one lone pick spent on an offensive lineman before the fourth round.

Click to expand...

That's 2012-2015

And, if your strategy is to not spend money on the O-Line (which is what happened when those players were not re-signed) wouldn't it behoove you to replace those high draft pick players?

That, I believe, is the point the article is trying to make.

Click to expand...

Well, when Okung walked, they did invest a 1st round pick in the o-line.

Erebus":v3e0t9vn said:

ivotuk":v3e0t9vn said:

They leave out the 2 1st round picks who were on the roster along with the 2nd round Center. If Okung, Carpenter and Unger could have stayed healthy, we wouldn't be reading about this.

Click to expand...

Yep. Mentioning those two first round picks doesn't fit in the narrative of the story. From 2012-2014, which is a majority of the years the author says Schneider neglected the o-line, we actually had a top-10 pick at LT, a first round pick at guard, and a Pro Bowl center. At that point it didn't seem necessary to invest more high draft picks into the o-line.

Click to expand...

Gotta be able to foresee these problems.

Unger was traded because of health? Really?

Saints would give up a top 3 TE for a Center with questionable *anything*?

NINEster":2fa15706 said:

Erebus":2fa15706 said:

ivotuk":2fa15706 said:

They leave out the 2 1st round picks who were on the roster along with the 2nd round Center. If Okung, Carpenter and Unger could have stayed healthy, we wouldn't be reading about this.

Click to expand...

Yep. Mentioning those two first round picks doesn't fit in the narrative of the story. From 2012-2014, which is a majority of the years the author says Schneider neglected the o-line, we actually had a top-10 pick at LT, a first round pick at guard, and a Pro Bowl center. At that point it didn't seem necessary to invest more high draft picks into the o-line.

Click to expand...

Gotta be able to foresee these problems.

Unger was traded because of health? Really?

Saints would give up a top 3 TE for a Center with questionable *anything*?

Click to expand...

Obviously they did. He played only 19 games from 2013-2014. And the real return for the Saints was the 1st round pick.

Carpenter and Unger have both stayed healthy and played above their contracts. Both have helped reshape the running offenses for their new teams. Unger even got a new deal.

Okung is in shape and helped CJ Anderson look like the best running back in the NFL last week

I have argued this before, but maybe it's not the players, but actually the system, that gets our guys hurt. Note that JR Sweezy also hid a severe back issue when he signed with TB.

This current OL still has a lot to prove. I know people are talking up the Miami DL because of the individual talent, but as a unit, they were arguably the worst run defense last year and created no pressure on QBs either. The OL will be tested again by much better defensive units.

I expect Miami to show just how much better their defense is than anyone thinks against the Pats this week.

DavidSeven":2yb481t2 said:

Carpenter and Unger have both stayed healthy and played above their contracts. Both have helped reshape the running offenses for their new teams. Unger even got a new deal.

Okung is in shape and helped CJ Anderson look like the best running back in the NFL last week

I have argued this before, but maybe it's not the players, but actually the system, that gets our guys hurt. Note that JR Sweezy also hid a severe back issue when he signed with TB.

This current OL still has a lot to prove. I know people are talking up the Miami DL because of the individual talent, but as a unit, they were arguably the worst run defense last year and created no pressure on QBs either. The OL will be tested again by much better defensive units.

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Can't disagree w/anything you say and I don't have any problem w/the article either, in fact, they are basically stating the obvious. Schneider stated publically that the O-Line didn't get this way "intentionally" and I believe the consensus of opinion around the league is that they let it get away from them.

It's clear that in the years 2012-2015 there should have been draft picks higher than round 4. They had made a decision that they were going to spend their money on core players and no players on the O-Line were identified as such. Last year we paid a price for that, I don't think anybody in their right mind would not admit that the reason we fell back was squarely on the O-line.

Going into 2012 it was clear that we had finally built a playoff team that could compete for the Super Bowl, the very next year we won it in dominating fashion. In 2014 we went back and nearly established a claim to at least a preliminary claim to dynasty status. Of course, we all know what happened there and in '15. Now this year we still find ourselves w/the nucleus of a SB team again and still a chance for a potential dynasty. There is only one thing that can stop this team and if that happens it will be one of the biggest wastes of talent ever. In spite of all the great moves that PCJS have made, if it all comes down to the failure to put together even a mediocre line, it will be considered one of the biggest blunders in modern NFL history.