Why does everyone insist we can't win with Boykin?

First off...

Absolutely, of course, no doubt, 100%, we statistically have a much better chance of winning with Russell playing. We all concede that. Also, I'll admit that Boykin can't lead this team into serious playoff contention. Hell, I'm by no means a Boykin fan, but let's think about this a second. The common tone of this board right now (see play Russell poll et al.) is that resting Russell guarantees defeat. I disagree. Especially against the Jets. Here are some thoughts:

1. OUR DEFENSE.
Except for some garbage time soft zone stuff, our defense doesn't allow opponents to score touchdowns. They just don't. When opposing teams are held to less than 14 points, with the right mix of some bounces, field possession, and turnovers this team could be in contention with me as a quarterback. We saw this week that Fitz is very capable of having an off day. We will be in every game regardless when this defense is firing on all cyclinders.

2. MOBILTY
Boykin right now is more mobile than Russell due to injuries. We could revert back to using the read option as a weapon that could prove to be advantageous. I think this is especially important this week as the Jets do have an impressive pass rush. Boykin actually might be better suited than Russell to evade the rush this week, let's use his speed and elusiveness.

3. TRADITIONAL CONSERVATIVE PLAYCALLING.
Our defense allows Pete to play TOP, run first football even when Russell plays. In other words, you don't really have to change the game plan much to accommodate Boykin.

4. MICHAEL SEEMS TO BE PEAKING
He is improving on a weekly basis and is gaining confidence. I would add the the run blocking was improved this week and the O-Line should only improve as the weeks progress and they start to gel with one another.

5. THE JETS AREN'T WORLDBEATERS
They lost at home to Cincy, they barely got by Buffalo (albeit on the road), and they were curb stomped by KC.

6. WE PLAY WELL IN NEW YORK
Our guys get amped to play in that stadium. We have taken care of the Giants the last few times we've played there (IIRC), and we had another impressive victory there a few years ago in February.

7. BOYKIN MIGHT NOT BE AWFUL
A few things. I know there is a lot of emphasis on this board that he is an UDFA, but I'm confident that was primarily due to his off field incident. I think he would have absolutely been selected in the draft if it were not for his bowl game fiasco (admittedly in the later rounds). We are seeing more and more these days, that rookie QB's can contribute and even succeed early on without sitting for an extended amount of time.

8. ANY GIVEN SUNDAY
Self Explantory. The Pats are a great football team, and they find ways to win regardless of who is behind center. We are a great team and we can as well.

In summary, I don't believe that we won't be competive against the Jets just because Russell Wilson sits. I've been very surprised by the "should we play Russell or acquiesce defeat so he can rest" tone of the board. Would I be expecting a win if Boykin plays? Not necessarily, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we found a way to win playing hard nosed Seahawk football. I think it will be a good game.

Wondering what everyone thinks going into Sundays game if Boykin is indeed starting. I know some will just say "Russell is playing, dumb, irrelevant thread", but in that case, hypothetically I'm still curious what you guys think about our capability to squeak out a win or two without Russell.

Because all UDFA QBs suck, cuz the draft position is everything! :sarcasm_off:

Check out this suckfest!











In all seriousness, I have complete confidence in Boykin's ability to eek out a win vs NY. I think t'd be good for his development, and I would rather not risk any further injury to Wilson. I don't think Wilson's injury will keep him out, but I sure wish they'd consider it just for many reasons I pointed out in another thread, no must win, non divisional or conference opponent, extra bye week, etc.

Points 1, 2, 3 especially agreed with but his mobility is actually a big deal. He proved it in the Dallas preseason game 3 when he made a fairly spectacular TD on a RO keeper to the left corner of the end zone, for (I forget how many) big yards.

The guy can ball, we have the NUMBER ONE DEFENSE, give Boykin a shot with RW taking just the first few snaps or something to maintain his already-incredible starting streak.

LeftHandSmoke":21yqb6rm said:

Points 1, 2, 3 especially agreed with but his mobility is actually a big deal. He proved it in the Dallas preseason game 3 when he made a fairly spectacular TD on a RO keeper to the left corner of the end zone, for (I forget how many) big yards.

The guy can ball, we have the NUMBER ONE DEFENSE, give Boykin a shot with RW taking just the first few snaps or something to maintain his already-incredible starting streak.

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^^ This all day....

He threw one interception and the Seahawks backup has to be perfect.Play the man and good things will happen.

My positive post of the year.

They gave him a one read offense yesterday. It's getting through all the reads that come with experience. That would be what he would need to do for success in the long haul.

calihawk":20hg7b57 said:

He threw one interception and the Seahawks backup has to be perfect.Play the man and good things will happen.

My positive post of the year.

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There are "mistakes" and then there are "mistakes."This is QB driven league for a reason, there were mistakes all over the field against the niners but we still dominated, when a QB makes a mistake it is a much bigger deal. There is also a reason that PC places such a high priority on winning the turnover margin. A rookie QB can kill you real quick, there aren't many Russell Wilsons.

The zone read, the splits of the WR's wide....opening the middle of the field for Graham, there are a lot of positives that we can find out about Boykin, but I don't think we will find out about it this week.....perhaps in mop up duty later this year or when we finish off Arizona on the road in a couple of weeks or host Buffalo on Monday night would be times to get his snaps....if Fitzpatrick throws a bunch of picks this Sunday, it won't matter who we play at QB....

LeftHandSmoke":3qodenfb said:

Points 1, 2, 3 especially agreed with but his mobility is actually a big deal. He proved it in the Dallas preseason game 3 when he made a fairly spectacular TD on a RO keeper to the left corner of the end zone, for (I forget how many) big yards.

The guy can ball, we have the NUMBER ONE DEFENSE, give Boykin a shot with RW taking just the first few snaps or something to maintain his already-incredible starting streak.

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Mobility? That would be a weakness. He is not only slower than TJack, but also slower then any LB on our team including KJ Wright. There are quite a few D linemen that can out run Boykin and that is pretty sad for a 6' mobile QB.

Seymour":3niqfhtk said:

LeftHandSmoke":3niqfhtk said:

Points 1, 2, 3 especially agreed with but his mobility is actually a big deal. He proved it in the Dallas preseason game 3 when he made a fairly spectacular TD on a RO keeper to the left corner of the end zone, for (I forget how many) big yards.

The guy can ball, we have the NUMBER ONE DEFENSE, give Boykin a shot with RW taking just the first few snaps or something to maintain his already-incredible starting streak.

Click to expand...

Mobility? That would be a weakness. He is not only slower than TJack, but also slower then any LB on our team including KJ Wright. There are quite a few D linemen that can out run Boykin and that is pretty sad for a 6' mobile QB.

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He was reasonably agile on that play, better than where RW is right now:
http://www.seahawks.com/video/2016/08/2 ... -touchdown

well, it's not that can't win, it's just chances would be drastically diminished. He isnt ready for the show, and we can't even protect him from himself. This is evident from the mind numbing mistakes.

Seymour":3ogdan4q said:

LeftHandSmoke":3ogdan4q said:

Points 1, 2, 3 especially agreed with but his mobility is actually a big deal. He proved it in the Dallas preseason game 3 when he made a fairly spectacular TD on a RO keeper to the left corner of the end zone, for (I forget how many) big yards.

The guy can ball, we have the NUMBER ONE DEFENSE, give Boykin a shot with RW taking just the first few snaps or something to maintain his already-incredible starting streak.

Click to expand...

Mobility? That would be a weakness. He is not only slower than TJack, but also slower then any LB on our team including KJ Wright. There are quite a few D linemen that can out run Boykin and that is pretty sad for a 6' mobile QB.

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Based on what, his 40 time?

Not sure that tells the whole story. The guy has looked plenty fast in real time action, and thats all that counts.

Seymour":1cuf9n0o said:

LeftHandSmoke":1cuf9n0o said:

Points 1, 2, 3 especially agreed with but his mobility is actually a big deal. He proved it in the Dallas preseason game 3 when he made a fairly spectacular TD on a RO keeper to the left corner of the end zone, for (I forget how many) big yards.

The guy can ball, we have the NUMBER ONE DEFENSE, give Boykin a shot with RW taking just the first few snaps or something to maintain his already-incredible starting streak.

Click to expand...

Mobility? That would be a weakness. He is not only slower than TJack, but also slower then any LB on our team including KJ Wright. There are quite a few D linemen that can out run Boykin and that is pretty sad for a 6' mobile QB.

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It is correct that Boykin is not particularly fast for a dual threat QB at a 4.77-40 combine. I don't know if that affects his mobility too much though, he is known for having quick feet and he has shown a propensity to get out of trouble so far. One of the biggest criticisms of him coming into the draft was his mechanics and poor tendencies. "Boykin also has an innate tendency to throw off of his back foot, especially when facing blitzing defenders. Despite having very active feet, he relies solely on his arm talent too much, leading to errant tosses like this:" This tendency can lead to inaccurate and thus, dangerous, throws. http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/6/28/120 ... or-the-nfl

Off topic: When you mentioned KJ being faster it made me curious about the 40 times for the linebackers. I knew Bobby was fast, and then KJ at 4.75, but I was shocked to see Mike Morgan at 4.46. Those are big guys too.

Of course he can win some games. BUT when you start talking playoffs the competition get HOT. It would not be impossible to win it all but unless he comes out like a man on fire I just don't see it happening. Yes the Ravens won it all with Flacco but he was on fire at that time. I mean how many games would we have lost if we only had a average QB instead of RW? Even with our defense.
It's not that I hope he isn't good. I would love it if he was good enough for a QB controversy but I would never put money on it.

Year of The Hawk":38m846iq said:

Of course he can win some games. BUT when you start talking playoffs the competition get HOT. It would not be impossible to win it all but unless he comes out like a man on fire I just don't see it happening. Yes the Ravens won it all with Flacco but he was on fire at that time. I mean how many games would we have lost if we only had a average QB instead of RW? Even with our defense.
It's not that I hope he isn't good. I would love it if he was good enough for a QB controversy but I would never put money on it.

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Isn't this the argument to play Boykin for the Jets? sit Russ and play Boykin, go into the buy. that is 3 weeks of rest. I can see Boykin is still rough, but if he can keep from getting sacked and make the short throws we saw Russ make here and there, we should be ok vs the Jets. Let the defense carry this one. They have a pick now so the gates have been opened and the horses are off.

I would actually be fine either way, and Haven't seen enough of Boykin to either write him off or give him the backup job long term. I have seen enough to know he can evade defenders pretty well and keep fairly calm. Game 4 in preseason was both brutal to watch and a bit scary from a ball control perspective.

Can they win with Boykin? sure.

Do I want to see them try? No freaking way

With the Cards and Panthers sitting at 1-2, and a game at AZ after the bye I would be 100% fine with rolling Boykin out on Sunday and letting Russ heal up for a couple weeks. Going into the bye at 2-2 would be a win in my opinion at this point considering all the injuries.

Hawk_Nation":382lhqpf said:

With the Cards and Panthers sitting at 1-2, and a game at AZ after the bye I would be 100% fine with rolling Boykin out on Sunday and letting Russ heal up for a couple weeks. Going into the bye at 2-2 would be a win in my opinion at this point considering all the injuries.

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Fair point Hawk Nation, but this speaks to the exact point in my original post. I don't think we would be 2-2 going into the bye. I think we would be 3-1. I really think that if our defense plays well and Boykin limits mistakes, this team can be competitive with most teams and certainly capable of defeating the Jets. My point was that I don't think it's a for sure forfeiture like some have tacitly implied. Don't get me wrong, I know we are not legitimate long term playoff contenders without our MVP quarterback, this was specific to this week or maybe a few games scattered here and there when needed.

I agree with most of what you said in the OP, but having a rookie go into NY for a 10am game against a damn good dline with possibly a rookie RG sounds like a long day.

Stranger things have happened. All our worry would go out the window if we got even 3 picks off Fitz.

rjdriver":2iyjzy7q said:

Hawk_Nation":2iyjzy7q said:

With the Cards and Panthers sitting at 1-2, and a game at AZ after the bye I would be 100% fine with rolling Boykin out on Sunday and letting Russ heal up for a couple weeks. Going into the bye at 2-2 would be a win in my opinion at this point considering all the injuries.

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Fair point Hawk Nation, but this speaks to the exact point in my original post. I don't think we would be 2-2 going into the bye. I think we would be 3-1. I really think that if our defense plays well and Boykin limits mistakes, this team can be competitive with most teams and certainly capable of defeating the Jets. My point was that I don't think it's a for sure forfeiture like some have tacitly implied. Don't get me wrong, I know we are not legitimate long term playoff contenders without our MVP quarterback, this was specific to this week or maybe a few games scattered here and there when needed.

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We found out the hard way last year how important every single game is, particularly in the first half of the season where our schedule is the easiest. Remember -25 deg. in Minnesota?

This is a very winnable game if RW plays, if Boykin plays, it could easily be a loss with a good pass rushing team that can cause a rookie to make critical mistakes. Boykin is an "only-if-we-have-to" option.