RW injury - good long term?

mikeak

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Right at the end of 4th RW tries to do his thing for the first time and it back fires. Up until then he has been a pocket qb all game against the Jets and done a great job.

When you have the legs that he does then I think it is almost impossible to not use them. You can practice standing in the pocket, you can talk about it but as you get pressured you start using the legs to scramble.

ASSUMING full recovery from his legs injuries could this be a good thing? Today he stood there, threw into traffic (Richardson and Graham catches comes to mind) and had a fantastic day. Could this help him long term to continue his development?

Thoughts?
 

LeftHandSmoke

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He has been a terrific passer already from inside the pocket, starting long before getting injured.
 
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mikeak

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LeftHandSmoke":1sw8q7ql said:
He has been a terrific passer already from inside the pocket, starting long before getting injured.

I don't disagree with that but I certainly don't believe that he stands in the pocket and moves around in the pocket at an elite level.

I didn't say he would pass better from the pocket. I said I think he can become a better pocket passer in that he doesn't abandon the pocket as quickly and uses his legs to move within it. Like today
 

LeftHandSmoke

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I do see the argument that if he is unable to run then he's less likely to, and so maybe gets forced into playing the better part of his game.

But I still prefer full-spectrum Wilson.
 

MontanaHawk05

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I think the game has simply slowed down for him. He isn't leaving the pocket as eagerly as he used to (which comprised a HUGE number of his prior sacks), and he's got unconscious chemistry with Doug Baldwin, Tyler Lockett, and now Jimmy Graham.
 
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mikeak

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MontanaHawk05":31l5wcnm said:
I think the game has simply slowed down for him. He isn't leaving the pocket as eagerly as he used to (which comprised a HUGE number of his prior sacks), and he's got unconscious chemistry with Doug Baldwin, Tyler Lockett, and now Jimmy Graham.

Certainly a possibility. I just connect not leaving the pocket as quickly with his injuries. A belief that was enforced in my opinion by that late backwards scramble. It was like he tried to do something there.

Left hand - I totally agree that I rather have him 100%. I just hope when he gets to 100% he will be in a position to work the pocket better plus the mobility when needed. I don't think that scramble ability should ever go away but many of us has felt that at times he leaves the pocket before needed and I get that he has had a bad o-line but still...
 

LeftHandSmoke

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RW's ability to pass off scramble plays (yes, hopefully when it is the best decision) is one of the things that makes him so special. And his ability to run the RO keeper so well, when he decides to put the game on his shoulders late in critical games, is what makes him truly deadly.

He can handle pocket-only passing, but: Full-spectrum Russell is Radical.
 

Mojambo

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That last sack had less to do with Russell trying to be his old self and more to do with him absolutely not wanting to stop the clock with an incompletion.
 

LeftHandSmoke

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Mojambo":24rtcwh0 said:
That last sack had less to do with Russell trying to be his old self and more to do with him absolutely not wanting to stop the clock with an incompletion.
Agreed. Even if we'd missed the long FG and given them the ball there, the odds were very long against the Jets given the score and, as you point out, the ticking clock.

Importantly, he also went down safely.
 

Seanhawk

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Mojambo":2y7drc6x said:
That last sack had less to do with Russell trying to be his old self and more to do with him absolutely not wanting to stop the clock with an incompletion.

Completely disagree. Why didn't he just take a sack on that last drive instead of throwing it away then?
 

scutterhawk

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mikeak":2oensmnm said:
LeftHandSmoke":2oensmnm said:
He has been a terrific passer already from inside the pocket, starting long before getting injured.

I don't disagree with that but I certainly don't believe that he stands in the pocket and moves around in the pocket at an elite level.

I didn't say he would pass better from the pocket. I said I think he can become a better pocket passer in that he doesn't abandon the pocket as quickly and uses his legs to move within it. Like today

His ability to escape has won us a ton of games; It's pretty hard for him to stand there and let some 300+ lb. Walrus taking potshots at him, as that's part of the reason that he's gotten hammered twice in the last 4 games
Once he sees the O-Line picking up some of those blitzes a little better, I expect his confidence will come back....Ifedi might just be the catalyst that's been missing for awhile now.
The Jets got away with a bunch of Defensive PI's and holding today...I'm amazed that Wilson was able to get some of his passes off, while KNOWING that he was about to take a hit, even though he "Stayed In The Pocket"
 
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mikeak

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Not sure if I am unclear :)

I love what RW has brought to the table the past years, I think he is elite and I really like how he continues to look for targets while scrambling. I don't want any of that to go away.

With that said he has stood in the pocket still more in the last two games than I can recall throughout his career. He is forced to because of the injury but he has also been really great while doing so. I believe that this will carry over to the future and he will be a better more complete qb when he has finished recovering
 

LeftHandSmoke

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And once he is back to health, perhaps he should start electro-shock therapy to keep himself immobile? I bet he could find specialists to help with that too, somewhere.

;)
 

HawKnPeppa

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MontanaHawk05":37wzhydj said:
I think the game has simply slowed down for him. He isn't leaving the pocket as eagerly as he used to (which comprised a HUGE number of his prior sacks), and he's got unconscious chemistry with Doug Baldwin, Tyler Lockett, and now Jimmy Graham.
There goes the hyperbole again. The consistently stronger interior OL play this season gives him a pocket to step into.

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HawKnPeppa

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Mojambo":wvkl82mj said:
That last sack had less to do with Russell trying to be his old self and more to do with him absolutely not wanting to stop the clock with an incompletion.
Exactly.

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Smellyman

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LeftHandSmoke":2r6pcwff said:
RW's ability to pass off scramble plays (yes, hopefully when it is the best decision) is one of the things that makes him so special. And his ability to run the RO keeper so well, when he decides to put the game on his shoulders late in critical games, is what makes him truly deadly.

He can handle pocket-only passing, but: Full-spectrum Russell is Radical.

Yes to all of this.

he was already the best pocket passer in the league last season. Also the best playmaker outside the pocket in the league.
 

olyfan63

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mikeak, I was thinking the same thing you wrote in the thread title. Funny how the thread devolves into lotsa side arguments rather than discussing the point. Like someone (you?) said in a different topic thread that had some good discussion of this point.

I think it is an absolute BLESSING to Russell and the TEAM that Russell has had these mobility-impairing (but not career-threatening) injuries early this season. Russell has historically used his mobility as a CRUTCH at times, and it has been a crutch because he could always fall back on his Houdini act when things got sketchy back there.

Now, Russell has NO crutch, no Houdini act to fall back on, at least for the time being. We've seen the less-mobile Wilson in 3-1/2 games now. I really have to think that in the back of his mind, before, he always knew he could escape in times of dire need. Now, he can't rely on that, and has to stay 100% committed to getting the ball out on time because there is no mobility safety net. I think it's a really subtle, but extremely important point, psychologically, in Russell's development. Now he truly knows what it feels like to NOT have a choice, and to have to rely on pocket passing and getting the ball out on time. I also believe that when (we hope) he regains his full mobility, his brain and muscles will be fully wired up ("myelination" is one term sometimes used) with the program for 100% commitment to pocket passing on time, and he will be able to access and use that program whenever he chooses or needs to.

Then he can save his Houdini act for the moments in a game that truly require them, against elite defenses that are otherwise causing the 'Hawks offense fits.

Many unwanted experiences in life force us to develop skills and knowledge we never would have gained otherwise, and turn out to be a blessing down the road. Russell's injury is forcing him to truly RELY on his pocket passing skills. He will be a better QB in the short run and long run because of it.

Beyond just Russell, there is the effect on the entire offensive line, the running backs, TE's, and other players who are involved in pass protection, blitz pickup, etc. Now everyone else KNOWS they can't rely on Russell's Houdini act, and have to truly focus on, and fully commit to, the pass protection schemes, getting the reads right, improving their technique, improving their combination pass blocking with other teammates, etc. Of course Cable and Bevell know this too, and so they are approaching pass protection for Russell with that much more urgency and focus than ever before.
 

mrt144

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I think it might shorten the length of his career which is not good for the long term.
 
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