The rule about jumping over the center to block a field goal

GeekHawk · Oct 24, 2016

From the 2016 NFL rulebook.

Section 3 Unsportsmanlike conduct:

Article 1 PROHIBITED ACTS. There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct. This applies to any act which is contrary to the generally understood principles of sportsmanship. Such acts specifically include, among others:
<snip>

(p) Jumping or standing on a teammate or opponent to block or attempt to block an opponent’s kick.
(q) Placing a hand or hands on a teammate or opponent to gain additional height to block or attempt to block an opponent’s kick.
(r) Picking up a teammate to block or attempt to block an opponent’s kick.
(s) Running forward and leaping in an obvious attempt to block a field goal or Try Kick and landing on players, unless the leaping player was originally lined up on the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.

(source: http://operations.nfl.com/media/2224/20 ... lebook.pdf)

So, Arians is calling it a BS non-call, because he believes there was any contact no matter how slight with the center. And is having a tantrum in the press, which I see no so-called journalists are calling him out on. Even though the prohibition isn't on 'any contact', it's on jumping or standing on somebody, placing a hand on somebody to gain height (getting a boost) or landing on somebody during a jump.

Hopefully Arizona has an assistant who's job it is to provide crying towels to head coaches.

kidhawk · Oct 24, 2016

I have interpreted the rule as to making contact in such a way as to increase your ability to block the kick. Incidental contact wouldn't count under that, at least not how I have been interpreting it (and apparently the refs as well). The second attempt, the guard stuck his arm out and basically mid-air tripped him, which IMO should be just as legal. It's really not hard to stop a guy when he's jumping like that, you just have to be aware that it's happening. It's the element of surprise that allows that play to work.

johnnyfever · Oct 24, 2016

The best part was he did it TWICE! Totally got in Catanzaro's head, and sherm laying out forced him to pull the kick. That was a full kicking unit breakdown, especially the blocking.

GeekHawk · Oct 24, 2016

Exactly! The "on" in (p) and (q) applies to both jumping and stepping, as in "jumping on or stepping on a teammate or opponent to block or attempt to block an opponent’s kick." So, trying to boost yourself higher. Also can't land on the center, due to safety concerns. There was no part of what happened last night that should have ever been flagged (as far as the jump-block), yet Arians is all butt-hurt for not getting a call. To the point that he's loudly and publicly proclaiming it to be "bullshit". That's a quote.

Hawks46 · Oct 24, 2016

kidhawk":2y7ymgcw said:
I have interpreted the rule as to making contact in such a way as to increase your ability to block the kick. Incidental contact wouldn't count under that, at least not how I have been interpreting it (and apparently the refs as well). The second attempt, the guard stuck his arm out and basically mid-air tripped him, which IMO should be just as legal. It's really not hard to stop a guy when he's jumping like that, you just have to be aware that it's happening. It's the element of surprise that allows that play to work.

This is exactly how Mike Pereira explained it on Cowherd this morning.

Wagner didn't gain an advantage to his rush by barely scraping a toe on the back of the long snapper.

The 2nd time when he got caught up with the guy a bit, the long snapper initiated the contact, which is then legal.

kidhawk · Oct 24, 2016

Hawks46":dh8mkswz said:
kidhawk":dh8mkswz said:

I have interpreted the rule as to making contact in such a way as to increase your ability to block the kick. Incidental contact wouldn't count under that, at least not how I have been interpreting it (and apparently the refs as well). The second attempt, the guard stuck his arm out and basically mid-air tripped him, which IMO should be just as legal. It's really not hard to stop a guy when he's jumping like that, you just have to be aware that it's happening. It's the element of surprise that allows that play to work.

Click to expand...

This is exactly how Mike Pereira explained it on Cowherd this morning.

Wagner didn't gain an advantage to his rush by barely scraping a toe on the back of the long snapper.

The 2nd time when he got caught up with the guy a bit, the long snapper initiated the contact, which is then legal.

I'd have to watch it again, but I thought it was the guard who initiated the contact with Wagner on the 2nd jump

Hawks46 · Oct 24, 2016

kidhawk":2i7szsn1 said:
Hawks46":2i7szsn1 said:

kidhawk":2i7szsn1 said:

I have interpreted the rule as to making contact in such a way as to increase your ability to block the kick. Incidental contact wouldn't count under that, at least not how I have been interpreting it (and apparently the refs as well). The second attempt, the guard stuck his arm out and basically mid-air tripped him, which IMO should be just as legal. It's really not hard to stop a guy when he's jumping like that, you just have to be aware that it's happening. It's the element of surprise that allows that play to work.

Click to expand...

This is exactly how Mike Pereira explained it on Cowherd this morning.

Wagner didn't gain an advantage to his rush by barely scraping a toe on the back of the long snapper.

The 2nd time when he got caught up with the guy a bit, the long snapper initiated the contact, which is then legal.

Click to expand...

I'd have to watch it again, but I thought it was the guard who initiated the contact with Wagner on the 2nd jump

It's possible, as I didn't see it and only the replay, but it looked like he contacted the long snapper again, but if he did, it was because he was blocked into him by the Guard. Either way.

kidhawk · Oct 24, 2016

Hawks46":1oalbn9k said:
kidhawk":1oalbn9k said:

Hawks46":1oalbn9k said:

kidhawk":1oalbn9k said:

I have interpreted the rule as to making contact in such a way as to increase your ability to block the kick. Incidental contact wouldn't count under that, at least not how I have been interpreting it (and apparently the refs as well). The second attempt, the guard stuck his arm out and basically mid-air tripped him, which IMO should be just as legal. It's really not hard to stop a guy when he's jumping like that, you just have to be aware that it's happening. It's the element of surprise that allows that play to work.

Click to expand...

This is exactly how Mike Pereira explained it on Cowherd this morning.

Wagner didn't gain an advantage to his rush by barely scraping a toe on the back of the long snapper.

The 2nd time when he got caught up with the guy a bit, the long snapper initiated the contact, which is then legal.

Click to expand...

I'd have to watch it again, but I thought it was the guard who initiated the contact with Wagner on the 2nd jump

Click to expand...

It's possible, as I didn't see it and only the replay, but it looked like he contacted the long snapper again, but if he did, it was because he was blocked into him by the Guard. Either way.

He may have had incidental contact with the long snapper, but it looked to me like the guard caused it as he stuck his arm out and knocked Wagner off balance mid-jump. He saved the block there, although it turns out that pressure from Sherman contributed to a shanked kick anyway. Regardless, it's a heckuva play by Wagner and he definitely didn't use any illegal means to make the play.

Dirtball · Oct 24, 2016

If you go back to last weeks game where our kick was blocked, the defender used his own player to boost himself higher and get a hand on the ball. I said it then that THAT should have been a penalty, and they didn't call it.

Bigpumpkin · Oct 24, 2016

Dirtball":3bog3uvj said:
If you go back to last weeks game where our kick was blocked, the defender used his own player to boost himself higher and get a hand on the ball. I said it then that THAT should have been a penalty, and they didn't call it.

It is always about "Who do you choose to believe?"

I've had the opportunity to chat with a "college level" football referee. I was simply amazed at the arrogance displayed by this man. They see themselves as never wrong....period!

chet380 · Oct 24, 2016

GeekHawk said:
From the 2016 NFL rulebook.

Section 3 Unsportsmanlike conduct:

Article 1 PROHIBITED ACTS. There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct. This applies to any act which is contrary to the generally understood principles of sportsmanship. Such acts specifically include, among others:
<snip>

(s) Running forward and leaping in an obvious attempt to block a field goal or Try Kick and landing on players, unless the leaping player was originally lined up on the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.

It's interesting that Art. 1(s) refers to a "Try KIck" -- since a Try is the equivalent of a touchdown in the game of Rugby, it appears that this rule gives an indication of the evolution of the game of football.

JesterHawk · Oct 25, 2016

chet380":3tgfs69h said:
Rule 12, Section 3, Article 1, (r)

(A player commits an unsportsmanlike conduct by) Clearly running forward and leaping in an obvious attempt to block a field goal, or Try-kick after touchdown and landing on players, unless the leaping player was originally lined up within one yard of the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped.

Rule 9, Section 1, Article 3, (a)

When Team A presents a punt, field-goal, or Try Kick formation, a Team B player, who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage, must have his entire body outside the snapper’s shoulder pads at the snap.

Source: Reddit

The play where the flag was thrown was due to the officials thinking Wags lined up in front of the Center, not off to the side. Once they determined that he lined up correctly, there was no issue with the play.

gtcotcakya · Oct 25, 2016

Can someone explain on the second try, when the guard stuck his arm out and hit Wags in the shin/ankle, why is that not a tripping penalty? Just curious, since we wouldn't have accepted the penalty anyway.

PacHawk · Oct 25, 2016

I remember last year when Kam jumped over the center not once, but twice! Got flagged the second time, as he missed the block and ran into kicker. Does anyone remember that? Like deja vu all over again!

The rule about jumping over the center to block a field goal

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