A Perspective on Last Night from a Patsfan

:greetingsearthling: Hello fellow Seahawks fans! Hope you're enjoying that hell of a win!

It was a rough loss for the Patriots but it was enjoyable at the same time. That game is what football, in all aspects, should be. Hard hitting, back and forth, two top QB's (Top 2 imo, get out of here Rodgers), crucial defensive stops (I would say phenomenal defensive effort from Seahawks, I just have a question that I will pose below) with it all coming down to the last play. Forreal. It's ridiculous how both of these teams stay in the game for 60 minutes.

On the Patriots side, it was really REALLY annoying for multiple reasons:

- What the heck was that defensive game plan. A soft zone scheme with DB's way off the line. Given that we rarely play in that formation and that our communication was trash made it all that much worse. Seahawks were roughing up our receivers (As they should damnit, it's a football game) with Kam having literally one of the best hits ever. It wasn't a Pollard sell-out, questionable dirty hit. It was a statement. Gronk has a punctured lung btw, lol. ALSO WHY DID WE DO A TWO MAN RUSH. WHATTTTTT WASSSS THATTTTT. You validate that playcall by, you know, having the 9 DB's actually cover their man/zone lol. Patriots did not accomplish that.

- Offense was at times great, came up with some crucial 3rd down conversions (the other Bennett brother had a field day), but ultimately couldn't get it done when it most mattered (I don't know if it was Brady who made that call at the line or Daniels, but that was such a weak ending). That Blount TD though was one of the coolest touchdowns I've seen this season though haha.

On the Seahawks:

- People expected the team to limp into this game given the amount of time they've been playing as well as the short week while also taking a trip East. Obviously, they did not. Russel was able to make plays with movement this game, the O-Line held pretty well (Our pass-rush from the front 7 is awful so don't let that game be the best barometer for OLine success. Just a heads up!) and your receivers had a field day against our secondary. Again, I cannot stress how annoying our gameplan was. But it is imperative to tip a hat to how your offense took advantage, as it came through on the most crucial drives.

- Seahawks defense is where my biggest question is. They obviously made stops when it mattered most, created TO's, etc., but statistically, they were quite similar to the Patriots defense. Are you guys sold on the unit coming together or is there a bit of worry that there is too much yardage being given up? Over at Patsfans, it was a divisive debate because while we had a good PPG going into the game, we were very average, if not below, in yardage. It caused posters to debate with hubris that PPG is the only important stat while those who were scared argued that you afford too many opportunities giving up that yardage and someone is bound to take advantage of it. Is there a similar thought process here?

- Good gameplan, it was executed when it mattered most. Carroll made some questionable play calls, but when you win, it doesn't matter. There were maybe 2 or 3, but that's it haha.

At the end of the day, it was a good game! In a season of rather boring football, this was a sight. Great board you guys got going here, a lot of intellectual discourse on the intricacies of football and not playing into drama as other fanbases are prone to. Hopefully we meet again in the SB, because let's be real, only the Seahawks and Patriots make for the best games.

OhioPatsFan":3jxe70rk said:

:greetingsearthling: Hello fellow Seahawks fans! Hope you're enjoying that hell of a win!

It was a rough loss for the Patriots but it was enjoyable at the same time. That game is what football, in all aspects, should be. Hard hitting, back and forth, two top QB's (Top 2 imo, gtfo here Rodgers), crucial defensive stops (I would say phenomenal defensive effort from Seahawks, I just have a question that I will pose below) with it all coming down to the last play. Forreal. It's ridiculous how both of these teams stay in the game for 60 minutes.

On the Patriots side, it was really REALLY annoying for multiple reasons:

- What the heck was that defensive game plan. A soft zone scheme with DB's way off the line. Given that we rarely play in that formation and that our communication was trash made it all that much worse. Seahawks were roughing up our receivers (As they should damnit, it's a football game) with Kam having literally one of the best hits ever. It wasn't a Pollard sell-out, questionable dirty hit. It was a statement. Gronk has a punctured lung btw, lol. ALSO WHY DID WE DO A TWO MAN RUSH. WHATTTTTT WASSSS THATTTTT. You validate that playcall by, you know, having the 9 DB's actually cover their man/zone lol. Patriots did not accomplish that.

- Offense was at times great, came up with some crucial 3rd down conversions (the other Bennett brother had a field day), but ultimately couldn't get it done when it most mattered (I don't know if it was Brady who made that call at the line or Daniels, but that was such a weak ending). That Blount TD though was one of the coolest touchdowns I've seen this season though haha.

On the Seahawks:

- People expected the team to limp into this game given the amount of time they've been playing as well as the short week while also taking a trip East. Obviously, they did not. Russel was able to make plays with movement this game, the O-Line held pretty well (Our pass-rush from the front 7 is awful so don't let that game be the best barometer for OLine success. Just a heads up!) and your receivers had a field day against our secondary. Again, I cannot stress how annoying our gameplan was. But it is imperative to tip a hat to how your offense took advantage, as it came through on the most crucial drives.

- Seahawks defense is where my biggest question is. They obviously made stops when it mattered most, created TO's, etc., but statistically, they were quite similar to the Patriots defense. Are you guys sold on the unit coming together or is there a bit of worry that there is too much yardage being given up? Over at Patsfans, it was a divisive debate because while we had a good PPG going into the game, we were very average, if not below, in yardage. It caused posters to debate with hubris that PPG is the only important stat while those who were scared argued that you afford too many opportunities giving up that yardage and someone is bound to take advantage of it. Is there a similar thought process here?

- Good gameplan, it was executed when it mattered most. Carroll made some questionable play calls, but when you win, it doesn't matter. There were maybe 2 or 3, but that's it haha.

At the end of the day, it was a good game! In a season of rather boring football, this was a sight. Great board you guys got going here, a lot of intellectual discourse on the intricacies of football and not playing into drama as other fanbases are prone to. Hopefully we meet again in the SB, because let's be real, only the Seahawks and Patriots make for the best games.

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Thanks for the classy post, don't be a stranger. Intelligent football talk from opposing fans is always welcome. :2thumbs:

Appreciate your thoughts. Seahawks Defense is "bend but don't break". Against someone like Tom Brady who relies on timing & precision, plus has two beasts at TE (a position that has been known to do well against us at times), a decent amount of yardage is a safe bet for the opposition. Brady takes what he is given usually and will march down the field. We are still in adjustment as a defense due to replacing one of my favorite Hawks in Brandon Mebane with Jarran Reed, but he's starting to take steps in the right direction. Frank Clark is coming into his own now, so we'll see more progression from him and Kam Chancellor just got back on the field. If our defense can stay healthy along with getting Michael Bennett back, I think this defense will be even tougher down the stretch. We catch fire in the 2nd half of the regular season usually when guys get healthy and there is cohesion as a unit. Same can be said for our make-shift O-Line, which I am absolutely still worried about. Wilson is getting healthier, but still not 100% (I'd say around 90% if I had to guess).

Edit: Have to throw in that smaller, shiftier receivers tend to do better against us, so you have that on your side as well.

Anyway, I anticipate the Pats will be right in the thick of things come playoff time and your defensive performance was probably a blessing in disguise; A much needed wake-up call that doesn't hurt you much in the standings when you look at the big picture and the AFC as a whole. Was an exciting game and I hope we are able to meet again in the SB. Good luck to you guys the rest of the way and please, beat what NFC West teams you have left to face...or any other NFC teams.

The difference between the Hawks and the Pats is basically only about their relative Defenses.

It is a VERY BIG difference.

Defense for the last few games have allowed more than I think most are happy with. Buffalo were kind of going up and down the field against us.

Yesterday required Brady to drop in multiple long passes over Shead and I honestly think there are maybe 3-4 guys that can do that consistently (RW, Brady, Brees, Rodgers). So with everyone else back I am not worried about our defense getting beat by such passes again and I come away from that game way more confident than before the game...

But yeah give RW time to stand in the pocket and he is absolutely deadly. The other thing that I think is underrated is that because of his scrambling our WRs will never stop moving. NEVER. Not like other teams where you see them pull up quicker - our guys keep working it and so if RW has the time he will end the end find them like what happened a few times yesterday.

Thanks for the good post and thoughts

After reading this thread, and the view points from this pats fan, is it possible the patriots came in with a vanilla game plan thinking they could still win (which they almost did) and if not it wouldn't be a big deal with the quality of the other AFC contenders anyway? The obvious advantages of doing this if we meet again in the Super Bowl could be the difference in that game with how close these two teams play.
:snack:

OhioPatsFan":fi3s1h5y said:

Great board you guys got going here, a lot of intellectual discourse on the intricacies of football and not playing into drama as other fanbases are prone to.

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You obviously haven't been here after a loss or tie. We call it the Monday meltdown. :laugh:
:stirthepot:
Anyways, welcome and most of the time this board is sane and rational with great football discussion. Glad you checked in. :2thumbs:

In regards to offense, I think we did a ton of stuff that NE was not prepared for or able to adjust to, which is rare against the Patriots. I'm sure they were hoping Wilson was still hobbled but prepared in case he wasn't, however I just don't see how your team could have foreseen the production that CJ Prosise had.

On defense Kam coming back was huge and self explanatory. I know Pats fans are probably wringing their hands but I really don't think its necessary. Your team is fine. We didn't have a perfect game, it was more like a runaway truck and I do not think anyone could have beaten us last night.

The concern is normally not the small yardage plays that were given pretty much. The large concern as been stated in the past few years is the big play. We assume the big play is the one that gets them over 10 yards. 3 to 5 yards is not that bad until we meet up with you guys. You guys end up doing that to us a lot with your tightends. I feel that our middle linebacker core will end up getting better with the crossing patterns. As you saw if you watched the game with the NBC announcers, they pretty much said the same thing.

:greetingsearthling: and great first post. As Sports Hernia spoke, we appreciate great discourse with great fans. We learn a lot of how the other teams gameplan and what ins and outs they can expect as well as what we expect out of our group of players. The more the merrier.

I like this guy. Don't be a stranger.

With regard to the defense, I think a lot of us have been unpleasantly surprised at how well teams have run the ball on us with Bennett out. He's often viewed as being more critical as a pass rusher but his ability to get into the backfield when playing inside has been sorely missed.

Like you, I felt like it was a huge breath of fresh air as the game was physical, officiated well and the lead changes were plentiful. This time, it worked out for us but that game could have gone either way.

Maybe we'll see you guys again in February for the equalizer (as in, we win the SB this time).

Thanks for the cordial post!

The defense has always given up tons of yards but held teams down in scoring points.

I was very surprised about a few 3rd and longs, however. We need to consider a different coverage on 3rd and long.

Also, we allowed far too many red zone conversions. Sometimes you must tip your cap to the GOAT though.

I think your defense tried to take Graham out of the game, which did have a little success, but they forgot about Doug Baldwin and Tyler Lockett.

And by doing that, Wilson was able to work his magic.

My biggest question for the Pats would be about the offensive gameplan. You were Patrioting us to death for a while with the underneath rubs, Edelman isolation and Bennett over the middle, and just completely abandoned it.

As for your question, we aren't terribly worried about the yards. Our offense had been leaving the d on the field for 40 minutes a night, and they actually held up very well considering. Tyrod Taylor played his best game as a pro last week and earned every bit of it. Sometimes that just happens. He was ballin. We would like to stop the run better, especially off-tackle, but Bennett may be our most important piece of doing that. Also, our cover-3 doesn't surprise anyone anymore, so we are adjusting a bit. All-in-all, we gave up 24 to Brady, and we will take that every time. Our d battles and will stand up. We may not have those gawdy numbers of years past, but we are still at a level where teams have to execute exceedingly well to have success against us, and we have no problem leaning on them. Dak is gonna have to see us. We are excited.

Thanks for the warm welcome guys, much appreciated. I'm don't even post much on Patsfans but I'm definitely a professional lurker here and there. Been using this place to scout your guys' team for awhile.

GawksAtHawks":1vhc6awr said:

After reading this thread, and the view points from this pats fan, is it possible the patriots came in with a vanilla game plan thinking they could still win (which they almost did) and if not it wouldn't be a big deal with the quality of the other AFC contenders anyway? The obvious advantages of doing this if we meet again in the Super Bowl could be the difference in that game with how close these two teams play.
:snack:

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This is a theory proposed by posters at Patsfans as well. I see the logic and it could truly be that, I'm always a firm believer of not playing your whole hand. That being said, losing is never worth it given that the race for HFA is so crucial for the Patriots it seems. Going to Mile High sucks for us. We're terrible there. If we do lose HFA (Which I'm not saying will happen, it is possible for the Pats to win out given their remaining schedule), we might get lucky and go to Oakland's stadium which at least isn't scraping the stratosphere in terms of elevation. Then again their offense would have a field day if we play the way we did last night.

Laloosh":5n2qtrto said:

I like this guy. Don't be a stranger.

With regard to the defense, I think a lot of us have been unpleasantly surprised at how well teams have run the ball on us with Bennett out. He's often viewed as being more critical as a pass rusher but his ability to get into the backfield when playing inside has been sorely missed.

Like you, I felt like it was a huge breath of fresh air as the game was physical, officiated well and the lead changes were plentiful. This time, it worked out for us but that game could have gone either way.

Maybe we'll see you guys again in February for the equalizer (as in, we win the SB this time).

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The whole game I was just like "So happy Bennett is not rushing Brady". And the contract you guys have him on is infuriating lol. That being said, I cannot wait for Dion Lewis to come back, if he gets to regular form, that guy is arguably the most electric scatback. With James White and Lewis we'll double the production of Vereen (who was crucial in that SB) while having Blount smash it in at the goal line. Though Bennett might negate Blount's little-but-enough success running.

OhioPatsFan":143cbsbg said:

Laloosh":143cbsbg said:

I like this guy. Don't be a stranger.

With regard to the defense, I think a lot of us have been unpleasantly surprised at how well teams have run the ball on us with Bennett out. He's often viewed as being more critical as a pass rusher but his ability to get into the backfield when playing inside has been sorely missed.

Like you, I felt like it was a huge breath of fresh air as the game was physical, officiated well and the lead changes were plentiful. This time, it worked out for us but that game could have gone either way.

Maybe we'll see you guys again in February for the equalizer (as in, we win the SB this time).

Click to expand...

The whole game I was just like "So happy Bennett is not rushing Brady". And the contract you guys have him on is infuriating lol. That being said, I cannot wait for Dion Lewis to come back, if he gets to regular form, that guy is arguably the most electric scatback. With James White and Lewis we'll double the production of Vereen (who was crucial in that SB) while having Blount smash it in at the goal line. Though Bennett might negate Blount's little-but-enough success running.

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Bennett's absence, for me, is the primary reason Brady (and New Orleans and Buffalo before him) have found it so easy to complete 3rd and long on us all game. No interior pass rush = good QBs making hay.

I appreciate your point about your DL. Few around here ever check the quality of opponent before a game, so people rarely have a context for the performance of our players. In this case, yeah, we held up, but Belichick's gameplan seemed awfully...tentative. Like Darell Bevell's whenever he faces the Cardinals.

Anyway, cheers for coming by. If your least favorite team winds up in the Super Bowl, feel free to adopt the Seahawks for that February.

In a nutshell, the Seahawks d can't get off the field on 3rd down. Even 3rd down and extra long I'm not confident in this bunch, as we saw last night a few times

Steve2222":1srxneww said:

In a nutshell, the Seahawks d can't get off the field on 3rd down. Even 3rd down and extra long I'm not confident in this bunch, as we saw last night a few times

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Did ok on 4th down at the goal line. Ill take it

Nice post.

Seattles defense is as good as ever, however, the rest of the league has become very familiar with how to attack their defensive scheme. The newness has worn off, but the elite talent still makes it work. Over time, teams have had ample video references of what works against Seattle's defense. When opposing offenses deviate away from it, the chances of them losing goes way up.

The most potent kryptonite started with the Rams and their numerous different unheralded quarterbacks that have had sustained success against the Seahawks. Their coach, Fischer, successfully found an infallible way to convert third downs, using a relatively unknown running back named Bennie Cunningham. The play is called a delayed wheel route and it was a means for the Rams to complete the necessary two or three scoring drives required to win a defensive slugfest.

Bill Belichik obviously noticed this on film and used it extensively in the Super Bowl for a second half comeback. Go check out those stats again. The most impactful player in that game was Shane Vereen. Shane Vereen as a receiver in a delayed wheel route. It is how you beat Seattle. Honestly, that play gives Seattle fits. Delayed wheel routes to the running back. Not every down, just third down conversions. Keep the chains moving.

Want proof? Check out this link: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-super-bow ... highlights

So my question back to you is........the Patriots successfully used Blount as a ball carrier, but I don't recall them using White as a receiving back. Why not? Especially if Belichik has already discovered the secret formula to shred Seattle's defense.

As I recall, it was 3 plays that kept them (Pats) in.
1 the Brady rule penalty.. (Sherman?)
2 and 3.. 2, 3rd and long that Brady connected on. Had it not been for those plays, it was a different story, but like Gronk said, it is what it is... end of story.