Ted Ginn TD

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Seeing a lot of comments claiming that the ET injury allowed the long TD to Ginn on the very next play. Even Collinsworth (whom I LOVE-- the guy sees freaking everything in live action) sort of implied it during the broadcast. But having re-watched the play several times from the 2 endzone angles provided during the replays, I just don't think that's the case.

[youtube]M9FW7XCjKNs[/youtube]

First off, we are rushing 3 (inducing me to scream at the tv) with 4 across in front of the sticks (Shead, KJ, Lane, Sherman), 3 deep (Wagner in the middle, Terrell deep right and Kam deep left), and poor Ahtyba Rubin hopelessly dropping underneath medium crossing routes that don't exist. :lol:

Olsen starts off straight up the right hash, with Ginn to his right between the hash and numbers. Essentially they are straddling the seam between Wagner's and Chancellor's zones, so that Wagner is focused on Olsen and Kam on Ginn. Ideally, Bobby would get deeper and Kam would be able to carry Ginn thru with Bobby underneath as Olsen runs his deep out into Sherman's area. Instead, Kam is caught watching Olsen's route a smidge too long, and the speedy Ginn easily blows past both of them.

Although the throw ends up on the left hash, Terrell had been occupied by Brown's route up the left numbers and could not be expected to get back in time to make a play, especially on a receiver coming from the other side of the field. And this is why I think the play succeeds regardless of whether or not #29 is still in the game-- it just wasn't the deep right safety's responsibility.

As far as I can tell, it was a fantastic play call and perfect execution by the Panthers in that situation. It certainly seemed like they were expecting that look from us and knew they wanted to attack the Bobby-Kam seam with one of the fastest players in the league, and it worked beautifully. Another point-- that throw was UNREAL. 65 yards, all arm-- he doesn't even drive into the throw. I can see how that might have caught the safeties off-guard.

If you really wanted to assign blame, I guess I'd split it between Richard for rushing 3 (has that ever worked?) instead of 5, and then Kam/Wagner for letting Ginn blow by them. I definitely wouldn't fault Terrell, who was in for Thomas. But really, I think you just have to tip your cap to the Panthers, who took advantage of 3rd and long with a play call they liked against that Tampa 2 look, and they executed it well.
 

bigskydoc

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You really can't fault Terrell here. I mean, what safety can get off his guy and cover the amount of ground needed to make a play on the ball there?


Earl Thomas
 

McGruff

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That play is either on Wagner for not dropping deep enough, or its a great scheme attack by CAROLINA with perfect execution. Best way to beat a cover 2 is with three deep routes.
 

drcool

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Watching the replay Terrell was only 1 step away from making that play. He made up a ton of ground with the ball in the air. I am guessing he was where he was supposed to be and covering his part of the field. Maybe Earl Thomas recognizes the play a bit earlier and his instincts would make up for that other step, maybe not. But Terrell covered a ton of round to even get close to knocking the ball away.
 

London12

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I was shouting at my TV, it seemed obvious live that it wasn't a TD anyway..
 

getnasty

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Yeah I think Wagner needs to be deeper then the deepest but at the same time I'd be willing to bet Earl erases that play. His speed is what everyone talks about but his insticts are just as good. I'm not mad at Terrill it just goes to show how players like Earl can cover up area that other fall short in. Good football talk.
 

Smellyman

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Wagner definitely does not have responsibility for being the deepest.

There is no scheme in football on any team anywhere, where that is the case for an MLB.
 

Year of The Hawk

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How can the replay officials get it so wrong? They have access to more views than we do. He was not in. I don't understand not overturning the call on the field. What does what is called on the field have ANYTHING to do with what they see upstairs? Make the right call regardless of field call. Jeez.
 

McGruff

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Smellyman":2p12vrm7 said:
Wagner definitely does not have responsibility for being the deepest.

There is no scheme in football on any team anywhere, where that is the case for an MLB.

Yeah, I'm inclined to think it is a scheme issue. Three deep routes against a cover 2 is gonna force someone into single coverage. And Ted Ginn against Bobby Wagner is such an obvious mismatch that as soon as Kam favored the boundary receiver, hitting Ginn was a no brainer..
 

McGruff

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The more I watch, the more I blame Kam.

I actually looks more like cover 4 than cover 2. Sherman is playing an outside middle zone, which is right where Olsen breaks. Olsen doesn't run a deep route. He runs a middle out. But Kam bit on Olsen instead of trusting Sherman and that opened the deep middle.
 

Hawks46

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It has to be on Kam.

Like someone said, no scheme (that's viable) in the NFL has a MLB responsible for the deep middle 50 yards downfield.

Also, Terrell came screaming in from the right side of the defense as he was defending someone in his zone over on that side. Dude still managed to save a TD. By the way, did they even bother to review that ? Seems blatantly obvious.

I also blame Richard. Part of us giving up long 3rd downs is his penchant for rushing 3 in long situations. It's one thing to drop a lot of guys deep and make the tackle in front of the sticks, it's another to give the QB that much time to throw and be able to wait for something deep downfield to open up (it almost always does with no pressure).

Add in, Ahtyba Rubin being on the field on 3rd down and long. WTF, really ? Then, we drop him into a zone blitz and he's covering space where there is literally no one. If there were, it would be a RB out of the backfield, and it's not like a 300 lb DLman is going to get a RB with that much space underneath.

It's a terrible scheme. I'd really be curious as to how effective rushing 3 has been for us in long situations. Every time we get burned in 3rd in long, I'm noticing that we're rushing 3. It's like we're getting ready for Gus Bradley to come back or something.
 

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Mistashoesta":4z5vlb4x said:

Wow I didn't see that angle. The fact that they review all TDs and they still awarded it to them makes it even worse. The fact that Pete couldn't challenge it even if he wanted to makes me even more mad too. What a joke.
 

Sign37now

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Perhaps they didn't feel he had complete control of the ball until he was in the end zone??
 

kidhawk

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HawkFan72":31ms5eqg said:
Mistashoesta":31ms5eqg said:

Wow I didn't see that angle. The fact that they review all TDs and they still awarded it to them makes it even worse. The fact that Pete couldn't challenge it even if he wanted to makes me even more mad too. What a joke.

Not saying that it's not possible that he is down before the endzone, but this picture is not a player down, as he has yet to be touched. He definitely hit the turf before the ball crossed the plane, but there wasn't much distance to the plane from that shot and he hadn't been touched in this still, so IMO it's just not definitive enough to gripe about it.
 

bigtrain21

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kidhawk":2ivzibpi said:
HawkFan72":2ivzibpi said:
Mistashoesta":2ivzibpi said:

Wow I didn't see that angle. The fact that they review all TDs and they still awarded it to them makes it even worse. The fact that Pete couldn't challenge it even if he wanted to makes me even more mad too. What a joke.

Not saying that it's not possible that he is down before the endzone, but this picture is not a player down, as he has yet to be touched. He definitely hit the turf before the ball crossed the plane, but there wasn't much distance to the plane from that shot and he hadn't been touched in this still, so IMO it's just not definitive enough to gripe about it.

I'd say he is being touched with his right arm for sure. It is on his shoulder.
 

McGruff

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ivotuk":177677ss said:
Could be, I can't tell for sure.

This.

And the NFL doesn't have isn't still frames blown up to the point of pixelation.

Its a human game. Bang-bang plays happens and calls are made.

We've playing this game for over a hundred years and we still don't get it.
 
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