I think it's time to churn the team a bit. (My opinion 100%)

Maelstrom787

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This has been my opinion for a good while now - I think this organization needs to see a significant turnover this season.

Over the course of the season, we've seen the problems with this team become more pronounced and we've seen new ones pop up. I think the root cause of this has to do with stagnation. In an effort to keep the legendary team together as much as is possible, the team has run itself into a rut and the flaws with the team and coaching staff have become more obvious and worse with time.

This may be a byproduct of Pete Carroll's unfamiliarity with a long-term NFL job. This is not a knock on Carroll, who I believe to be one of the best coaches of all-time. His philosophy is detailed and comes from a wealth of personal discovery and charisma on his part, and it has worked for him thus far, from USC onward. However, perhaps his philosophy works better with constant turnover. This turnover was forced upon him in college - players would graduate and leave, and he would have no player for longer than 5 years. Coincidental as it may be, the team has been on the downtrend since Carroll's 5-year mark passed.

When Pete and John started with nothing, we saw continued improvement in the team as they were frantically turning the personnel over and over and over, finding the hungriest players wherever they could. They're clearly a talented pair when it comes to player evaluation and roster building. This is why I want to see the team partially deconstructed - Pete and John are apparently better builders than they are maintenance men.

I am of the opinion that our coordinators and some assistant coaches are toxic. The team is rebelling against them, rather openly, at times. Our coordinators show very little competency, at times. Cable has put together some truly awful lines despite significant draft capital being allocated towards his personnel group. I think that the turnover needs to start with Pete and John firing Darrell Bevell, Kris Richard, and Tom Cable, and conducting an extensive nationwide interview process to replace all three with coaches who can add new ideas to the conversation. The best place to look for some of these new guys, in my opinion, is the college ranks. Hiring some coaches fresh from college could significantly improve the perspective in the draft day war room. After that step, all positional coaches should be considered and replaced if deemed to be under-performing.

From there, I think the roster needs to be churned, significantly, in coordination with the new assistant coaches. I think some salary needs to be freed wherever this refreshed front office deems most appropriate. I think we'd be in a position to sign a decent amount of hungry, young free agents to fill a couple of depth spots, a position to wheel-and-deal for some undervalued guys around the league, and with the fresh perspective of (presumably) a couple coaches from the college ranks (be them positional or coordinator-level) a position to have a very good draft.

The team needs to be mixed up and refreshed. I simply believe that to be the scenario in which Pete's philosophy and coaching style work best. With a partial rebuild and a change of staff, I believe that would give this team the best chance of getting back to the Super Bowl in the next 3 years.

One window, in my opinion, is closing. I think Pete and John can damn well open another one soon, though. I just hope that Pete isn't too loyal to make it happen.


Again, all my opinion based on what I perceive of the state of the team and the compatibility of the state of the team with Pete Carroll's philosophy. I'm hoping for more philosophical conversation on the team.
 

nwHawk

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Much to our disappointment, this feels like a rebuilding year.
 

tmobilchawker79

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I couldn't agree more. Always compete needs to be part of the coaching staff too.

I think Richard is a big problem. Lane and Kearse dramatically underperforming their contacts.
 
OP
OP
Maelstrom787

Maelstrom787

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I'm glad to see some in agreement. Anyone else have thoughts on this? Counterpoints?
 

Siouxhawk

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You are usually a poster I enjoy reading, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
But I am one who believes continuity is of utmost importance and a good staff can figure out what the deficiencies are.
WIth all the turnover in coaching staffs around the league (I think we're up to 5 now and counting?), I think it's possible that your churning could happen by default and one of coordinators or head assistant coach gets a main gig.
But let's take care of business first and see how this plays out.
 

Foghawk

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I think it's been a long season for RW, lots of time spent rehabbing during the season. Youth and inexperience on the OL has been an obvious issue. Defense hasn't been the same since ET dropped out. RB position has been a carousel.

That said, here we go into the playoffs.

:229031_shrug:
 

chris98251

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Siouxhawk":2azfel3u said:
You are usually a poster I enjoy reading, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
But I am one who believes continuity is of utmost importance and a good staff can figure out what the deficiencies are.
WIth all the turnover in coaching staffs around the league (I think we're up to 5 now and counting?), I think it's possible that your churning could happen by default and one of coordinators or head assistant coach gets a main gig.
But let's take care of business first and see how this plays out.

But on our offense it has had continuity, Cable and Bevell have been here yet it's the most inconsistent unit, the O line is constantly being shuffled and they are not locking guys in to positions.

The so called beauty of the ZBS scheme is that you just need a RB to be able to make a read and cut and go, yet our running game has looked inept many times this year no matter who is running the ball.
 

edogg23

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Unless we win the Super Bowl fire Bevell, fire Cable, get Russell to work on his lost speed in the offseason.
 

KARAVARUS

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Whoa. I get where the OP is coming from, but we have elite, in their prime, future hall of fame talent right now. You cannot go into full rebuild right now. You would only be continuing the problem we have RIGHT NOW, which is how to best use said talent and get the most. So let's focus on the biggest offenders, and start there. To me, this is our offense. Who am I to say what the problem is? They need to dissect it, figure it out, and start their turnover there. I give Richard another year. We were, after ll, second in scoring defense this year, losing only to the patriots for our fifth consecutive, due to their weak ass schedule.
 

Siouxhawk

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chris98251":3qlsib59 said:
Siouxhawk":3qlsib59 said:
You are usually a poster I enjoy reading, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
But I am one who believes continuity is of utmost importance and a good staff can figure out what the deficiencies are.
WIth all the turnover in coaching staffs around the league (I think we're up to 5 now and counting?), I think it's possible that your churning could happen by default and one of coordinators or head assistant coach gets a main gig.
But let's take care of business first and see how this plays out.

But on our offense it has had continuity, Cable and Bevell have been here yet it's the most inconsistent unit, the O line is constantly being shuffled and they are not locking guys in to positions.

The so called beauty of the ZBS scheme is that you just need a RB to be able to make a read and cut and go, yet our running game has looked inept many times this year no matter who is running the ball.
I agree with you on not being fully on board with the ZBS with our current stable of backs, but we do have 10 wins for what, the fifth season in a row? And a win over Det./GB would put us in the divisional round for the ffith season in a row too. Perhaps by then our line finally gets it and clicks and we finish as strong as any team in the Pete Carroll era.
 

Siouxhawk

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edogg23":13ybylfn said:
Unless we win the Super Bowl fire Bevell, fire Cable, get Russell to work on his lost speed in the offseason.
Spoken (written) like a true Millenial.
 

chris98251

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Siouxhawk":zzcao92s said:
chris98251":zzcao92s said:
Siouxhawk":zzcao92s said:
You are usually a poster I enjoy reading, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
But I am one who believes continuity is of utmost importance and a good staff can figure out what the deficiencies are.
WIth all the turnover in coaching staffs around the league (I think we're up to 5 now and counting?), I think it's possible that your churning could happen by default and one of coordinators or head assistant coach gets a main gig.
But let's take care of business first and see how this plays out.

But on our offense it has had continuity, Cable and Bevell have been here yet it's the most inconsistent unit, the O line is constantly being shuffled and they are not locking guys in to positions.

The so called beauty of the ZBS scheme is that you just need a RB to be able to make a read and cut and go, yet our running game has looked inept many times this year no matter who is running the ball.
I agree with you on not being fully on board with the ZBS with our current stable of backs, but we do have 10 wins for what, the fifth season in a row? And a win over Det./GB would put us in the divisional round for the ffith season in a row too. Perhaps by then our line finally gets it and clicks and we finish as strong as any team in the Pete Carroll era.

The problem is we are talked up and have the horses for this.

Cool-Race-Car-Wallpaper-Desktop-.jpg


But were running like this, both move but well you see the difference in performance.

Lightning-McQueen-Powerwheel-race-car-modification-by-Evans-dad_1.jpg



or maybe this

Hqdefault
 

WindCityHawk

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I mostly agree, but rather than cleaning house, I think firing Bevell and Cable would send a message to the rest of the organization that, if you don't meet the organization's high expectations, you will be held accountable.

Not to invoke the specter of XLIX, but I think no one taking the fall for that loss really cast a shadow over this team. Maybe firing Bevell then would have been unfair, but it would have been a symbolic gesture that we do not tolerate losses like that in Seattle.

Instead, no one got hung, and it showed the team that the coaches are above the law. I think the players have made their feelings on the matter clear.

tl;dr: someone needs to get axed, even as a gesture.
 

HawkGA

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Siouxhawk":1gmnipr9 said:
You are usually a poster I enjoy reading, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
But I am one who believes continuity is of utmost importance and a good staff can figure out what the deficiencies are.
WIth all the turnover in coaching staffs around the league (I think we're up to 5 now and counting?), I think it's possible that your churning could happen by default and one of coordinators or head assistant coach gets a main gig.
But let's take care of business first and see how this plays out.

I think I could get behind your "Bevell is fine" schtick if you would at least acknowledge something isn't working. I don't think it would take much for the Fire Bevell people to become Fire Cable people. In fact, I think it is largely happening already. But clearly something isn't working on offense.
 

JSeahawks

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Lets wait and see how we do in the playoffs first. Personally i'm still optimistic and will be until we're done.
 

Siouxhawk

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I like the spirit of that little shaver in the 95 car. He looks focused, so don't sleep on him.
 

seahawkfreak

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nwHawk":j3tb1qnm said:
lots of youth

So get rid of people and get younger? We have had some good drafts and have found some real gems. We know who they all are. With that said, I think there are two players that I honestly believe changed the course of the Pete Carroll era and we do not have either of them right now.

One is Marshawn Lynch and the other is Earl Thomas. These are not the type players that we can find by doing a rebuild. Unless one wants to just let everyone go so we lose and get high draft picks, which would be idiotic. These two were the catalyst to set this team on fire with every other ingredient being the fuel and we were just plain lucky to get them.

Lucky for one that we were able to get both of them on the team at the same time. Lucky again because Lynch just happened to be on a team loaded with other talent at RB and the fact that he was causing the team issues with his public behavior. Score for us. Luck sprung again to get Thomas because he was there at 14 and we had the draft pick to get him. There were two outstanding safeties in the draft that year and neither turned into a bust (until they go to the Hall of Fame). Both turned out to be as good as advertised. What are the odds that we got one of them.

I don't have a solution unless we can find a generational running back and our future Hall of Fame FS stays healthy. An average Oline probably would help as well.
 
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