Revisiting the fail mary: TD or INT?

About a month ago, I was listening to Danny, Dave, and Moore, and the fail mary was brought up. Wyman talked about how it should've been ruled an interception, and how terrible of a call it was, yada yada. Ever since the day after that game, I've maintained my stance that it was called correctly. It has nothing to do with me being a Seahawks fan, but facts are facts. Tate had control with both feet on the ground first, while both of Jennings feet were still airborne. In fact, Tate caught it with his left hand first, before Jennings gets his hands around it. I don't care about the push off. To me, that's just irrelevant and a sore spot for people who believe it was in interception. Here's a good article on the breakdown of that play. I'm curious to some of your opinions on this controversial play.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/lifexinxre ... -crew/amp/

My feeling is that if no one can agree even years later then there's no right or wrong answer.

If it was ruled an interception we would have been weeping in our beers complaining about how we got jobbed but the reality is that its too close to tell. But since it was the other way around well then...too bad so sad!!

bored?

Vancanhawksfan":jzuo7jov said:

My feeling is that if no one can agree even years later then there's no right or wrong answer.

If it was ruled an interception we would have been weeping in our beers complaining about how we got jobbed but the reality is that its too close to tell. But since it was the other way around well then...too bad so sad!!

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No, replay clearly shows whose feet hit the ground first. That is reality. This is why facts matter.

Can't have possession with your feet in the air, and Tate's hand never left the ball. Simultaneous possession at worst, and even that's stretching it. And it's pretty evident that OPI is totally ignored after what Cobb did today, so they can't cry about that any more (but they will anyway, until the heat death of the universe).

Sure, the replacement refs got a lot other stuff wrong in that game, but that one they actually called correctly. It's too bad that trying to explain the facts to people (Seahawks haters) is like trying to explain to flat-earthers that the planet is round.

TD. Cut and dried by rule and interpretation. National media of course refused to show the angles and replays that provided clear evidence. It's all about the storyline and the agenda and keeping the drama and emotional engagement going. Inconvenient facts are irrelevant to them, and harm the ratings and viewership. Far better, for ongoing emotional engagement of NFL fans overall, to talk about how Green Bay got jobbed, how the "replacement refs" cost GB a game they should have won, etc.

253hawk":1034fewb said:

Sure, the replacement refs got a lot other stuff wrong in that game, but that one they actually called correctly. It's too bad that trying to explain the facts to people (Seahawks haters) is like trying to explain to flat-earthers that the planet is round.

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I think that's the biggest irony of it all. The replacement refs were terrible that game (and others), but it was a correct call that ended the lockout.

This is a topic that infuriates me the most, under the umbrella of media narratives.

As per the rules of the game it was a catch by Tate as he gained possession first. Jennings feet were still airborne, even Tate's backside hits before Jennings gets both feet down. Tate's hand never left the ball and the ball was pinned (against Jennings) but its still controlled.

Michaels saying "simulatenous possession, who has it?" complicated matters as well as comments like "Jennings looks like he has more of the ball than Tate". Idiots

But of course OPI should have been called, but hey it never is in those situations.

Followthelegion":ph6rk8xt said:

This is a topic that infuriates me the most, under the umbrella of media narratives.

As per the rules of the game it was a catch by Tate as he gained possession first. Jennings feet were still airborne, even Tate's backside hits before Jennings gets both feet down. Tate's hand never left the ball and the ball was pinned (against Jennings) but its still controlled.

Michaels saying "simulatenous possession, who has it?" complicated matters as well as comments like "Jennings looks like he has more of the ball than Tate". Idiots

But of course OPI should have been called, but hey it never is in those situations.

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100% correct on alll counts, the only call the replacement zebras missed was the OPI on Tate, which is never called in that situation (see today's play for exhibit A).

Who even cares? This discussion just makes our fanbase look stupid, IMO.

BTW, it's totally irrelevant that Tate's feet hit the ground first. If Jennings had possession in the air first, it would have been an interception. To quote a previous commenter on this topic:

I agree it was a catch, but it bothers me that people still keep saying things about feet touching the ground first. That part is irrelevant, nothing in the rule book about it. The only sequence that matters when looking at multiple potential catchers is who begins to control the ball first, assuming each catcher maintained control until the end of the play. If the defender begins that control first, then it is an interception. If it is the receiver or a tie, then it is a completion.

If Jennings' feet had touched the ground first, it still would have been a touchdown. If Tate had begun to control the ball after Jennings, then it would not have been a touchdown no matter how long Jennings hung in the air.

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Look through the NFL rulebook and casebook. I am not wrong.

olyfan63":2m25zl5y said:

TD. Cut and dried by rule and interpretation. National media of course refused to show the angles and replays that provided clear evidence. It's all about the storyline and the agenda and keeping the drama and emotional engagement going. Inconvenient facts are irrelevant to them, and harm the ratings and viewership. Far better, for ongoing emotional engagement of NFL fans overall, to talk about how Green Bay got jobbed, how the "replacement refs" cost GB a game they should have won, etc.

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It was a touchdown by NFL rules, and was confirmed as such by the league. It's a non-story. Media flailing about for some controversy is the only reason it's even a point of discussion.

It was called correctly. Tate had possession with both feet on the ground, his strong hands had allowed him to take the ball away from Jennings who had the ball while he was still in the air, that extra leverage caused by him being on the ground allowed Tate to ultimately keep the ball instead of it being a simultaneous catch.

Believe what you want, if you want to believe it wasn't a catch. You can be sure this story will be retold over and again if GB knocks off Dallas, and Seattle beats Atlanta.

The national media has their agenda, and it generally isn't favourable to the Seahawks.

Detroit will whine now until the end of time about Richardson's grab, while media will conveniently ignore that he was being mugged by the Detroit DB, and made a phenomenal catch while one arm was being held. Collinsworth is one of the many anti- Seattle voices that need to be ignored.

You need to accept the past and come to the present.

Could argue about it over and over again.

What's clear to me though is that Green Bay was getting away with holding all during the 2nd half and their only touchdown happened because of an indisputable bad DPI call. If that game is called fairly to begin with, Green Bay never has a lead and Seattle wins 7-6. The fail mary is completely irrelevant.

Good luck ever getting Pack fans to admit all the ref help they had in that game though.

Referees made horrible calls in favor of Green Bay that got them a TD. Don't hear anyone talking about that one.

Wyman is a bonehead that has taken too many hits.

thebanjodude":13hob2b2 said:

it's totally irrelevant that Tate's feet hit the ground first...Look through the NFL rulebook and casebook. I am not wrong.

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Correct.

253hawk":28nw2zw4 said:

Can't have possession with your feet in the air, and Tate's hand never left the ball. Simultaneous possession at worst, and even that's stretching it. And it's pretty evident that OPI is totally ignored after what Cobb did today, so they can't cry about that any more (but they will anyway, until the heat death of the universe).

Sure, the replacement refs got a lot other stuff wrong in that game, but that one they actually called correctly. It's too bad that trying to explain the facts to people (Seahawks haters) is like trying to explain to flat-earthers that the planet is round.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

Very interesting that Cobb had a BLATANT push off on the Hail Mary at the end of the half vs. the Giants.
Not one word from the announcers or media.
Tate did the exact same thing, and everyone lost their minds.
Typical

If you watch the super slow-mo, zoomed in version...you can see that the ball hits Tate's left hand first and doesn't move. He catches it one-handed. The ball never moves. The db wraps his hands around the ball and Tate's left hand and they go to the ground, with Tate's two feet hitting the ground first.

[youtube]WDnSdkefYAA[/youtube]

When they come out of the pile, the ball is still in Tate's left hand.

It was a catch, and called absolutely correctly.

I still refer people to this whenever this debate is brought up: http://www.footballnation.com/conte...aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

Vancanhawksfan":3ebxubdk said:

My feeling is that if no one can agree even years later then there's no right or wrong answer.

If it was ruled an interception we would have been weeping in our beers complaining about how we got jobbed but the reality is that its too close to tell. But since it was the other way around well then...too bad so sad!!

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Item #5 --> "Simultaneous possession" goes to the Offense.....For those who don't like it, they need to lobby their grievance's to the RULES committee.....Problem with doing that, is that, some day down the road, it could very well come back to bite them in the ass.
IF it were the other way around, and Rodgers had made that pass to his boy Jhordy Nelson, and gotten called an interception, the same sniveling fans would have gone ballistic.
You don't alter the rules of a game or play for fan favorites.

Vpk0718":1waiqtsu said:

Could argue about it over and over again.

What's clear to me though is that Green Bay was getting away with holding all during the 2nd half and their only touchdown happened because of an indisputable bad DPI call. If that game is called fairly to begin with, Green Bay never has a lead and Seattle wins 7-6. The fail mary is completely irrelevant.

Good luck ever getting Pack fans to admit all the ref help they had in that game though.

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Exactly
This is what people just don't understand. The game isn't won or lost on last play of game