We need an O-line and run game, but defense needs re-tooled

SeAhAwKeR4life · Jan 15, 2017

Don't get me wrong, love Sherm, Earl, Bennett, but come on, the defense is getting old and it shows. Obviously we need to add defensive depth, but these aging stars are gonna be slowing down, suffering more and more injuries, and without adding some serious talent and depth on the D line, and more importantly in the secondary, I see us going back to, maybe a playoff team, maybe 8-8 finishes.

As much as we complain about offensive inconsistency and spark, other than the O-line, we have the pieces! Hell even our bargain basement linemen started to show some promise. Seriously I think just one good tackle, and even not really adding anything else significantly offensively and I think we still do better on offense next year over this year. I really think our offense is a lineman, or perhaps even just one more year of working together from being as formidable as we need.

Its all about the defense, that's what concerns me Except for our worst offensive days, our D of a few years back could have made it a 12-14 win season.

semiahmoo · Jan 15, 2017

SeAhAwKeR4life":1yk537t2 said:
Don't get me wrong, love Sherm, Earl, Bennett, but come on, the defense is getting old and it shows. Obviously we need to add defensive depth, but these aging stars are gonna be slowing down, suffering more and more injuries, and without adding some serious talent and depth on the D line, and more importantly in the secondary, I see us going back to, maybe a playoff team, maybe 8-8 finishes.

As much as we complain about offensive inconsistency and spark, other than the O-line, we have the pieces! Hell even our bargain basement linemen started to show some promise. Seriously I think just one good tackle, and even not really adding anything else significantly offensively and I think we still do better on offense next year over this year. I really think our offense is a lineman, or perhaps even just one more year of working together from being as formidable as we need.

Its all about the defense, that's what concerns me Except for our worst offensive days, our D of a few years back could have made it a 12-14 win season.

Totally agree. Great post.

Our D is relatively young in years - but old in miles played.

Sherman is a half step slower out there, and he didn't have a lot of speed to spare in the first place.

Plus, guys get paid, and motivation so often suffers. Human nature.

Hawks offense is middling at best, and the D no longer dominates like it once did.

Again, agree 100% with your observations.

fenderbender123 · Jan 15, 2017

Whatever was the reason for allowing receivers to run free in the middle of the field almost all game...I say we fix that. Pass rush was solid again, but that doesn't (and didn't) mean shit if we can't defend against a quick passing game.

Grahamhawker · Jan 15, 2017

Yes!

Posted this in a different thread- but you could make the argument that Clark and Rubin have been the only solid replacements since 2012. Not saying I expect 2013-level play every year, but at that replacement-rate, how can performance do anything but weaken annually? We have next to zero depth.

nwHawk · Jan 15, 2017

Rubin was on skates against Atlanta and whifed ala Lane a few times. I like Rubin as a backup, but we need a better starter moving forward.

West TX Hawk · Jan 15, 2017

Our depth on D has gradually declined since our title year. We're going to have to look to hitting better in the draft and maybe roll the dice in FA if any cap room frees up.

I don't think releasing Kam or KJ is necessary as some have suggested but I will hope Pete considers making a change at DC. Richard IMO wasn't ready for the job to begin with-he needed more experience and was in over his head. His berating of the D yesterday looked desperate and it seemed like the players were losing faith.

The whole poor planned concept of leaving all the underneath routes wide open was disastrous. The philosophy of just lining up our base 4-3 and expecting we'll just out-physical our opponents no longer works either. We need more variety and masking our looks because high quality QBs have torched us routinely the last 2 years.

Grahamhawker · Jan 15, 2017

nwHawk":348pb51f said:
Rubin was on skates against Atlanta and whifed ala Lane a few times. I like Rubin as a backup, but we need a better starter moving forward.

OK- then that makes it 1 solid starter-level player added to the defense since 2012.

hoxrox · Jan 15, 2017

We had no identity this year.

2013, we were a team that could run the ball, and we could stop the run. A winning formula.

Unless we get an identity back, I see us losing in the playoffs again next year.

johnnyfever · Jan 15, 2017

Issue is if you are going to get rid of these guys, the replacement has to either have a much higher verifiable ceiling (college tape) or have a year or 2 to develop.

sherm, Kam, Bennett etc might have lost a step, or maybe scheme has made them less effective, but they are still better than those available.

I don't think we need a "rebuilding", but more of a retooling. Utilize the talent in better ways. If you watch our pass rush, it has become much more straight ahead. This makes it easy for defenses to man to man our guys to give enough time to throw. If you watch how we have been beat by opposing teams lately, they are not attacking straight ahead.

Any way, I'm not a defensive coach, just notice what works and what doesn't in the games, and what other teams are successful with.

sutz · Jan 16, 2017

The defense died this year in Sep/Oct. Too many goal line stands and epic saves while the O was unable to even flip the field with a couple of first downs. We lost TOP in almost every game in the first half of the season, several by 10 minutes or more. Half of the games were played almost entirely backed up on our own side of the 50. Physically, I don't think they ever fully recovered. Mentally you could see towards the end of the season that they were frustrated with it. Blame it on the OL, the OC, Russ getting laid again, whatever. The D performed epically in the first half of the season. It's no wonder they weakened at the end.

We don't need wholesale changes on the D. We need depth. There is some youth coming up on the DL, our LBs are still strong, and the LoB is still good. Pete always drafts a DB or two. I expect more OL help this offseason. Throw in a draft pick of opportunity here or there, and we'll be good going forward.

Hawks46 · Jan 16, 2017

sutz":1py6tu0z said:
The defense died this year in Sep/Oct. Too many goal line stands and epic saves while the O was unable to even flip the field with a couple of first downs. We lost TOP in almost every game in the first half of the season, several by 10 minutes or more. Half of the games were played almost entirely backed up on our own side of the 50. Physically, I don't think they ever fully recovered. Mentally you could see towards the end of the season that they were frustrated with it. Blame it on the OL, the OC, Russ getting laid again, whatever. The D performed epically in the first half of the season. It's no wonder they weakened at the end.

We don't need wholesale changes on the D. We need depth. There is some youth coming up on the DL, our LBs are still strong, and the LoB is still good. Pete always drafts a DB or two. I expect more OL help this offseason. Throw in a draft pick of opportunity here or there, and we'll be good going forward.

This is it right here. The defense was just worn down. After all that time left on the field, we have to realize that it's still a grind, practice is still really tough, and games don't get any easier.

Sherman still had a good year, sure it wasn't all time epic like he's been putting up, but it was still very good.

Earl had a better year than last year. He just got hurt.

Kam came back and had a better year as well, although he's having a harder time staying on the field. I could get on board with drafting his replacement and having him back Kam up.

Just look at all the injuries: Earl, Kam, Bennett, etc. That's some real talent off the field. We don't need to retool, but finding a better CB to push Lane and/or Shead looks to be a priority. We also need interior pass rush badly. We can't keep relying on Clark to get it.

Boycie · Jan 16, 2017

SeAhAwKeR4life":64tj3qca said:
Don't get me wrong, love Sherm, Earl, Bennett, but come on, the defense is getting old and it shows. Obviously we need to add defensive depth, but these aging stars are gonna be slowing down, suffering more and more injuries, and without adding some serious talent and depth on the D line, and more importantly in the secondary, I see us going back to, maybe a playoff team, maybe 8-8 finishes.

As much as we complain about offensive inconsistency and spark, other than the O-line, we have the pieces! Hell even our bargain basement linemen started to show some promise. Seriously I think just one good tackle, and even not really adding anything else significantly offensively and I think we still do better on offense next year over this year. I really think our offense is a lineman, or perhaps even just one more year of working together from being as formidable as we need.

Its all about the defense, that's what concerns me Except for our worst offensive days, our D of a few years back could have made it a 12-14 win season.

I think that O-line is a big reason why our D is not like it used to be. We used to run the ball, and own the clock, and now that is not the case.

It seems to me, and maybe I am wrong, but the D is on the field a lot more than they used to be, and that is because we had to pay our guys, and the cap caused us to cheap out somewhere, and it was on the o-line.

I hate to say it, but we need to do what the Pats have done, and that is trade high end talent while they are at their peak, and re tool from that with picks, and cap space. The question is who do they trade?

Grahamhawker · Jan 16, 2017

Hawks46":2ml3uqct said:
sutz":2ml3uqct said:

The defense died this year in Sep/Oct. Too many goal line stands and epic saves while the O was unable to even flip the field with a couple of first downs. We lost TOP in almost every game in the first half of the season, several by 10 minutes or more. Half of the games were played almost entirely backed up on our own side of the 50. Physically, I don't think they ever fully recovered. Mentally you could see towards the end of the season that they were frustrated with it. Blame it on the OL, the OC, Russ getting laid again, whatever. The D performed epically in the first half of the season. It's no wonder they weakened at the end.

We don't need wholesale changes on the D. We need depth. There is some youth coming up on the DL, our LBs are still strong, and the LoB is still good. Pete always drafts a DB or two. I expect more OL help this offseason. Throw in a draft pick of opportunity here or there, and we'll be good going forward.

Click to expand...

This is it right here. The defense was just worn down. After all that time left on the field, we have to realize that it's still a grind, practice is still really tough, and games don't get any easier.

Sherman still had a good year, sure it wasn't all time epic like he's been putting up, but it was still very good.

Earl had a better year than last year. He just got hurt.

Kam came back and had a better year as well, although he's having a harder time staying on the field. I could get on board with drafting his replacement and having him back Kam up.

Just look at all the injuries: Earl, Kam, Bennett, etc. That's some real talent off the field. We don't need to retool, but finding a better CB to push Lane and/or Shead looks to be a priority. We also need interior pass rush badly. We can't keep relying on Clark to get it.

All true.

Don't forget Wagner was a DPOY candidate and KJ arguably had one of his best years.

The D performed at a high level- a really high level- as long as was reasonable for any D.

The obvious problem - lack of any quality depth. If Marsh is our best backup lineman, Coyle our best LB, Elliott our best CB, and Terrell our best safety... well, connect the dots.

Upgrade depth overall- especially at safety, look to replace Shead and Lane (they should be depth), find a pocket collapsing DT and this D is unstoppable.

We need an O-line and run game, but defense needs re-tooled

SeAhAwKeR4life

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semiahmoo

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fenderbender123

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Grahamhawker

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nwHawk

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West TX Hawk

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Grahamhawker

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hoxrox

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johnnyfever

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sutz

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Hawks46

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Boycie

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Grahamhawker

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