Garry Gilliam

oldhawkfan

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What's the deal with this guy? Going into last year he was viewed by many if not most as the best o-lineman on the team. He spent a couple of years at RT and was deemed to be capable of manning the LT position. Now it looks like he is the unquestioned whipiping boy of the line. Could last year just have been a bump in the road for him or has he regressed and is unable to regain form? Last year at this time, Britt was the whipping boy.
 

jammerhawk

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He failed to progress in his development, was injured, outplayed, and replaced until near the end of the season.

By the end of the year he was playing his previous position @RT after being demoted during the season, but not well, or with the expected physicality that was needed to run block at RT. It seemed as if he lost his desire to play balls out ball.

I frankly don't believe he's worth more than a basic RFA tender which would only give the team a RFR for him if some other team wanted him and then I'm not that sure why they would. However time will tel and perhaps he'll be back but he sure won't be given a 2nd rd. RFA tender.
 

A-Dog

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Gilliam was moved from RT to LT in the offseason, and the hope was that with his athletic talent and work ethic he would take over the position and be a bargain there for a couple of years.

A few things happened that derailed that plan:

1) Ifedi was moved RG, leaving an open competition at RT.
2) Webb, the front runner to take over at RT, fought injuries, was ineffective once he made it on the field, and was ultimately cut.
3) Sowell impressed coaches in practice (I'm guessing Cable liked his toughness/aggression/physicality), and in an effort to "get the five best bodies on the field," Sowell took over at LT and Gilliam was thrown in to the competition at RT (after spending the offseason preparing to play LT).
4) The entire line including Gilliam struggled (it should be noted that Gilliam was playing next to a rookie).
5) Sowell was injured and Fant took over at LT. Fant was inconsistent and had some major struggles, but impressed with his raw tools and his approach to learning.
6) Gilliam failed to show enough toughness/aggression/physicality (this is typically more important at RT than at LT, where "finesse" players are often successful due to their ability to pass block against speedy edge rushers), and he was benched in favor of Sowell.
7) After a short stint back in the lineup, Sowell proved to be less effective than Gilliam despite having the desired traits, and Gilliam was again put back in the starting lineup. According to Gilliam he made a change in his approach, and focused on being more tough/aggressive physical, which helped him get his starting position back.

I think Gilliam still has the potential to be a solid starter. The tools and the mentality are there. At the very least I think he can provide a lot of value as cheap backup swing tackle.

I think the organization believes in Fant's future at LT and I would be mildly surprised if they signed another LT to a long term deal. A one year "go for a ring" deal for a vet with proven experience in a zone blocking scheme is possible, but I'm not counting on it. Also, as we saw with Webb and Sowell, band-aid vets often do not pan out.

Barring a big signing, I'd like to see Gilliam thrown back in the competition at LT, along with Fant and Odihambo (who actually looked okay in his brief stint at the position). All three are hard workers with talent. If that competition results in a serviceable starter and a decent backup, that's a big win financially.

At right tackle, if they aren't planning on moving Ifedi outside (I doubt they are), I would love to see the Seahawks go after Ricky Wagner, the RT from Baltimore. Wagner is only 27, has the gritty attitude that Cable loves, and was an above-average starter in a Zone Blocking scheme. He would likely cost $7M+ apy but barring a major drop-off he would solidify the RT position for 5+ years.
 

Optimus25

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A-Dog":2skg9s4k said:
Gilliam was moved from RT to LT in the offseason, and the hope was that with his athletic talent and work ethic he would take over the position and be a bargain there for a couple of years.

A few things happened that derailed that plan:

1) Ifedi was moved RG, leaving an open competition at RT.
2) Webb, the front runner to take over at RT, fought injuries, was ineffective once he made it on the field, and was ultimately cut.
3) Sowell impressed coaches in practice (I'm guessing Cable liked his toughness/aggression/physicality), and in an effort to "get the five best bodies on the field," Sowell took over at LT and Gilliam was thrown in to the competition at RT (after spending the offseason preparing to play LT).
4) The entire line including Gilliam struggled (it should be noted that Gilliam was playing next to a rookie).
5) Sowell was injured and Fant took over at LT. Fant was inconsistent and had some major struggles, but impressed with his raw tools and his approach to learning.
6) Gilliam failed to show enough toughness/aggression/physicality (this is typically more important at RT than at LT, where "finesse" players are often successful due to their ability to pass block against speedy edge rushers), and he was benched in favor of Sowell.
7) After a short stint back in the lineup, Sowell proved to be less effective than Gilliam despite having the desired traits, and Gilliam was again put back in the starting lineup. According to Gilliam he made a change in his approach, and focused on being more tough/aggressive physical, which helped him get his starting position back.

I think Gilliam still has the potential to be a solid starter. The tools and the mentality are there. At the very least I think he can provide a lot of value as cheap backup swing tackle.

I think the organization believes in Fant's future at LT and I would be mildly surprised if they signed another LT to a long term deal. A one year "go for a ring" deal for a vet with proven experience in a zone blocking scheme is possible, but I'm not counting on it. Also, as we saw with Webb and Sowell, band-aid vets often do not pan out.

Barring a big signing, I'd like to see Gilliam thrown back in the competition at LT, along with Fant and Odihambo (who actually looked okay in his brief stint at the position). All three are hard workers with talent. If that competition results in a serviceable starter and a decent backup, that's a big win financially.

At right tackle, if they aren't planning on moving Ifedi outside (I doubt they are), I would love to see the Seahawks go after Ricky Wagner, the RT from Baltimore. Wagner is only 27, has the gritty attitude that Cable loves, and was an above-average starter in a Zone Blocking scheme. He would likely cost $7M+ apy but barring a major drop-off he would solidify the RT position for 5+ years.

Great post!
 

hawknation2017

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Gilliam needs to improve his footwork and overall technique. He was beaten to the outside over and over again because he often took a shallow drop step that exposed him to a quick rip or swim move. Before he gained all that weight, he could rely on his make-up speed to chase rushers around the bend. Now that he has put on a lot of weight to become more physical in the run game, he can't rely on his natural athleticism anymore and is forced to improve the crispness of his technique.

Ideally, the Seahawks would add a true OT prospect in this coming draft. Meaning, someone with the agility, height, length, and athleticism to play OT, as well as tens of thousands of snaps of experience practicing and playing at OT. That is arguably something they have not succeeded in doing since Carroll's first draft selection of Russell Okung in 2010, which has forced them to rely on undrafted conversion projects at both OT positions.
 

Largent80

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Dude is smart, and athletic, but has NOT put it all together on the field.

One would think he needs to shit or get off the pot this year.
 

hawknation2017

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Will the Seahawks tender Gilliam for approximately $1.8 million (actual tender amounts are set next month) or will they try to sign him for less?

Gilliam is clearly their 5th best linemen right now, but he is a below average starter in the NFL due to his inexperience and generally poor technique. Solidifying the interior of Glowinski-Britt-Ifedi was the best thing to happen to the offensive line last season. Getting a raw athlete like Fant some experience was also good. Beyond that, the depth is freaking scary.

Odhiambo, squat and unathletic, looked mediocre at LT, pretty bad at LG, and just abysmal at RG. How much can Odhiambo realistically improve in year two? And Hunt looked mostly physically overwhelmed at center. We might have the worst offensive line depth in the league, in addition to having the rawest offensive tackles with the worst technique.

Gilliam has enough experience, athleticism, and versatility (having played OT on both sides of the line, as well as guard) that I think it's important that he returns to the team next season, at least in a utility role. But hopefully he will face stiff competition for a starting job in training camp.
 

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hawknation2017":1og7vowh said:
Will the Seahawks tender Gilliam for approximately $1.8 million (actual tender amounts are set next month) or will they try to sign him for less?

Gilliam is clearly their 5th best linemen right now, but he is a below average starter in the NFL due to his inexperience and generally poor technique. Solidifying the interior of Glowinski-Britt-Ifedi was the best thing to happen to the offensive line last season. Getting a raw athlete like Fant some experience was also good. Beyond that, the depth is freaking scary.

Odhiambo, squat and unathletic, looked mediocre at LT, pretty bad at LG, and just abysmal at RG. How much can Odhiambo realistically improve in year two? And Hunt looked mostly physically overwhelmed at center. We might have the worst offensive line depth in the league, in addition to having the rawest offensive tackles with the worst technique.

Gilliam has enough experience, athleticism, and versatility (having played OT on both sides of the line, as well as guard) that I think it's important that he returns to the team next season, at least in a utility role. But hopefully he will face stiff competition for a starting job in training camp.

Good general observations. Before the draft, Odhiambo was listed at 6'4" and 315#, with pretty fair athleticism. The biggest knock on him was his injury history; the most games he played during a college season was 9. I'm not sure I see him as squat and unathletic.
I think he has a chance to develop into a solid starter (most likely at guard), if not decent depth.
 

hawknation2017

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Grahamhawker":hvclmduz said:
hawknation2017":hvclmduz said:
Will the Seahawks tender Gilliam for approximately $1.8 million (actual tender amounts are set next month) or will they try to sign him for less?

Gilliam is clearly their 5th best linemen right now, but he is a below average starter in the NFL due to his inexperience and generally poor technique. Solidifying the interior of Glowinski-Britt-Ifedi was the best thing to happen to the offensive line last season. Getting a raw athlete like Fant some experience was also good. Beyond that, the depth is freaking scary.

Odhiambo, squat and unathletic, looked mediocre at LT, pretty bad at LG, and just abysmal at RG. How much can Odhiambo realistically improve in year two? And Hunt looked mostly physically overwhelmed at center. We might have the worst offensive line depth in the league, in addition to having the rawest offensive tackles with the worst technique.

Gilliam has enough experience, athleticism, and versatility (having played OT on both sides of the line, as well as guard) that I think it's important that he returns to the team next season, at least in a utility role. But hopefully he will face stiff competition for a starting job in training camp.

Good general observations. Before the draft, Odhiambo was listed at 6'4" and 315#, with pretty fair athleticism. The biggest knock on him was his injury history. the most games he played during a college season was 9. I'm not sure I see him as squat and unathletic.
I think he has a chance to develop into a solid starter (most likely at guard), if not decent depth.

"Not as tall or long as NFL teams are looking for from NFL tackles."
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/ ... id=2555142

PRO DAY RESULTS
Vertical: 27 inches
Broad jump: 7 feet, 9 inches
Short shuttle: 4.64 seconds
3-cone: 8.02 seconds

Those are all bad numbers that demonstrate a lack of athleticism. That broad jump would put him in the Bottom 10% of NFL offensive linemen. Broad jump is one important measure of explosiveness.

Odhiambo was the first offensive lineman the Seahawks have drafted since 2012 who jumped less than 9 feet in the broad jump. Average explosiveness for an offensive lineman is over eight feet. 7 feet, 9 inches is a very bad indicator of explosiveness, IMO.

3-cone is a measure of agility. Odhiambo's >8s 3-cone would also put him in the Bottom 10% of NFL offensive linemen.

Of course, just because Odhiambo is a little squater and less athletic than most does not mean he can't be successful in the NFL. But his performance also left a lot to be desired, IMO. Hopefully he gets better or is better than my humble opinion.
 

Grahamhawker

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hawknation2017":133j6ck6 said:
Grahamhawker":133j6ck6 said:
hawknation2017":133j6ck6 said:
Will the Seahawks tender Gilliam for approximately $1.8 million (actual tender amounts are set next month) or will they try to sign him for less?

Gilliam is clearly their 5th best linemen right now, but he is a below average starter in the NFL due to his inexperience and generally poor technique. Solidifying the interior of Glowinski-Britt-Ifedi was the best thing to happen to the offensive line last season. Getting a raw athlete like Fant some experience was also good. Beyond that, the depth is freaking scary.

Odhiambo, squat and unathletic, looked mediocre at LT, pretty bad at LG, and just abysmal at RG. How much can Odhiambo realistically improve in year two? And Hunt looked mostly physically overwhelmed at center. We might have the worst offensive line depth in the league, in addition to having the rawest offensive tackles with the worst technique.

Gilliam has enough experience, athleticism, and versatility (having played OT on both sides of the line, as well as guard) that I think it's important that he returns to the team next season, at least in a utility role. But hopefully he will face stiff competition for a starting job in training camp.

Good general observations. Before the draft, Odhiambo was listed at 6'4" and 315#, with pretty fair athleticism. The biggest knock on him was his injury history. the most games he played during a college season was 9. I'm not sure I see him as squat and unathletic.
I think he has a chance to develop into a solid starter (most likely at guard), if not decent depth.

"Not as tall or long as NFL teams are looking for from NFL tackles."
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/ ... id=2555142

PRO DAY RESULTS
Vertical: 27 inches
Broad jump: 7 feet, 9 inches
Short shuttle: 4.64 seconds
3-cone: 8.02 seconds

Those are all bad numbers that demonstrate a lack of athleticism. That broad jump would put him in the Bottom 10% of NFL offensive linemen. Broad jump is one important measure of explosiveness.

Odhiambo was the first offensive lineman the Seahawks have drafted since 2012 who jumped less than 9 feet in the broad jump. Average explosiveness for an offensive lineman is over eight feet. 7 feet, 9 inches is a very bad indicator of explosiveness, IMO.

3-cone is a measure of agility. Odhiambo's >8s 3-cone would also put him in the Bottom 10% of NFL offensive linemen.

Of course, just because Odhiambo is a little squater and less athletic than most does not mean he can't be successful in the NFL. But his performance also left a lot to be desired, IMO. Hopefully he gets better or is better than my humble opinion.

Ok, unathletic...maybe (rumor was he was not 100% when tested) but squat...? My theory is he's just not tall enough for his weight. :lol:

And (getting back to Gilliam) Odhi at least played O-line in the NCAA. Gilliam has to be better than he showed last season. It will for sure be interesting to see what the FO extends to sign him.
 

hawknation2017

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Grahamhawker":3nx5sejl said:
Ok, unathletic...maybe (rumor was he was not 100% when tested) but squat...? My theory is he's just not tall enough for his weight. :lol:

And (getting back to Gilliam) Odhi at least played O-line in the NCAA. Gilliam has to be better than he showed last season. It will for sure be interesting to see what the FO extends to sign him.

I guess that's a nicer way to say it, LOL. :2thumbs:

I think they drafted Odhiambo as a replacement for Alvin Bailey, who played the utility role for three years. They have a similar body type. Like Odhiambo, Bailey is disproportionately thickset for an offensive tackle.

However, Bailey has longer arms and is a discernibly better athlete than Odhiambo. For example, 7.50 vs. 8.02 3-cone. Odhiambo had one of the worst SPARQ scores in last year's draft (bottom 6.8 percentile among NFL linemen).

I did see some good things in Odhiambo's college tape as a LT. That just has not translated to guard, yet. I don't think Bailey ever made a truly successful transition to guard, despite objectively superior measurables. He played just as poorly for Cleveland last season as he did for the Seahawks, especially when tried at guard and not solely as a backup LT.
 

A-Dog

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hawknation2017":3p01yncb said:
Grahamhawker":3p01yncb said:
hawknation2017":3p01yncb said:
Will the Seahawks tender Gilliam for approximately $1.8 million (actual tender amounts are set next month) or will they try to sign him for less?

Gilliam is clearly their 5th best linemen right now, but he is a below average starter in the NFL due to his inexperience and generally poor technique. Solidifying the interior of Glowinski-Britt-Ifedi was the best thing to happen to the offensive line last season. Getting a raw athlete like Fant some experience was also good. Beyond that, the depth is freaking scary.

Odhiambo, squat and unathletic, looked mediocre at LT, pretty bad at LG, and just abysmal at RG. How much can Odhiambo realistically improve in year two? And Hunt looked mostly physically overwhelmed at center. We might have the worst offensive line depth in the league, in addition to having the rawest offensive tackles with the worst technique.

Gilliam has enough experience, athleticism, and versatility (having played OT on both sides of the line, as well as guard) that I think it's important that he returns to the team next season, at least in a utility role. But hopefully he will face stiff competition for a starting job in training camp.

Good general observations. Before the draft, Odhiambo was listed at 6'4" and 315#, with pretty fair athleticism. The biggest knock on him was his injury history. the most games he played during a college season was 9. I'm not sure I see him as squat and unathletic.
I think he has a chance to develop into a solid starter (most likely at guard), if not decent depth.

"Not as tall or long as NFL teams are looking for from NFL tackles."
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/ ... id=2555142

PRO DAY RESULTS
Vertical: 27 inches
Broad jump: 7 feet, 9 inches
Short shuttle: 4.64 seconds
3-cone: 8.02 seconds

Those are all bad numbers that demonstrate a lack of athleticism. That broad jump would put him in the Bottom 10% of NFL offensive linemen. Broad jump is one important measure of explosiveness.

Odhiambo was the first offensive lineman the Seahawks have drafted since 2012 who jumped less than 9 feet in the broad jump. Average explosiveness for an offensive lineman is over eight feet. 7 feet, 9 inches is a very bad indicator of explosiveness, IMO.

3-cone is a measure of agility. Odhiambo's >8s 3-cone would also put him in the Bottom 10% of NFL offensive linemen.

Of course, just because Odhiambo is a little squater and less athletic than most does not mean he can't be successful in the NFL. But his performance also left a lot to be desired, IMO. Hopefully he gets better or is better than my humble opinion.
Odhiambo was not fully recovered from his injuries and certainly was not healthy enough to adequately train for the combine. I wouldn't put too much stock in the combine numbers.

I think he can compete at both LT and LG this offseason. I'm not at all sold on Glowinski - IMO he may have been the worst player on the line last season. However, for whatever reason Odhiambo struggled when he had to play on the right side.
 

hawknation2017

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A-Dog":3uilxzsz said:
I think he can compete at both LT and LG this offseason. I'm not at all sold on Glowinski - IMO he may have been the worst player on the line last season. However, for whatever reason Odhiambo struggled when he had to play on the right side.

Glowinski actually played pretty well in his first year as the starter at LG. He was our 2nd best performing lineman, behind Britt. It's pretty clear from the coaches' comments that they believe Glowinski played well. He had some really dominant plays in the run, which the coaches are excited about, and did a nice job in pass pro. He has been called our strongest lineman, and there is a pretty big difference in athletic ability and explosiveness between Glowinski and Odhiambo.
 
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