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Kapadia w/Brock March 6th "Seahawks have drafted 14 Olinemen

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  • "Seahawks have drafted 14 offensive linemen since Pete and John started, tied for the most with 1 other team. They have not given out a second contract to any of the linemen they have drafted."

    That's a glaring statement. They've had some bad luck, Okung was never hurt in college, Carpenter was very good in college, but couldn't keep his weight down and had subsequent injuries.

    Sweezy worked out, but everyone outside of the Seahawks was willing to overpay for our linemen, and the ones that we've signed off the scrap pile, have been just that, scrap.

    The biggest thing that has limited our ability to field a good to great offensive line has been the fact that we have paid our defense top dollar, money that they have earned, and deserve. But that leaves a team short somewhere.

    I don't "blame" Pete and John for the offensive line, because I like the wins that they have produced, but I would like to see some consistency in who they play up front.

    I'm hoping that Fant improves enough over the summer (apparently he's busting his tail along with Britt and Glow and Ifedi), that he can remain at Left Tackle. He has the athleticism to be dominant, just not the experience.

    But I want to see the same 5 guys up front that ended the season there!
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  • I want to see gilliam on backup duty, and if sowell is still around he shouldnt be. Interior is manageable, and fant could come along if given time I think. We need a solid LT as that is russ's blindside and we cannot have free runners blasting him in the back. Our best tackle after the competion should go at the LT spot. Russ can scramble if the RT drops his man as he can at least see them coming.
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  • ivotuk wrote:But I want to see the same 5 guys up front that ended the season there![/b]


    I'll never understand this when it would be so easy to upgrade.
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  • nash72 wrote:
    ivotuk wrote:But I want to see the same 5 guys up front that ended the season there![/b]


    I'll never understand this when it would be so easy to upgrade.



    If they are the best 5 then I am okay with it.
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  • Subzero717 wrote:
    nash72 wrote:
    ivotuk wrote:But I want to see the same 5 guys up front that ended the season there![/b]


    I'll never understand this when it would be so easy to upgrade.



    If they are the best 5 then I am okay with it.

    They are the worst 5 starters in the league but the best 5 we have. I'm not ok with it.
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  • speaks to the scouting and coaching at that position you have to think.
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  • I think it speaks more to thier philosophy. They could have re-signed Okung, giacomini, sweezy, and Carpenter and we likely, barring injury, would have had a decent to good O-line. Those are (or were when they hit FA) average to above average lineman. But if they were to hand out those contracts they would't be able to pay Baldwin, Graham, or their premier defensive players and instead of whining about our crappy o-line we'd be whining about our crappy defense or recievers.
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  • In their defense, the majority of the picks they've spent have been pretty late. Britt will get a second contract. Paying mediocre players is one of the worst things you can do, so I don't blame them for letting the guys walk, Okung being the exception. However, with Okung, the timing of his injury and choosing to represent himself kind of took the decision out of the Hawks hands.
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  • brimsalabim wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:
    nash72 wrote:
    ivotuk wrote:But I want to see the same 5 guys up front that ended the season there![/b]


    I'll never understand this when it would be so easy to upgrade.



    If they are the best 5 then I am okay with it.

    They are the worst 5 starters in the league but the best 5 we have. I'm not ok with it.


    To be fair, Britt played pretty well. So really only the worst 4. 8)
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  • Tical21 wrote:In their defense, the majority of the picks they've spent have been pretty late. Britt will get a second contract. Paying mediocre players is one of the worst things you can do, so I don't blame them for letting the guys walk, Okung being the exception. However, with Okung, the timing of his injury and choosing to represent himself kind of took the decision out of the Hawks hands.


    You don't need 1st rounders to be an average line. Also we have spent dearly on Lineman, just don't keep them for a second contract, Our bunch of street free agents that first year were better then last year showed, so throw the draft out the window, it helps but isn't the reason.
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  • Also to be fair Garrett Scott never got the chance to be developed. He could have been a bust, or he could have been a solid OT. His athletic potential was on par with Fant/Gilliam. But Scott was actually a collegiate O-Lineman with starting experience.

    Michael Bowie was solid his rookie season for a 7th rounder filling in for Giac in 2013. Had the chance to earn the starting role in 2014 via competition but came in horrible shape.

    3 guys were collegiate DTs, only Sweezy panned out. Who knows if Sokoli would have but the Seahawks allowed him to be poached. Other guy was Jared Smith.

    Moffitt could have been good as he displayed solid technique/mental aptitude but he lacked the passion to take the game seriously and had a really poor work ethic. Softest looking guard I've ever seen. Can't really fault the Seahawks for that, the tape and skill were decent enough but one of the hardest things to judge with a player is his heart. See Curry. Moffitt' s Legal troubles just shows how immature he was/is. Funny dude though.
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  • Maybe our problem is with the zbs?
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  • brimsalabim wrote:Maybe our problem is with the zbs?

    If I see another lowlight play where one of our guys is blocking air while a defender breaks in over an unprotected gap where another of our guys is already blocking a player, I'm going to puke. Too much of that last year.
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  • We've drafted about the same on offense and defense. Problem is, our defense has developed into Pro Bowl players. Our offense has developed into busts.
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  • I brought this up when free agency started as to why we needed to overspend if we had to to get guys like Lang, because our FO obviously has no idea what they're doing when it comes to drafting O-linemen.

    IMO there needs to be a philosophy shift to stop bargain bin shop for linemen and trusting Cable to turn basketball players into competent tackles in half a season.

    If that means less money elsewhere, so be it, Pete and John have had a very high success rate in drafting defensive players, so I'm just fine with not having 70% of our cap space on that side of the ball.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I brought this up when free agency started as to why we needed to overspend if we had to to get guys like Lang, because our FO obviously has no idea what they're doing when it comes to drafting O-linemen.

    IMO there needs to be a philosophy shift to stop bargain bin shop for linemen and trusting Cable to turn basketball players into competent tackles in half a season.

    If that means less money elsewhere, so be it, Pete and John have had a very high success rate in drafting defensive players, so I'm just fine with not having 70% of our cap space on that side of the ball.


    Dallas has proven that a stacked O-line can mask defensive deficiencies (at least enough to make the playoffs).

    The Seahawks have shown that a stacked defense can mask offensive deficiencies.

    When you can do both, you get a ring.

    I'm definitely for using draft/ cap capital to acquire good linemen. The problem is that this is a poor tackle draft and the one lineman I actually thought could have been an asset for us (Lang) went home. 90% of the FA market was trash (Joke-L def in that group). With our garbage track record with drafting linemen, I think the most obvious answer (to me, the prince of armchair QBs, a most meaningless title) is that we need to take some of the power away from Cable on picking linemen.

    Also, lets also remember that our DL choices didn't work out that well until Frank Clark.

    We need a good draft to get back to the promised land. Can't ride that 2012 draft forever.
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  • ivotuk wrote:Sweezy worked out, but everyone outside of the Seahawks was willing to overpay for our linemen, and the ones that we've signed off the scrap pile, have been just that, scrap.


    Just throwing this out there, but if we're never giving our average to above-average linemen second contracts and plenty of other teams do willingly, they're not necessarily being overpaid. They're being paid market value and the Seahawks have shown they aren't willing to pay or match market value with the exception of Okung last year (which doesn't matter because he still went to Denver).
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  • jdemps wrote:
    Dallas has proven that a stacked O-line can mask defensive deficiencies (at least enough to make the playoffs)..


    Dallas also used 4 of 5 high 1st round picks to assemble their line, so kinda hard to follow that blueprint without stinking for a decade or so.

    My point is 14 of 14 O-line draft picks since the PC/JS era began has resulted in zero 2nd contracts and very little development, so it's time to change our philosophy of saving on the line to spend elsewhere.

    Either spend more on the line, or figure out why you're terrible at drafting and developing............but you can't stink at both.
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  • Should just change the subject to "seahawks suck at identifying and developing OL talent". Not for trying, but obviously in the NFL trying isn't good enough.
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  • Assertions that the Seahawk offensive line was "the worse" in the league is an exaggeration. IMO

    The Browns, forty-niners and Rams all had offensive lines with poorer season performances ....... to name three.
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  • Jville wrote:Assertions that the Seahawk offensive line was "the worse" in the league is an exaggeration. IMO

    The Browns, forty-niners and Rams all had offensive lines with poorer season performances ....... to name three.


    Is this where we're at now, having the piece of mind that we weren't THE worst line, just bottom 5?

    It's not an exaggeration, the line was crap, the worst line in franchise history........if you don't believe me just ask Russell's 84 injuries last year.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Jville wrote:Assertions that the Seahawk offensive line was "the worse" in the league is an exaggeration. IMO

    The Browns, forty-niners and Rams all had offensive lines with poorer season performances ....... to name three.


    Is this where we're at now, having the piece of mind that we weren't THE worst line, just bottom 5?

    It's not an exaggeration, the line was crap, the worst line in franchise history........if you don't believe me just ask Russell's 84 injuries last year.


    Such a retort is an emotional exaggeration.
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  • Jville wrote:Assertions that the Seahawk offensive line was "the worse" in the league is an exaggeration. IMO

    The Browns, forty-niners and Rams all had offensive lines with poorer season performances ....... to name three.


    That's some amazing company to be in, Glad were in the thick of things there.
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  • Tical21 wrote:In their defense, the majority of the picks they've spent have been pretty late. Britt will get a second contract. Paying mediocre players is one of the worst things you can do, so I don't blame them for letting the guys walk, Okung being the exception. However, with Okung, the timing of his injury and choosing to represent himself kind of took the decision out of the Hawks hands.


    Not sure what you mean by pretty late, but 46% of the OL drafted were drafted in the 3rd round or higher.
    I must be forgetting someone because I only came up with 13 since 2010.

    6 OL - 1-3 rounds
    2 OL - 4th round
    5 OL - 6th and 7th rounds

    Really no excuse for them not to have better results.

    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    jdemps wrote:Dallas has proven that a stacked O-line can mask defensive deficiencies (at least enough to make the playoffs)..


    Dallas also used 4 of 5 high 1st round picks to assemble their line, so kinda hard to follow that blueprint without stinking for a decade or so.
    My point is 14 of 14 O-line draft picks since the PC/JS era began has resulted in zero 2nd contracts and very little development, so it's time to change our philosophy of saving on the line to spend elsewhere.
    Either spend more on the line, or figure out why you're terrible at drafting and developing............but you can't stink at both.


    Dallas' main starters from last year 3 - 1st rounders, 1- 4th rounder and 1 - UFA. Only one of their 1st rounders was a top 10 pick.

    Seahawks have had similar talent (based on draft position) but haven't been able to make it work to the level of the Cowboys.
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  • If anyone has a list of the 14 players that would be cool to lazy to do it myself. I wouldn't say we've done horrible in drafting we just don't value paying guys who become free agents. Would you trade Kam and Jimmy Graham for Okung and Sweezy? I wouldn't but those are the decisions your faced with and Seattle has made it clear time and time again they'll roll the dice with unproven OLmen. John Moffitt was the one pick that I truly hate today.
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  • 1st round - Okung, Carp, Ifedi
    2nd - Britt
    3rd - Moffitt, Odhiambo
    4th - Poole, Glo
    6th - Hunt, Scott, Sokoli
    7th - Sweezy, Bowie, Seymour

    *added Sokoli
    Last edited by LolaRox on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • LolaRox wrote:1st round - Okung, Carp, Ifedi
    2nd - Britt
    3rd - Moffitt, Odhiambo
    4th - Poole, Glo
    6th - Hunt, Scott
    7th - Sweezy, Bowie, Seymour

    again not sure of the 14th unless they're including Unger from 2009.


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  • Thanks Seafan, totally blanked on him.

    Another convert project who I believe is back to playing defense for someone else.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I brought this up when free agency started as to why we needed to overspend if we had to to get guys like Lang, because our FO obviously has no idea what they're doing when it comes to drafting O-linemen.

    IMO there needs to be a philosophy shift to stop bargain bin shop for linemen and trusting Cable to turn basketball players into competent tackles in half a season.

    If that means less money elsewhere, so be it, Pete and John have had a very high success rate in drafting defensive players, so I'm just fine with not having 70% of our cap space on that side of the ball.

    Spot on. Pete and coaches have made good pieces out of lower draft picks or UDFAs at many different positions. Pete's glaring flaw is treating Cable as if he can do the same with zero evidence.
    I trust Pete to replace CB2 or an LB if we let those walk. We have no answers post Okung or post Breno for that matter.

    Then again when they spend money they light 7 mil on fire for joeckel whom they could have had for pocket change or just not signed. So I give up.

    At the OL we are the pre org change Mariners. Default pessimism is the only realistic outlook.
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  • nash72 wrote:
    ivotuk wrote:But I want to see the same 5 guys up front that ended the season there![/b]


    I'll never understand this when it would be so easy to upgrade.


    A second year of play often serves as an upgrade.
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  • A second year of play has not served as an upgrade on the OL and most specifically at tackle.
    Remember when Garry Gilliam was assumed to be on such an upward trajectory that folks were penciling him in at LT? Good times.
    Fant is just as likely to go either way or not improve much. We have precisely one conversion project success story in sweezy who was t worth a second contract. And that was at guard.
    After one year of play Justin Britt was so improved at tackle they moved him inside to fail at guard.
    Who are the examples of cable draftees at tackle who have improved in a linear fashion?
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Re: Kapadia w/Brock March 6th
Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:28 pm
  • hawk45 wrote:A second year of play has not served as an upgrade on the OL and most specifically at tackle.
    Remember when Garry Gilliam was assumed to be on such an upward trajectory that folks were penciling him in at LT? Good times.
    Fant is just as likely to go either way or not improve much. We have precisely one conversion project success story in sweezy who was t worth a second contract. And that was at guard.
    After one year of play Justin Britt was so improved at tackle they moved him inside to fail at guard.
    Who are the examples of cable draftees at tackle who have improved in a linear fashion?


    In case you haven't noticed, Britt is now the best lineman we have, and one of the conference's better centers. He wouldn't have become that for us if we'd have jettisoned him when you wanted (which seems to be, "after his first year or bust").

    Sure, it took a third year for Britt. So what. We have a QB who can make up for the deficiencies of the OL and has done so magnificently even while gimpy. If there's any team in the NFL that can afford time for lineman growth, it's this one.

    Fant is a gamble, sure. In that situation, you judge him off potential. Does he have the tools? Has he shown enough flashy plays to merit development? Is he cheap in the meantime? The answer to all three questions is yes. Cable just has to get him consistently owning.

    I'm not as excited about Gilliam, but Michael Bennett is.

    You don't hand out permanent judgments to players for a bad rookie year. You just don't. You bring in competition to motivate them, and then leave them in the mix. That's exactly what Seattle has done.
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  • Jville wrote:Assertions that the Seahawk offensive line was "the worse" in the league is an exaggeration. IMO

    The Browns, forty-niners and Rams all had offensive lines with poorer season performances ....... to name three.


    What metric are you using to measure? Joe Thomas by himself is better than the line we started last year.
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