JS - "The best drafting GM in the past 20 years!"

I concur! 8)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fan ... 765ef3398a

When he knocks a draft out of the park without Scot McCloughan's insight, i'll jump on board. So far, he hasent even come close.

nash72":3eg5vvdr said:

When he knocks a draft out of the park without Scot McCloughan's insight, i'll jump on board. So far, he hasent even come close.

Click to expand...

Unfazed by data or detailed analysis, the quoted poster continues to push a wildly cynical narrative with only weak rhetoric to lean on in his 129th thread of the week.

Anyway, I don't buy the "Scot McCloughan built the team" crap. He's an amazing talent evaluator, but you seem to think Pete and John just took his big board and drafted who he said to draft.

It isn't a realistic view. It's overly simplistic and although it fits your little shtick, it simply doesn't hold up when you take more than 5 seconds to ponder it.

Good big picture perspective for us, especially for the people who are being hyper critical right now when none of us have any idea if these players are good or not, and won't for another 6 months to even years from now.

Just look around the league at what went down this weekend, from the idiot Bears giving up the farm for a QB who's only started 13 games in college, to the Bills who fired their GM and half their scouting department.

A tiny bait and switch of the headline. After reading the article JS has had two of the best VALUE drafts of the past 20 years. Which is nice a lot of 3rd-7th rounders have done incredible things with this team which makes his 2011 and 2012 drafts jump out. This team is really good at finding the hidden value in the draft but they tend to get too creative in the first and second round.

sdog1981":1q76fies said:

A tiny bait and switch of the headline. After reading the article JS has had two of the best VALUE drafts of the past 20 years. Which is nice a lot of 3rd-7th rounders have done incredible things with this team which makes his 2011 and 2012 drafts jump out. This team is really good at finding the hidden value in the draft but they tend to get too creative in the first and second round.

Click to expand...

Creativity is what separates the great teams from the average, and we're right at the top of the list for mining value.

The perennial mediocre and bad teams are the ones who just keep wasting value and draft leverage year after year mismanaging their pics, or even hamstringing themselves for years to come by mortgaging their picks for 1-2 players, most of which don't pan out.

John and Pete know that it's 50% player attributes, and then it's 50% development. So we don't HAVE to pick the "can't miss" draft pick with no flaws. We know we can bring in a guy who's 50-75% there, and then develop him into a first round type talent.

Maelstrom787":821f6mmh said:

nash72":821f6mmh said:

When he knocks a draft out of the park without Scot McCloughan's insight, i'll jump on board. So far, he hasent even come close.

Click to expand...

Unfazed by data or detailed analysis, the quoted poster continues to push a wildly cynical narrative with only weak rhetoric to lean on in his 129th thread of the week.

Anyway, I don't buy the "Scot McCloughan built the team" crap. He's an amazing talent evaluator, but you seem to think Pete and John just took his big board and drafted who he said to draft.

It isn't a realistic view. It's overly simplistic and although it fits your little shtick, it simply doesn't hold up when you take more than 5 seconds to ponder it.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I cant jump on your wagon that every pick and action our FO does is some form of genius. Lets take that 5 seconds and elaborate on the last 4 drafts. Very mediocre and vanilla with very few hits. Better drafts with McCloughan or without him? Coincidence? I think not. Like I said, JS has some work to do before he gets the credit some bestow upon him around here. Will this draft be the turning point? Guess we'll wait and see.

But you will remain on the wagon (with a shocking amount of redundancy) that every move they make is terrible...

not hypocritical at all....

nash72":y8xwpp64 said:

Sorry, I cant jump on your wagon that every pick and action our FO does is some form of genius. Lets take that 5 seconds and elaborate on the last 4 drafts. Very mediocre and vanilla with very few hits. Better drafts with McCloughan or without him? Coincidence? I think not. Like I said, JS has some work to do before he gets the credit some bestow upon him around here. Will this draft be the turning point? Guess we'll wait and see.

Click to expand...

2013 Draft for sure, that's an F- in my book.

But other than 2013, we've gotten some great talent of the past three drafts.

2014 - Richardson, Britt, Marsh, KPL
2015 - Clark, Lockett, Glowinski
2016 - Ifedi, Reed, Prosise (Vannett and Jefferson IMO are going to have big years)

I think we got spoiled with Pete and John's first couple of drafts, but the last 2-3 is average to above average for most teams competing for SB's, especially one's like this that have rosters very hard to crack. Starters, depth and in the case of guys like Lockett and Clark, elite talent.

And 2013 would have worked out better if Jordan Hill had stayed healthy. You can't figure that in.

Also, we drafted Spencer Ware from that class and he's a top contributor on the Chiefs' roster.

Sgt. Largent":3hgvx1r6 said:

I think we got spoiled with Pete and John's first couple of drafts, but the last 2-3 is average to above average for most teams competing for SB's, especially one's like this that have rosters very hard to crack. Starters, depth and in the case of guys like Lockett and Clark, elite talent.

Click to expand...

This is true and a very valid point but its what we have to go on for the last 4 drafts. I just think that some of the things JS does in the draft is very unconventional and doesnt make much sense. I know people will say that its a Seahawk thing but I dont buy into that. Passing over higher ranked talent for reaches on a constant basis is infuriating sometimes. Why not pick some of the higher graded players when your in the position to do so? We restocked our defensive backfield, but I think we could have done so with some better players. Oh well. Wait and see is all we can do.

Uncle Si":19df53ff said:

But you will remain on the wagon (with a shocking amount of redundancy) that every move they make is terrible...

not hypocritical at all....

Click to expand...

Not every one of them Si, but a good many. Cant help it. I feel they missed out on some better talent and missed on some serious needs.

nash72":1gxsyb2f said:

Uncle Si":1gxsyb2f said:

But you will remain on the wagon (with a shocking amount of redundancy) that every move they make is terrible...

not hypocritical at all....

Click to expand...

Not every one of them Si, but a good many. Cant help it. I feel they missed out on some better talent and missed on some serious needs.

Click to expand...

I wanted some guys they didn't draft (King specifically) But I'm also intrigued by what they got. Willing to let this play out atleast through September.

nash72":18aghgps said:

Sgt. Largent":18aghgps said:

I think we got spoiled with Pete and John's first couple of drafts, but the last 2-3 is average to above average for most teams competing for SB's, especially one's like this that have rosters very hard to crack. Starters, depth and in the case of guys like Lockett and Clark, elite talent.

Click to expand...

This is true and a very valid point but its what we have to go on for the last 4 drafts. I just think that some of the things JS does in the draft is very unconventional and doesnt make much sense. I know people will say that its a Seahawk thing but I dont buy into that. Passing over higher ranked talent for reaches on a constant basis is infuriating sometimes. Why not pick some of the higher graded players when your in the position to do so? We restocked our defensive backfield, but I think we could have done so with some better players. Oh well. Wait and see is all we can do.

Click to expand...

Did you see the post endzorn contributed today about this draft tool called Slaytics? Quite interesting. Uses the Sparq tool that we all know our FO has followed, but then it's combined with this freak quotient. The post link spells it out thoroughly. Most of our draft picks are in the upper tier of this formula.

nash72":h6vtfqoa said:

Sgt. Largent":h6vtfqoa said:

I think we got spoiled with Pete and John's first couple of drafts, but the last 2-3 is average to above average for most teams competing for SB's, especially one's like this that have rosters very hard to crack. Starters, depth and in the case of guys like Lockett and Clark, elite talent.

Click to expand...

This is true and a very valid point but its what we have to go on for the last 4 drafts. I just think that some of the things JS does in the draft is very unconventional and doesnt make much sense. I know people will say that its a Seahawk thing but I dont buy into that. Passing over higher ranked talent for reaches on a constant basis is infuriating sometimes. Why not pick some of the higher graded players when your in the position to do so? We restocked our defensive backfield, but I think we could have done so with some better players. Oh well. Wait and see is all we can do.

Click to expand...

We don't know if that "elite" talent is actually elite yet........and no one will know for years to come. Go look back over the first rounds of the past 5 drafts and tell me how that elite talent that all the "experts" told us was elite are rocking all those pro bowls now.

So don't buy into the hype of watching and listening to the panel on draft day showing all the highlight reels of guys who you never even heard of before Thursday thinking we're missing out.

Bottom line, our FO drafts and develops college players better than anyone else in the league. What their names are and who thinks they're amazing is irrelevant.

nash72":mk0qxmq9 said:

Uncle Si":mk0qxmq9 said:

But you will remain on the wagon (with a shocking amount of redundancy) that every move they make is terrible...

not hypocritical at all....

Click to expand...

Not every one of them Si, but a good many. Cant help it. I feel they missed out on some better talent and missed on some serious needs.

Click to expand...

If the Seahawks had the first pick in every round and or could choose when they got to pick in every round they would still miss out on players, the fact is there are 31 other teams trying to do the same thing we are doing. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET EVERY PLAYER YOU WANT IN A DRAFT!!!!

I think the thing many are failing to realize it that JS/PC build teams based on unique abilities that will fit with what we have or don't have and need not what a sports analyst or fan thinks. There is a thread on this forum viewtopic.php?f=2&t=136940 that everyone needs to read. Look at how the people we drafted scored and it will tell you alot about why we picked them. Hell, Carson who was taken in the 7th round scored 2nd amoung all RB's, Pocic score #1 against all centers, even our UDFA FB from BYU scored #2.

Just because a ESPN or NFL Network Analyst has someone as their "top rated player" at that position doesn't necessarily mean they really are. Mel Kiper " Jimmy Clausen is the most football ready QB in the draft" and we got an F for not taking him or Ponder, etc... Look where they are today and we won a SB. Just saying.

The data in the article linked is fascinating and validates what many of us here have talked about.

2010 - 2012 - PC/JS crushed it adding core guys at great value with a cumulative + 299.8 AV thanks to ET, Tate, and Kam in 2010, KJ, Sherman, and Smith in 2011, Wagner, Wilson, and Sweezy in 2012.

2013/2014 - OOF. 2013 was a complete abortion and 2014 was almost as bad albeit Britt saves it with a + 15.6 AV. The cumulative AV is - 28.8.

2015/2016 - Better but not near 2010-2012. 2015 class was + 6.4 AV and 2016 + 0.4. In fairness, the 2016 scores were impacted by guys like Jefferson, Vannett, and Odhiambo not really playing and with Procise being hurt.

There's no question it's harder to sustain given where you pick, roster needs, etc. but I do think it's positive that the last two drafts are at least in the black.

One of the key reasons the 2010-2012 drafts were so good is that at USC, Pete had had extensive experience recruiting, scouting and scheming against a lot of college players on the board. He had more in-depth knowledge of these guys than anyone, and knew where the hidden gems were. It is not a surprise that since then, we have failed to hit a lot of home runs -- especially in the later rounds.

Siouxhawk":1necyimj said:

And 2013 would have worked out better if Jordan Hill had stayed healthy. You can't figure that in.

Also, we drafted Spencer Ware from that class and he's a top contributor on the Chiefs' roster.

Click to expand...

Why is Spencer Ware on another teams roster? Why are a lot of Seattle's mid to lower round draft picks on other teams rosters? Because the Hawks cant stash all of the mid range talent they get with all of those mid round picks. What if they actually were able to identify top tier talent, draft it and nurture it to fruition? They wouldn't have a dearth of mid round picks (gained via giving up real opportunities to choose top tier talent) that get cut early in training camp because they don't have room for them. The Hawks could have 20+ picks in a year and the same thing would play out. At some point you have to say that yea, they got lots of picks in the middle rounds but did they really evaluate the talent available in the first couple of rounds? It's easy to take the middle ground all the time, if your really good at what your paid to do, throw the anchor out and prove it. Since Scott was asked to leave town the Hawks drafts have been nothing but average to below average. The "successful" draft picks since are average at best when you consider being injured and being a difference maker.

Like I have said in several other threads, Pete and John put their necks on the line with this draft. Bitch and whine about that statement all you want, but it is the truth. My opinion is they got to cute this draft, just like Pete and what's his name did in SB 49.

As a 47 YO life long Seahawk fan, put that in your "everyone gets a trophy / equal say at the table" response.