Draft Position Perspective

I saw this tweet from the NFL Network yesterday and I felt it perfectly illustrated most if not all of the arguments in a couple of popular threads on this board. The posters that are defining the team and their selections before even 1 day of camp.
According to many people here, the first 2 rounds define the success of a team.

These are the players that were on the field for the game winning play in the last Super Bowl.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/nflnetwork/status/859076892451885057[/tweet]

That speaks volumes
I'm really almost quite concerned who were gonna keep and do we have to cut Kearse , take the cap hit anyway just to open a spot for a well deserving player that sure as hell won't clear waivers no matter how we got them via draft or udfa.
Just look at all our udfa players.
I always find it curious how little college can translate to the nfl
Thx for the post

White Devil":nil1pgsf said:

I saw this tweet from the NFL Network yesterday and I felt it perfectly illustrated most if not all of the arguments in a couple of popular threads on this board. The posters that are defining the team and their selections before even 1 day of camp.
According to many people here, the first 2 rounds define the success of a team.

These are the players that were on the field for the game winning play in the last Super Bowl.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/nflnetwork/status/859076892451885057[/tweet]

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I would be curious to see the other Super Bowl with what positions they were taken when we were on offense just to gain a perspective.........................

Interesting that they don't include Brady in their graphic . . .

HawkGA":1ot06smw said:

Interesting that they don't include Brady in their graphic . . .

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True a 6th rounder, maybe he didn't give permission

That is great for New England

lets look at Broncos 2015

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

offense - 1st round -- 2, 3rd round - 6 and then one in 4th and 6th
defense - 1st round -4!!!, 2nd - 1, 5th - 2 and 6th 1 with 2 UDFA

So between starting offense and defense 6 first rounders, one more in second and another 6 in third round. So conclusion is starting team is built in the first three rounds

Now if someone did a historical look at the last 10 years and looked at starters and not just one snapshot picture in time of the one team that probably have been the best at finding talent outside the draft that would be a meaningful discussion.

mikeak":1agcwhnf said:

That is great for New England

lets look at Broncos 2015

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

offense - 1st round -- 2, 3rd round - 6 and then one in 4th and 6th
defense - 1st round -4!!!, 2nd - 1, 5th - 2 and 6th 1 with 2 UDFA

So between starting offense and defense 6 first rounders, one more in second and another 6 in third round. So conclusion is starting team is built in the first three rounds

Now if someone did a historical look at the last 10 years and looked at starters and not just one snapshot picture in time of the one team that probably have been the best at finding talent outside the draft that would be a meaningful discussion.

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Your conclusion to 13 of 22 players being in the first 3 rounds is that "starting team is built in the first 3 rounds?"

Doesn't seem to fit the percentages, really? Couldn't you say that 9 of 22 starters were from 4th- UDFA and say "starting team is built pretty equally across the draft?" or did I miss something.

I think it fair to say the evolving Patriot paradigm works.

It's a reminder that not so long ago ....... all those Seahawk free agents and later round picks persevered over an extensive 49er collection of former high round draft picks. Seattle has carried on. San Francisco collapsed and is now rebuilding.

Uncle Si":6obdvduj said:

mikeak":6obdvduj said:

That is great for New England

lets look at Broncos 2015

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

offense - 1st round -- 2, 3rd round - 6 and then one in 4th and 6th
defense - 1st round -4!!!, 2nd - 1, 5th - 2 and 6th 1 with 2 UDFA

So between starting offense and defense 6 first rounders, one more in second and another 6 in third round. So conclusion is starting team is built in the first three rounds

Now if someone did a historical look at the last 10 years and looked at starters and not just one snapshot picture in time of the one team that probably have been the best at finding talent outside the draft that would be a meaningful discussion.

Click to expand...

Your conclusion to 13 of 22 players being in the first 3 rounds is that "starting team is built in the first 3 rounds?"

Doesn't seem to fit the percentages, really? Couldn't you say that 9 of 22 starters were from 4th- UDFA and say "starting team is built pretty equally across the draft?" or did I miss something.

Click to expand...

I think what Mikeak was trying to get at is that taking a snapshot of a single team doesn't really give us any conclusion either way. If someone took the last 10 years or more into account and found out how many of each round started in the games that would be something that one could actually draw a conclusion from or at least form an educated opinion.

If you stuck with the same game as the twitter link and looked at Atlanta they had 4 1st rounders starting on offense alone (Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Jake Matthews, & Alex Mack). The rest of the offense consisting of 1 second rounder, 3 third rounders, 1 fourth rounder, and 2 UDFA's. So if you only looked at only Atlanta one could draw the conclusion that good starting units must consist mainly of 4th rounders or above hence the need to look at more units over multiple years to draw any real conclusions.

Uncle Si":1y5ibedt said:

mikeak":1y5ibedt said:

That is great for New England

lets look at Broncos 2015

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

offense - 1st round -- 2, 3rd round - 6 and then one in 4th and 6th
defense - 1st round -4!!!, 2nd - 1, 5th - 2 and 6th 1 with 2 UDFA

So between starting offense and defense 6 first rounders, one more in second and another 6 in third round. So conclusion is starting team is built in the first three rounds

Now if someone did a historical look at the last 10 years and looked at starters and not just one snapshot picture in time of the one team that probably have been the best at finding talent outside the draft that would be a meaningful discussion.

Click to expand...

Your conclusion to 13 of 22 players being in the first 3 rounds is that "starting team is built in the first 3 rounds?"

Doesn't seem to fit the percentages, really? Couldn't you say that 9 of 22 starters were from 4th- UDFA and say "starting team is built pretty equally across the draft?" or did I miss something.

Click to expand...

Yes 13 / 22 is greater than 50% and actually for some reason that site only lists 10 for offense and I didn't go find the 11th starter anywhere so 13 / 21 = 62%

and regardless it is a different picture than the OP one presents with 3 out of 11 so about 25% being in the first three rounds.

If one then spends more time on those starters it is QB, RB, WR, WR, LT, LG, RG, RT on offense in the first 3 rounds....

Exception is TE and Center and that is it - everyone else on Offense is 3rd round or better

So for the Offense the Denver team was completely built at the front end of the draft.

Regardless my real point was looking at one team picture at one given time does not prove anything about the importance of the draft

Understood.

Although the presentation does spotlight that there are other means of building a championship team besides relying heavily on top round picks. Pete Carroll certainly explained that to the 49er not so many years ago .... with Richard Sherman making the exclamation point!

I would guess that was probably the OP's point. .

Jville":3uozvgik said:

I get what your saying. Your saying it is the definition of cherry picking.

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FIFY :lol:

mikeak":1bs3m5mu said:

Jville":1bs3m5mu said:

I get what your saying. Your saying it is the definition of cherry picking.

Click to expand...

FIFY :lol:

Click to expand...

Understood.

Although the presentation does spotlight that there are other means of building a championship team besides relying heavily on top round picks. Pete Carroll certainly explained that to the 49er not so many years ago .... with Richard Sherman making the exclamation point!

I would guess that was probably the OP's point. .

Didn't Lions kept picking pretty high year after year and ended up with guys like Suh, Calvin Johnson, etc? They never really won anything.

There is a lot more to winning championships than just having bunch of first rounders. I could care less if Seahawks "win" the draft or not according to all the experts but I do care about winning games & championships.

OK the link below are interesting for this subject but does not breakdown between round 1-3 vs the rest of the team. Still some good and cool information

https://www.sportingcharts.com/articles ... draft.aspx

Both the average NFL team and the past 20 Super Bowl champions tend to select more defensive players in the first three rounds than from the offensive side of the ball. Interestingly, the percentage of defensive players selected is 52% of all players in both instances. The results diverge when evaluating round by round. Super Bowl champions will focus more on defense in the 1st round (60%) compared to the average NFL team (50%).

This one is interesting

http://www.nfl.com/superbowlchamps/quarterbacks

26 of 47 superbowl winning QBs were drafted first round.

Considering Young and Brady has 8 of those that number is even more impressive

Separately this was interesting and would support us drafting defensive players

http://www.nfl.com/superbowlchamps/quarterbacks

Of the last 10 teams to play in the Super Bowl — which includes two appearances each by the Patriots, Seattle Seahawks, and Denver Broncos — 62 percent of first-round picks in the four years leading up to their respective appearances were used on defensive players, compared to the league average of 52 percent.

SeahawksFanForever":2w0ssbxd said:

Didn't Lions kept picking pretty high year after year and ended up with guys like Suh, Calvin Johnson, etc? They never really won anything.

There is a lot more to winning championships than just having bunch of first rounders. I could care less if Seahawks "win" the draft or not according to all the experts but I do care about winning games & championships.

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While this is true picking one of THE worst three GMs in NFL history may have something to do with it. I mean Millen has article after article written about awful his picks were. There is one story out there that I couldn't find now comparing throwing darts on a board to doing better than Matt Millen did.

He kind of reminds me of myself when I gamble on NBA games..........over and over and over again.........

I don't know that there is any way to build without succeding via the draft, but agree with you 100% that doesn't require that the "experts" thought you won or that you did it in round 1 or 6 - just that you somehow need to come out with starters from the draft on a continuous basis.

Jville":26805bc1 said:

I think it fair to say the evolving Patriot paradigm works.

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Psh.

We all know the real reason the Patriots win.

SeahawksFanForever":u7to9kzf said:

Didn't Lions kept picking pretty high year after year and ended up with guys like Suh, Calvin Johnson, etc? They never really won anything.

There is a lot more to winning championships than just having bunch of first rounders. I could care less if Seahawks "win" the draft or not according to all the experts but I do care about winning games & championships.

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I hear you. It's a spin your wheels type trap. In today's NFL, it is a cap and entitlement hammer. The Lions ... the 49ers ...

Jville":1z8zjmn8 said:

mikeak":1z8zjmn8 said:

Jville":1z8zjmn8 said:

I get what your saying. Your saying it is the definition of cherry picking.

Click to expand...

FIFY :lol:

Click to expand...

Understood.

Although the presentation does spotlight that there are other means of building a championship team besides relying heavily on top round picks. Pete Carroll certainly explained that to the 49er not so many years ago .... with Richard Sherman making the exclamation point!

I would guess that was probably the OP's point. .

Click to expand...

OP has no point. And isn't cherry picking anything.

I thought it was an interesting snapshot regarding some heavy conversation here.

The Seahawks under Carroll are a developmental type of team. They draft specimens and try to turn them into the player they think would be best for the team. That's different than most teams in the league and is proven by how many players are continuously signed from their practice squad.

The Patriots are the same.

They coach. They teach. They develop.

Drafts for teams that can do this are totally different than other teams. That's why it's usually difficult to predict or mock what they do.

Personally, I'm enjoying the ride while it lasts. The organization is at a place that I hoped to see for most of my life.

Out of curiosity more than anything else, Those stats about first thru 3rd rounders, Did they play for their chosen team or were they traded like we just picked up a few high rounders from the past this off season? Just wondering.