Ongoing RB Preseason Thread

Week 1:

Rawls - Looked pretty good considering the blocking. Made the most out of what he had for the most part. Not a lot there, but he got the start. That's telling. Plus

Procise - Limited touches. Still looks like the pretty glider that you don't want to give a lane due to lethality (not a word, but whatever). Made it through healthy. Plus

Carson - The hype looks to be real. It almost seems like there could have been an extra DL there on both touchdowns and he'd still get in like a physically superior specimen. Burst is there too. Got through healthy. Plus

Lacy - Moved fairly decent given that he's still not 100%. I know from experience that an ankle robs of you of some power so the fact that he didn't look quite like the Lacy you'd expect...I guess we'll see. Week 1 may or may not be an indication, but Lacy's job isn't secure. Carson looks like the 250 pounder right now. Minus

Davis - Looked pretty good. Created for himself bigtime on one carry and almost did on multiple others. The mark of an NFL RB is that which can create where there is seemingly nothing. Sure, taking advantage of wide open holes and having your talent be in the open field is a certain kind of skill, but those opportunities are few and far between in the NFL unless you play for Dallas. Per Brock during the game, Pete said that Davis would have started for the Hawks last year if they had him. That's telling. Plus.

Collins - Juked an initial defender on one catch, but that was the extent of anything good. Got blasted pretty hard on that same catch. He is deemed "Happy Feet" according to a Kam interview last week talking about how he can juke you. Beyond that he's sort of physically outmatched in this year's competition and "doing everything right" won't necessarily save him this year, which he didn't really do week 1 of the PS. Minus.

Like Kasen Williams' big catch celebration for week 1....keep it rollin'...

OK well I guess I'm not imagining things despite .net spellcheck.

vin.couve12":vvie8edx said:

Collins - Juked an initial defender on one catch, but that was the extent of anything good. Got blasted pretty hard on that same catch. He is deemed "Happy Feet" according to a Kam interview last week talking about how he can juke you. Beyond that he's sort of physically outmatched in this year's competition and "doing everything right" won't necessarily save him this year, which he didn't really do week 1 of the PS. Minus.

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My worry with Collins isn't what he did with his opportunities, the worry is why did he get the opportunities he did, after Carson and even Davis?

Here is a breakdown of every goal line and short yardage run by RBs.

3-1-LAC 1 (11:55) 27-E.Lacy right tackle to LAC 2 for -1 yards (91-C.Reid, 90-R.Carrethers).
1-1-LAC 1 (11:44) 32-C.Carson up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
3-1-SEA 48 (4:10) 39-M.Davis up the middle to LAC 49 for 3 yards (41-R.Evans).
3-2-LAC 20 51) 36-A.Collins up the middle to LAC 19 for 1 yard (41-R.Evans).
1-3-LAC 3 (7:57) 36-A.Collins left end to LAC 3 for no gain (90-R.Carrethers, 58-N.Harris).
2-3-LAC 3 (7:11) 36-A.Collins up the middle to LAC 1 for 2 yards (58-N.Harris, 3-R.Jenkins).
3-1-LAC 1 (6:30) 36-A.Collins up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

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So in short yardage situations where the defense was expecting run, Alex Collins got the ball primarily, 4 out of the 7 opportunities. He didn't have a single negative play out of the 4, averaging a yard for the 4 attempts. Lacy, Carson and Davis had one short yardage attempt each and went for -1, 1, and 3 yards respectively.

So did anyone really shine or stink as a power runner? No.

AC caught both passes from Boykin, 17 yards, he missed the one Davis threw, which I missed seeing, so no comment, but 2 out of 3 targets for 17 yards isn't awful either.

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First and 2nd down runs, outside of the redzone, with plenty of clock, is where RBs are really evaluated, or really have a chance to impress. Plays where Run or Pass is an even bet. Let's look at those.

1-10-SEA 41 (6:50) 34-T.Rawls left end to SEA 43 for 2 yards (54-M.Ingram, 57-J.Brown).
1-10-LAC 32 (5:44) 34-T.Rawls right end to LAC 29 for 3 yards (99-J.Bosa).
1-8-LAC 8 (13:09) 27-E.Lacy right end to LAC 6 for 2 yards (58-N.Harris).
2-6-LAC 6 (12:31) 27-E.Lacy right end to LAC 1 for 5 yards (49-J.Onwualu, 71-D.Square).
1-10-SEA 27 (3:32) 27-E.Lacy right end to SEA 31 for 4 yards (99-J.Bosa, 92-B.Mebane).
2-5-LAC 9 (4:17) 32-C.Carson left tackle to LAC 10 for -1 yards (71-D.Square).
1-15-LAC 19 (4:57) 32-C.Carson right tackle to LAC 9 for 10 yards (58-N.Harris, 31-A.Phillips).
1-10-LAC 15 (1:16) 22-C.Prosise up the middle to LAC 12 for 3 yards (98-I.Rochell).
1-10-SEA 47 (13:54) 32-C.Carson left tackle to SEA 49 for 2 yards (56-K.Toomer).
2-8-SEA 49 (13:17) 32-C.Carson right end to LAC 47 for 4 yards (41-R.Evans, 98-I.Rochell).
2-7-SEA 30 (8:30) 32-C.Carson left end to SEA 32 for 2 yards (56-K.Toomer).
1-10-SEA 39 (5:32) 39-M.Davis right end to SEA 43 for 4 yards (53-J.Perry, 91-C.Reid).
2-6-SEA 43 (4:53) 39-M.Davis left end to SEA 48 for 5 yards (90-R.Carrethers, 49-J.Onwualu).
1-10-SEA 10 (12:01) 39-M.Davis right end to SEA 10 for no gain (98-I.Rochell, 96-K.Eulls).
1-10-SEA 18 (5:37) 39-M.Davis up the middle to SEA 18 for no gain (35-R.Reid).
2-10-SEA 18 (5:01) 39-M.Davis up the middle to SEA 28 for 10 yards (23-D.McCoil, 90-R.Carrethers).
1-10-SEA 28 (4:15) 39-M.Davis left tackle to SEA 37 for 9 yards (23-D.McCoil, 98-I.Rochell).
1-10-SEA 44 (2:56) 36-A.Collins left end to SEA 47 for 3 yards (58-N.Harris, 56-K.Toomer).
2-7-SEA 47 (2:13) 36-A.Collins left end to SEA 49 for 2 yards (3-R.Jenkins, 56-K.Toomer).

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Rawls got 2 such carries, for 5 yds. Lacy got 3 such carries for 11 yards. That was all, which is expected, probably the least two RBs they want to evaluate. From there, Carson got 5 such runs, for 17 yards, Davis got 6 such runs for 28 yards. Prosise only got 1 carry of any kind, a 1st and 10 carry from just inside the red zone that went for 3 yards.

Collin's 2 such carries came right before the two minute warning, when he went for 3 and 2 yards.
So Collins was hardly evaluated as an every down back at all, just in the passing game.

It would just seem strange the coaches have decided Collins has no chance to out perform Davis, Carson
or Prosise, so he won't be given the runs they get in preseason games?, and instead will test him as a power
back in case Lacy doesn't work out?

Odd since Collins was never a pure power back to start with and he had lost 7 pounds in offseason and increased his speed. Maybe it's a motivational tool? I wouldn't rule that out either.

If he's not given a series or two in the middle of the game next week, to show he can be "the guy", to get the opportunities that Carson and Davis have already gotten, then I'd say it doesn't look good for AC.

Carson trucked a DB on the way to the end zone, and on one poorly-blocked play dragged a defender 2 yards to get back to the LOS. That is shining as a power back.

AC, even when he did get into the end zone, ran too upright, didn't stay behind his pads, and got decked. He also got stoned by a leg tackle on a short yardage attempt. That is stinking as a power back. I don't care how you break it down, every single person watching that game came away impressed with Carson's power and underwhelmed with Collins or at best noncommittal about Collins. Every person on every radio show, every caller. That was the reaction in the game forum, and it's the reaction after the game in the general forum.

I do agree that Collins didn't really get a look as far as regular-order carries. I found myself wondering what good it really did to keep throwing to him out of the backfield. I wondered if perhaps they like his pass blocking and are evaluating him as a third-down back on that basis?

I also agree that next week will tell us a lot. If AC is first to get carries after Lacy/Rawls, then it will just look like their plan was to swap out Collins and Carson and compare the two. If AC is behind everyone yet again, then it will look like the decision is made.

hawk45":2b7wnlw3 said:

I do agree that Collins didn't really get a look as far as regular-order carries. I found myself wondering what good it really did to keep throwing to him out of the backfield. I wondered if perhaps they like his pass blocking and are evaluating him as a third-down back on that basis?

.

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One of my working theories is they were testing AC at power back in case they want to part ways with Lacy, and were testing him as a 3rd down back in case Prosise keeps getting hurt. Those were the two jobs he was handed in game one.

ACFan":30jk6ews said:

hawk45":30jk6ews said:

I do agree that Collins didn't really get a look as far as regular-order carries. I found myself wondering what good it really did to keep throwing to him out of the backfield. I wondered if perhaps they like his pass blocking and are evaluating him as a third-down back on that basis?

.

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One of my working theories is they were testing AC at power back in case they want to part ways with Lacy, and were testing him as a 3rd down back in case Prosise keeps getting hurt. Those were the two jobs he was handed in game one.

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Cut Lacy and keep Collins? I know you like Collins but good lord my friend. The only way Collins makes the team is if they keep 5 RB's or someone gets injured in the pre-season. We just have way too much quality at the position.

ACFan":1d8e3idp said:

hawk45":1d8e3idp said:

I do agree that Collins didn't really get a look as far as regular-order carries. I found myself wondering what good it really did to keep throwing to him out of the backfield. I wondered if perhaps they like his pass blocking and are evaluating him as a third-down back on that basis?

.

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One of my working theories is they were testing AC at power back in case they want to part ways with Lacy, and were testing him as a 3rd down back in case Prosise keeps getting hurt. Those were the two jobs he was handed in game one.

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I think there's merit to the third-down back hypothesis. I saw AC throw a good chip block out there and it's already been well-documented they kept throwing to him out of the backfield. If I were them I wouldn't trust Prosise's health either.

With respect to power backs, to me it felt like every time that game they were in 3rd and short or goal line they were going to pound and pound no matter who took the handoff, to evaluate the OL and the backs. I had the sense that the only back they wouldn't pound it with was Prosise.

Seems like Lacy could indeed get cut, but that won't have anything to do with Collins. Lacy's usefulness is really weighted against what Carson does, if you think about it.

Collins is competing against Davis as a RB, but Mckissic could also very easily play into this as a returner, 3rd down back, and slot receiver.

And, of course, a lot of this is going to come down to health as usual.

vin.couve12":27wv2znn said:

Seems like Lacy could indeed get cut, but that won't have anything to do with Collins. Lacy's usefulness is really weighted against what Carson does, if you think about it.

Collins is competing against Davis as a RB, but Mckissic could also very easily play into this as a returner, 3rd down back, and slot receiver.

And, of course, a lot of this is going to come down to health as usual.

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Yea, I think the other poster misunderstood my comparison. Lacy lost the weight battle in GB, he might end up losing it here. or for some other reason may prove to be not as effective, may have a hard time with attitude, losing out to Rawls.

Regardless, it's not inconceivable we could part ways with Lacy at some point, they must have been giving AC the short yardage stuff for a reason. Could be to try and correct bad attitude of his own, who knows.

Carson had 1 short yardage attempt, for one yard, same as AC's 4 attempts. Maybe they can swap next week and we can see what Carson looks like as the short yardage runner, and give AC some 1st and 10 runs.

vin.couve12":pbb75zdz said:

Seems like Lacy could indeed get cut, but that won't have anything to do with Collins. Lacy's usefulness is really weighted against what Carson does, if you think about it.

Collins is competing against Davis as a RB, but Mckissic could also very easily play into this as a returner, 3rd down back, and slot receiver.

And, of course, a lot of this is going to come down to health as usual.

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Doubtful. $2.8M of his $4.2M is fully guaranteed.

Mert Fleryn...

vin.couve12":14clqs1k said:

Mert Fleryn...

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Nope. Flynn was kept in 2012 as backup to Russell, then traded to Oakland for a 5th and a conditional in 2013

True. :lol:

ACFan,

You should probably start rooting for Collins to be cut ASAP so another team not so loaded at RB can pick him up. Right now he's probably 6th on the RB depth chart behind McKissic, who might be kept primarily to play on ST but can also backup whatever role Procise figures to have. The best chance for your boy is to catch on somewhere else and hope for a series of injuries to more talented players ahead of him, much like what happened in Seattle in 2016. Opportunity is not the issue-- he's below average in nearly every RB skill.

[Punches self in face for encouraging ACFan to derail yet another RB thread]

All I really want to talk about is Carson. After the pick was announced, it was love at first youtube, and so far the talk from camp and the first preseason game have validated the enthusiasm. He has feature back written all over him, particularly considering the desired "personality" of this team. Really looking forward to yelling at my TV when Lacy is still getting carries ahead of him in Week 3 :lol:

Especially with stuff like this. Dude doesn't even break stride on contact and the legs just keep going. It really is still early though and Lacy has to get that ankle squared away fully.

[youtube]lkIJZsRpiP4[/youtube]

Krieg's list":36eys0bi said:

ACFan,

You should probably start rooting for Collins to be cut ASAP so another team not so loaded at RB can pick him up. Right now he's probably 6th on the RB depth chart behind McKissic, who might be kept primarily to play on ST but can also backup whatever role Procise figures to have. The best chance for your boy is to catch on somewhere else and hope for a series of injuries to more talented players ahead of him, much like what happened in Seattle in 2016. Opportunity is not the issue-- he's below average in nearly every RB skill.

[Punches self in face for encouraging ACFan to derail yet another RB thread]

All I really want to talk about is Carson. After the pick was announced, it was love at first youtube, and so far the talk from camp and the first preseason game have validated the enthusiasm. He has feature back written all over him, particularly considering the desired "personality" of this team. Really looking forward to yelling at my TV when Lacy is still getting carries ahead of him in Week 3 :lol:

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This jogged my thinking as to how teams will handle just the one cut from 90 to 53 rostered players. Is it going to be a free-for-all like free agency? Will we still have 6 running backs on our roster through that 4th preseason game or will teams take it upon themselves to gradually make cuts?

ACFan":2uhyfucs said:

Here is a breakdown of every goal line and short yardage run by RBs.

3-1-LAC 1 (11:55) 27-E.Lacy right tackle to LAC 2 for -1 yards (91-C.Reid, 90-R.Carrethers).
1-1-LAC 1 (11:44) 32-C.Carson up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
3-1-SEA 48 (4:10) 39-M.Davis up the middle to LAC 49 for 3 yards (41-R.Evans).
3-2-LAC 20 51) 36-A.Collins up the middle to LAC 19 for 1 yard (41-R.Evans).
1-3-LAC 3 (7:57) 36-A.Collins left end to LAC 3 for no gain (90-R.Carrethers, 58-N.Harris).
2-3-LAC 3 (7:11) 36-A.Collins up the middle to LAC 1 for 2 yards (58-N.Harris, 3-R.Jenkins).
3-1-LAC 1 (6:30) 36-A.Collins up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Click to expand...

So in short yardage situations where the defense was expecting run, Alex Collins got the ball primarily, 4 out of the 7 opportunities. He didn't have a single negative play out of the 4, averaging a yard for the 4 attempts. Lacy, Carson and Davis had one short yardage attempt each and went for -1, 1, and 3 yards respectively.

So did anyone really shine or stink as a power runner? No.

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Carson had two touchdown runs, both from the 1 yard line. You only list one attempt at short yardage or goal line for him.

1 rush for 1 yard doesn't shine as a power rusher, but how about 2 rushes for 2 yards and 2 TDs? That's a bit shinier.

The only reason he got only 1 yard is they don't count yards after you cross the goal line. Unfortunately, it messes with the average per carry, but take my word for it; Carson looked very good on both attempts.

KiwiHawk":1j1v6yho said:

Carson had two touchdown runs, both from the 1 yard line. You only list one attempt at short yardage or goal line for him.

1 rush for 1 yard doesn't shine as a power rusher, but how about 2 rushes for 2 yards and 2 TDs? That's a bit shinier.

The only reason he got only 1 yard is they don't count yards after you cross the goal line. Unfortunately, it messes with the average per carry, but take my word for it; Carson looked very good on both attempts.

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Thanks for the correction, I had a nagging feeling Carson did have another short yardage carry somewhere, it was his 2nd TD, duh.

I've made the same point about what multiple short yardage attempts does to an average. Collins had 4 short yardage attempts and averaged a yard a carry, Carson had two, and also averaged a yard a try.

Krieg's list":2a2tfwvc said:

ACFan,

You should probably start rooting for Collins to be cut ASAP so another team not so loaded at RB can pick him up.

Click to expand...

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, right now I just want to see us keep the best 4 or 5 RBs, whether that includes Collins or not.

I think there is still time for Collins to show he is among the top 4, but something has to change.

I've really come to think it's a matter of how Collins is responding to the coaching, it must be.

I'll preface this by saying I think AC is a really good guy, he's a lot closer to the mindset of helping an old lady across the street than grabbing her purse and running off with it.

He seemed very coachable at Arkansas, but Bielema's style may be much different than what he's getting at the pro level,and I don't think AC has responded well. He may be too sensitive, and that's 100% on AC, I don't know.

How does he respond when other backs come in and get his reps at practice?, maybe poorly, which puts him in even worse shape. just speculation.

I acknowledge that if something doesn't change quick, AC will be headed to the PS or another team.

If somehow, someone presses the right button, and lights a fire under AC, or he just learns to accept the coaching better, I still think he can prove his worth, even on a team seemingly stacked at RB.

A couple of series in the middle of the game, middle of the field, deep in the I, where we feed him the ball and let him get in a groove.

I hope he earns, or is granted that opportunity for Friday's game, by how he responds in camp this week.

vin.couve12":jv0b9o9o said:

Especially with stuff like this. Dude doesn't even break stride on contact and the legs just keep going. It really is still early though and Lacy has to get that ankle squared away fully.

[youtube]lkIJZsRpiP4[/youtube]

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No offense bro, but this hype is a little Pope-ish in nature.

It wouldn't look nearly as impressive from an end zone view, The DE was sliding over and had zero forward momentum, any RB in the league should have been able to get a yard past him after that collision. Carson was 100% N-S, the DE was almost 100% E-W.

it was a good play, not a great one.