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I think they should trade graham

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I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:17 am
  • Not hating on him or anything i like him as a player i think hes really good. But to me these past few years it just kind of feels like he doesnt really fit the offense, hes had some big games. But i think they could really do without him ,the o line is basically a disaster in shambles and they could get a good lineman for graham.

    He really just hasnt been a big difference maker for them is the truth, and they can get by without him. What good is graham if russ never has time to throw? Graham had a bad game yesterday and i honestly saw no difference than most of the games he plays he just isnt that dude for the seahawks and if he were to get traded they could still do well with the weapons on offense. They should trade him for a lineman before its too late.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:19 am
  • I said in another thread, Jimmy shrinks in the big games. I said it when he was on NO and it's stayed the same here in Seattle. When the pressure builds and the lights are the brightest he shrinks.

    He'll now go drop 100 yards and 2 tds in the second half vs the niners when were already up 3 scores....
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:24 am
  • Can we trade him for Tate and Kearse?
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:27 am
  • Yes, please get Jimmy's $10M salary off the books so we can sink it into another Luke Joeckel.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:27 am
  • gowazzu02 wrote:I said in another thread, Jimmy shrinks in the big games. I said it when he was on NO and it's stayed the same here in Seattle. When the pressure builds and the lights are the brightest he shrinks.

    He'll now go drop 100 yards and 2 tds in the second half vs the niners when were already up 3 scores....

    Hes a big time talent, but hes just not that dude for them. I just dont see the chemistry and huge difference he was supposed to make. He gets doubled but so what, russ never gets time to find anyone else anyway.

    They really can trade a guy like graham for a good lineman and to me that would benefit the team alot more, they made 2 superbowl runs with no graham. If getting rid of him means getting some much needed protection im all for it, i just wonder if they are even considering this im sure they have thought about it at some point. I mean they have to see the o line is a glaring disaster.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:28 am
  • I still think they need to move him to the WR role and get a TE that actually blocks.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:32 am
  • RussB wrote:
    gowazzu02 wrote:I said in another thread, Jimmy shrinks in the big games. I said it when he was on NO and it's stayed the same here in Seattle. When the pressure builds and the lights are the brightest he shrinks.

    He'll now go drop 100 yards and 2 tds in the second half vs the niners when were already up 3 scores....

    Hes a big time talent, but hes just not that dude for them. I just dont see the chemistry and huge difference he was supposed to make. He gets doubled but so what, russ never gets time to find anyone else anyway.

    They really can trade a guy like graham for a good lineman and to me that would benefit the team alot more, they made 2 superbowl runs with no graham. If getting rid of him means getting some much needed protection im all for it, i just wonder if they are even considering this im sure they have thought about it at some point. I mean they have to see the o line is a glaring disaster.


    That right there is the elephant in the room.

    It wasn't until Sunday afternoon that they knew the oline was that bad.

    This happens year after year, and is such a coaching red flag it's almost comical.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:42 am
  • I'm not ready to give up on Graham, he's too talented.

    But yesterday was probably the worst game he's had since we traded for him. Awful blocking, terrible route running and that drop on a crucial 3rd down where we DESPERATELY needed to convert to keep the defense off the field and potentially get even a shred of offensive momentum going?

    Brutal.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:44 am
  • I would rather see Cable or Bevell go first. He is horribly misused, with a few exceptions. Part of that is scheme, part is oline. We've only seen stagnation in both areas
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:47 am
  • Hawk_Nation wrote:I still think they need to move him to the WR role and get a TE that actually blocks.


    THIS. Should have done it a long time ago.

    I am a big believer in Graham's talent but as others have said, he just doesn't seem to be clicking w/the Hawks/RW.

    To be utilizing him as a blocker is ridiculous. Always has been.

    I hate to think trade but it's an option I'm willing to consider if we get something for him.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:54 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm not ready to give up on Graham, he's too talented.

    But yesterday was probably the worst game he's had since we traded for him. Awful blocking, terrible route running and that drop on a crucial 3rd down where we DESPERATELY needed to convert to keep the defense off the field and potentially get even a shred of offensive momentum going?

    Brutal.

    Hes super talented, but that talent hasnt been used on this team to his full potential and probably never will be. There is no protection at all, and graham has been misused alot of the time even when there is some time to target him. Whats the point of keeping him around then?

    The fact that he is such a big talent is why some team might be willing to give up an elite tackle for him, if a trade like that happens and graham has to go. Id be really happy as a fan to see wilson get some damn protection, the franchise QB is alot more important than a tight end that gets misused anyway.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:57 am
  • The thing I don't understand about the treatment of TEs on this team is that PC obviously wants a TE like Zach Miller... so why not get one? No need to spend big money on Jimmy if you aren't going to use him. Pete is great at adapting the scheme to the talents of our defensive players. Offensively he's just can't seem to figure it out completely. One the RO stopped working we've been continually befuddled on the offensive side of the ball.
    Last edited by CodeWarrior on Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:57 am
  • RussB wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm not ready to give up on Graham, he's too talented.

    But yesterday was probably the worst game he's had since we traded for him. Awful blocking, terrible route running and that drop on a crucial 3rd down where we DESPERATELY needed to convert to keep the defense off the field and potentially get even a shred of offensive momentum going?

    Brutal.

    Hes super talented, but that talent hasnt been used on this team to his full potential and probably never will be. There is no protection at all, and graham has been misused alot of the time even when there is some time to target him. Whats the point of keeping him around then?

    The fact that he is such a big talent is why some team might be willing to give up an elite tackle for him, if a trade like that happens and graham has to go. Id be really happy as a fan to see wilson get some damn protection, the franchise QB is alot more important than a tight end that gets misused anyway.


    Teams rarely trade away ELITE tackles, even for a guy like Graham. We could get some decent draft capital, which we could, in turn, use that to move up to draft an elite tackle at some point, but we aren't getting an elite tackle for Graham.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:58 am
  • Graham looked off yesterday.

    Not sure if it's physical or he's mentally checking out of an offense he and others have so little faith in.

    Really need a bounce-back game to give our team some much-needed confidence or this season could start to crumble fast...
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:01 am
  • kidhawk wrote:
    RussB wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm not ready to give up on Graham, he's too talented.

    But yesterday was probably the worst game he's had since we traded for him. Awful blocking, terrible route running and that drop on a crucial 3rd down where we DESPERATELY needed to convert to keep the defense off the field and potentially get even a shred of offensive momentum going?

    Brutal.

    Hes super talented, but that talent hasnt been used on this team to his full potential and probably never will be. There is no protection at all, and graham has been misused alot of the time even when there is some time to target him. Whats the point of keeping him around then?

    The fact that he is such a big talent is why some team might be willing to give up an elite tackle for him, if a trade like that happens and graham has to go. Id be really happy as a fan to see wilson get some damn protection, the franchise QB is alot more important than a tight end that gets misused anyway.


    Teams rarely trade away ELITE tackles, even for a guy like Graham. We could get some decent draft capital, which we could, in turn, use that to move up to draft an elite tackle at some point, but we aren't getting an elite tackle for Graham.

    Well carroll gave up unger who is really good, its not out of the question that some team just cant resist and gives up a good lineman. Graham is that type of player, teams will be calling with big offers.

    Maybe even a team like the browns who is rebuilding will give up an aging joe thomas to have graham for the future.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:01 am
  • RussB wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm not ready to give up on Graham, he's too talented.

    But yesterday was probably the worst game he's had since we traded for him. Awful blocking, terrible route running and that drop on a crucial 3rd down where we DESPERATELY needed to convert to keep the defense off the field and potentially get even a shred of offensive momentum going?

    Brutal.

    Hes super talented, but that talent hasnt been used on this team to his full potential and probably never will be. There is no protection at all, and graham has been misused alot of the time even when there is some time to target him. Whats the point of keeping him around then?

    The fact that he is such a big talent is why some team might be willing to give up an elite tackle for him, if a trade like that happens and graham has to go. Id be really happy as a fan to see wilson get some damn protection, the franchise QB is alot more important than a tight end that gets misused anyway.


    If you think this, then this is a conversation to have in the off season when teams are willing to trade their "elite talent" before the draft and free agent period to fill those roster spots.

    Sure as heck isn't now after the first game.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:05 am
  • RussB wrote:Well carroll gave up unger who is really good, its not out of the question that some team just cant resist and gives up a good lineman. Graham is that type of player, teams will be calling with big offers.

    Maybe even a team like the browns who is rebuilding will give up an aging joe thomas to have graham for the future.


    Unger is a Center, and he's good, but was aging out of being as good as he used to be. Also, Centers are not the same thing as an ELITE tackle (your words). Every team in the league seeks out good offensive tackles. Even parting with a good one isn't easy to do, but when you find an elite tackle, you hold onto him as long as you can.

    The only scenario where a mildly intelligent GM would part with a great (or elite) tackle would be if they were in the last year of a contract and they knew he wouldn't return. Then they would only be wise to do so if they can get more return than they would by losing him and regaining a 3rd round comp pick.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:15 am
  • Overreaction score 10/10.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:15 am
  • An elite tackle is a pipe dream. Let's just start with decent guard play. Did you watch Glowinski yesterday? Absolutely putrid.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:20 am
  • CodeWarrior wrote:An elite tackle is a pipe dream. Let's just start with decent guard play. Did you watch Glowinski yesterday? Absolutely putrid.

    id be happy with a nice gaurd for graham too, anything to help our boy wilson from getting murdered this season
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:24 am
  • Lets give him more than one game. I give him a small pass last year because of the injury he was recovering from. No excuse this year. He should have at least 10 TD's this season, especially with our lack of running game and small wideouts.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:44 am
  • Jimmy is the Alex Rodriguez of football. Cranks out gaudy numbers early in the season and/or in garbage time, but when the pressure is on in the big game he doesn't deliver. An incredibly talented athlete, but ultimately not worth the investment.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:49 am
  • Except for the fact that Alex was roided up, and a self centered dewsh.
    Graham, by all accounts is a good dude.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:52 am
  • Jimmy will still be a big part of this offense. He had 7 targets yesterday ... he was just off. He'll get better. He became more versatile last year and he'll be fine in the schedule ahead.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:33 am
  • I think he should play out this year as a Seahawk, but move on to another team next year. Move that money to other positions. It just hasn't worked out that great. Starting to wonder where these big acquisitions come from. Harvin? Graham? Toys for Bevell?
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:36 am
  • He knows he is going elsewhere next year. I think he will still compete because he wants the payday from Dallas but suspect he will be cautious as the last thing he wants is an injury.

    Just a guess witten retires and Dallas signs Jimmy.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:40 am
  • Trade graham for Oline and sign Gary Barnidge for a cheap 1 year deal.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:52 am
  • If you trade Graham away, all you do is increase the likelihood of coverage sacks. Wilson's receiving corps is small and injury-prone as it is. He won't improve with fewer targets to throw to.

    This was a rare down game for Graham (he was robbed of a TD by the refs) and there are no elite tackles out there just sitting around in some insurance office waiting to be remembered. This is the hand we've been dealt.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:55 am
  • Hawk_Nation wrote:I still think they need to move him to the WR role and get a TE that actually blocks.


    This..I wish they would use him more as a WR and use him seldomly at TE
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:00 am
  • Siouxhawk wrote:Jimmy will still be a big part of this offense. He had 7 targets yesterday ... he was just off. He'll get better. He became more versatile last year and he'll be fine in the schedule ahead.


    His blocking was a weakness coming here, yet they continue to try to force him to block. Like forcing s square peg into a round hole.

    Graham is an elite level receiver, but the fact that his play style, and inability to block when called upon to do so, is reason to move on.

    The offensive coaching staff refuses to comform to his strengths, not using him properly. That is the biggest problem above all else. Pure stubbornness by our coaching staff to adjust offensive and cater the offense to use Graham at his upmost strength: a pass catcher, not a blocker
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:11 am
  • Jerhawk wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:Jimmy will still be a big part of this offense. He had 7 targets yesterday ... he was just off. He'll get better. He became more versatile last year and he'll be fine in the schedule ahead.


    His blocking was a weakness coming here, yet they continue to try to force him to block. Like forcing s square peg into a round hole.

    Graham is an elite level receiver, but the fact that his play style, and inability to block when called upon to do so, is reason to move on.

    The offensive coaching staff refuses to comform to his strengths, not using him properly. That is the biggest problem above all else. Pure stubbornness by our coaching staff to adjust offensive and cater the offense to use Graham at his upmost strength: a pass catcher, not a blocker

    They worked on his blocking all of last year, which he was more willing to do. He became a more multi-dimensional player, which Pete cherishes. The video illustration in this thread doesn't say much for it, but he usually is good at making a necessary chip. I like Jimmy and believe he'll still be a big part of our offense, but he needs to get some stickum for those drops.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:10 pm
  • Hawk_Nation wrote:I still think they need to move him to the WR role and get a TE that actually blocks.


    This makes sense. And we could try it immediately if Willson or Vannett are already better blockers.

    I see our top priority being to protect Russ from injury, and using the awfulness of last year's early season OL, we can estimate that Russ will get hurt twice this year while the OL learns to block better.

    Rodgers responded to our pressure with quick passing, but Russell did not respond in kind, and we have to ask why not.

    I would give Russ predictable outlets on both sidelines --- Graham on one sideline, McEvoy on the other, with passes thrown high where they can beat DBs with their height, and if overthrown the ball goes out of bounds with no chance of an interception. How far downfield can they run in 1.5 seconds, or however long Russ has to pass? GIve Russell two predictable targets, so when the defense comes rushing at him he can dodge the first one, which move move him either right or left, and he will have his safe outlet receiver waiting for him whichever way he dodges.

    We need to practice and employ quick passing, to prevent Wilson from being injured, while we wait for the OL to learn to block.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:13 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    RussB wrote:
    gowazzu02 wrote:I said in another thread, Jimmy shrinks in the big games. I said it when he was on NO and it's stayed the same here in Seattle. When the pressure builds and the lights are the brightest he shrinks.

    He'll now go drop 100 yards and 2 tds in the second half vs the niners when were already up 3 scores....

    Hes a big time talent, but hes just not that dude for them. I just dont see the chemistry and huge difference he was supposed to make. He gets doubled but so what, russ never gets time to find anyone else anyway.

    They really can trade a guy like graham for a good lineman and to me that would benefit the team alot more, they made 2 superbowl runs with no graham. If getting rid of him means getting some much needed protection im all for it, i just wonder if they are even considering this im sure they have thought about it at some point. I mean they have to see the o line is a glaring disaster.


    That right there is the elephant in the room.

    It wasn't until Sunday afternoon that they knew the oline was that bad.

    This happens year after year, and is such a coaching red flag it's almost comical.


    They must have known. They have our defensive line to test our offensive line. Clearly they knew, and stubbornly bulled ahead ignoring that knowledge.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:23 pm
  • Jerhawk wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:Jimmy will still be a big part of this offense. He had 7 targets yesterday ... he was just off. He'll get better. He became more versatile last year and he'll be fine in the schedule ahead.


    His blocking was a weakness coming here, yet they continue to try to force him to block. Like forcing s square peg into a round hole.

    Graham is an elite level receiver, but the fact that his play style, and inability to block when called upon to do so, is reason to move on.

    The offensive coaching staff refuses to comform to his strengths, not using him properly. That is the biggest problem above all else. Pure stubbornness by our coaching staff to adjust offensive and cater the offense to use Graham at his upmost strength: a pass catcher, not a blocker


    I agree. The core problem of our offense is "Pure stubbornness by our coaching staff to adjust offens"e.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:33 pm
  • I'd look to trade Graham. He just doesn't seem to be a good fit for the Seattle Seahawks. We don't utilize him properly, and the chemistry between RW and Graham seems rather forced on the field. Quite rarely do they look to be on the same page. This experiment has failed in my opinion. Graham is a good player, but I don't think we will ever play him up to his potential in Seattle. His skill sets run contrary to how we have used our tight ends in the Pete Carroll era.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:33 pm
  • Hawk_Nation wrote:I still think they need to move him to the WR role and get a TE that actually blocks.


    They never did replace Zack Miller. What a big loss that was.

    I had hoped Nick Vannett would develop into a complete tight end. But, that concussion word may be getting in the way.

    I suspect that with only 3 tight ends of record, the roster is pretty much set for the moment.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:45 pm
  • Hawk_Nation wrote:I still think they need to move him to the WR role and get a TE that actually blocks.


    This is a great idea. He struggled blocking yesterday. Here's to hoping he vastly improves in a very short time.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:47 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Except for the fact that Alex was roided up, and a self centered dewsh.
    Graham, by all accounts is a good dude.


    I agree, but I was referring to his production. A-Rod was the king of the stat sheet and cranking homers in May, come October he couldn't lay down a bunt. The similarity to Jimmy's production not being when it matters most is what I was referring to. If that rings a bell it's because that is the exact point I made in my previous post.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:49 pm
  • I hear ya, for how good he is, he seems to be incredibly under used
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:32 pm
  • I agree time to look elsewhere Jimmy. If we could get a good RG for him i'd be happy, He's been a failure baring a few good games here and there.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:44 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:If you trade Graham away, all you do is increase the likelihood of coverage sacks. Wilson's receiving corps is small and injury-prone as it is. He won't improve with fewer targets to throw to.

    This was a rare down game for Graham (he was robbed of a TD by the refs) and there are no elite tackles out there just sitting around in some insurance office waiting to be remembered. This is the hand we've been dealt.

    They got to 2 superbowls without a star tight end. Difference then was that the o line was actually somewhat decent and could help the offense keep the defense off the feild.

    Trading graham for a lineman helps the team, keeping him with zero protection hinders the team.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:45 pm
  • RW does not help Jimmy too much.
    Do you ever see him throw it up there where Jimmy likes it?
    The one time I saw it in the RZ ..Jimmy gets held down.
    Jimmy just can't win in Seattle.
    Trade him as we cannot use him right.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:49 pm
  • Jimmy's relatively old and in the last year of his contract. No team is likely to trade him for even an average OL, especially a young one we can develop and maybe resign. Would have to throw in picks as well. Decent OL are really rare around the league. Check around some other fan websites or subreddits and you'll see half of them complaining about how bad their lines are. Guess they haven't seen many Hawks games...
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:01 pm
  • I was not a fan of the Graham trade from the beginning. Carroll always says: "Know who you are." In this instance, we forgot who we were. We traded Max Unger for Jimmy Graham! That decreased our power on the offensive line with the Tight End that cannot block. Here are the reasons why I believe we should trade Graham:

    He is a finesse player on a smash mouth team and does not fit us
    We are a run first team and he cannot block at all
    We got him so we could be better in the red zone, but him and Russell have not clicked in the red zone for two years
    He shrinks in big games
    We do not use him for what we pay him
    We could use that $10 million on our books....none of it is money we would still have to pay him if we trade him
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:01 pm
  • Jville wrote:
    Hawk_Nation wrote:I still think they need to move him to the WR role and get a TE that actually blocks.


    They never did replace Zack Miller. What a big loss that was.

    I had hoped Nick Vannett would develop into a complete tight end. But, that concussion word may be getting in the way.

    I suspect that with only 3 tight ends of record, the roster is pretty much set for the moment.


    They have Swoops on the PS that has flashed and is still learning the position if they "had to". But ya, suggesting this trade at this point in the game is a bit late anyway.
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:19 pm
  • Well we aren't trading Cable or Bevell. We could possibly get help for Jimmy. What about an average tackle and guard?
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:32 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:RW does not help Jimmy too much.
    Do you ever see him throw it up there where Jimmy likes it?
    The one time I saw it in the RZ ..Jimmy gets held down.
    Jimmy just can't win in Seattle.
    Trade him as we cannot use him right.


    It is not that "we" cannot use him right.....Mr. Bevell does not know how to use him properly. Nearly everyone on this message board was "jumping for joy" when Jimmy initially came to the Hawks. Soooo....what happened?
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:41 pm
  • Bigpumpkin wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:RW does not help Jimmy too much.
    Do you ever see him throw it up there where Jimmy likes it?
    The one time I saw it in the RZ ..Jimmy gets held down.
    Jimmy just can't win in Seattle.
    Trade him as we cannot use him right.


    It is not that "we" cannot use him right.....Mr. Bevell does not know how to use him properly. Nearly everyone on this message board was "jumping for joy" when Jimmy initially came to the Hawks. Soooo....what happened?



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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:16 pm
  • Keep Graham.
    Get an OC that knows how to use him.
    We are the only team in the NFL that would have traded for Jimmy and then use him as a blocker......
    Send Lawyers, Guns and Money!
    GO 'HAWKS!!
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Re: I think they should trade graham
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:42 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Bigpumpkin wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:RW does not help Jimmy too much.
    Do you ever see him throw it up there where Jimmy likes it?
    The one time I saw it in the RZ ..Jimmy gets held down.
    Jimmy just can't win in Seattle.
    Trade him as we cannot use him right.


    It is not that "we" cannot use him right.....Mr. Bevell does not know how to use him properly. Nearly everyone on this message board was "jumping for joy" when Jimmy initially came to the Hawks. Soooo....what happened?


    Never jumped for joy. Was against it when it happened. Not a player that we needed

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