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Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!

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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:24 pm
  • seabowl wrote:
    SixSeahawk wrote:With everything going on in the world, leave it up to people from Seattle to suggest protesting something like this LMAO

    First world problems indeed.


    Problem is I am the OP and I'm from NY where (and don't get pissed WA residents) they would NEVER stand for the terrible decisions by Bevell and crew without displaying public displeasure, MEDIA INCLUDED. I cannot even fathom Bevel having to answer to the NY media for his ridiculous calls.

    Look if the people in the Seattle area are fed up with Bevell/Cable as much as they say they are then for sake, voice your opinion in a public domain like the stadium, large billboard or the sky.

    You may be surprised at the power the people as a whole hold. Get Pauls attention.


    Bevell would have been gone immediately the day after 49 in New York because of the notion you don't come back from that play otherwise. As much as ny fans are a bit knee jerk reactors, i think a coughlin/parcells coach would have won 2-3 titles with this squad because all the nonsense wouldn't be tolerated. Baldwin would have been immediately benched for the finger (even if it was in good fun). In New York Carroll would have been axed last year in an attempt to try and salvage the quality years left of our aging defense as the ny media would see him as running the dynasty into the ground.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:37 pm
  • I guess I don't see the valid point. Are you saying New York is superior to Seattle or something? I consider New York media akin to TMZ in trustworthiness.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:42 pm
  • seabowl wrote:Regarding your theory of how the Hawks have won so much, I agree that as a team they have won a lot of games but most would agree it's despite what the offense has contributed not because of what they have contributed.

    I don't think you can look at the different aspects of this team in a vacuum. Pete built this team around the defense and mainly wants the offense not to screw things up. Look at how effective the offense can be when we get down in games and have to start chucking it. The potential is there as soon as we become risk seekers.

    sdog1981 wrote:So no matter how conservative your offensive philosophy is you still need first downs. First downs are the life blood of a ball control offense and this team can't even do that.

    Of course they need first downs. Pretty much everybody connected with the offense other than Richardson had a poor outing. The Packers offense also struggled most of Sunday. Should they be protesting too or would you counsel they not freak out about a single game against a top NFC team?

    OpHawk wrote:It's incredible to me that this garbage from the offense is met with such little resistance from the fanbase and local media.

    And how are you resisting it? Setting up some tents at Coulon Beach to start an Occupy Lake Washington movement? Should the team's winning percentage factor into your protest plans? At least protest a team that is actually doing poorly like the Mariners or something.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:48 pm
  • Siouxhawk wrote:I guess I don't see the valid point. Are you saying New York is superior to Seattle or something? I consider New York media akin to TMZ in trustworthiness.


    Not at all. But they would have kept the chemistry together by tossing bevell. And then went on to win 75-80% of the games under the new OC because Lynch would have stayed and Lynch and the defense are responsible for the winning percentage.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:52 pm
  • AgentDib wrote:We lost a single road game at Lambeau by 8 points with a couple of significant calls that went against us. If you need some outside perspective about spoiled fan bases just read what many Patriot fans are saying this week about Tom Brady. I don't think Hawks fans are that bad yet but it's getting close.


    Yeah.....about that......after Tom Brady got mauled in the 2016 AFC title game the Patriots fired their SuperBowl winning Oline coach and begged for their retired Oline coach to come back out of retirement. So much like in the movie The Karate Kid the Patriots "Sweep The Leg" and show no mercy. That is why they are one of the most successful team the league has seen in the past 20 years.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:53 pm
  • NJlargent wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:I guess I don't see the valid point. Are you saying New York is superior to Seattle or something? I consider New York media akin to TMZ in trustworthiness.


    Not at all. But they would have kept the chemistry together by tossing bevell. And then went on to win 75-80% of the games under the new OC because Lynch would have stayed and Lynch and the defense are responsible for the winning percentage.


    Siouxhawk, c'mon man. You seriously don't understand what he was saying?

    I'll simplify it:

    The media in new York would ask the same questions we (except for you) are asking here. These are absolutely valid questions and concerns. The Seattle media for whatever reason walks on eggshells with the Hawks. They would have crucified him in new York.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:14 pm
  • The only way our 2 severely under performing offensive coaches get '86'ed is if it comes from the top, Mr. Allen.
    He is a hands off owner which is generally a good thing, but in this case IMHO those terminations are more than warranted and I would love it to happen, but it won't unless something drastic happens as he lets his HC and GM call those shots.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:20 pm
  • johnnyfever wrote:
    NJlargent wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:I guess I don't see the valid point. Are you saying New York is superior to Seattle or something? I consider New York media akin to TMZ in trustworthiness.


    Not at all. But they would have kept the chemistry together by tossing bevell. And then went on to win 75-80% of the games under the new OC because Lynch would have stayed and Lynch and the defense are responsible for the winning percentage.


    Siouxhawk, c'mon man. You seriously don't understand what he was saying?

    I'll simplify it:

    The media in new York would ask the same questions we (except for you) are asking here. These are absolutely valid questions and concerns. The Seattle media for whatever reason walks on eggshells with the Hawks. They would have crucified him in new York.

    The Seattle media asked Pete if Bevell was a weakness half a year ago and he said those saying that don't know what the hell they are talking about. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

    And it really is hyperbole to come up with this mock SB49 scenario as told through the eyes of a New York team. I don't know a whole lot about Coughlin, but he seems old school and has sense enough to not let impulsive overreaction get in the way of what's best for the organization.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:22 pm
  • And I'm sure Paul Allen is quite pleased with the success and attention of his club and understands it's in capable hands.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:54 pm
  • Too bad the 49ers weren't dumb enough to hire Tom Cable....I was hoping they would.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:13 am
  • Well every year for the past 10 years I take the entire family up to a Seahawks home game and make a long weekend out of it. There are 7 of us and the airfare/hotel/meals/tickets pile up to a nice sum. It is a tradition for the family. Not this year. That's how I am protesting. No one will know the difference but I bet there are a few more doing the same thing?
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:49 am
  • The CLink will still be sold out.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:17 pm
  • Protesting, meh. Doesn't prove a thing, or change anything.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:48 pm
  • sdog1981 wrote:
    AgentDib wrote: popular units and the expectation is that good NFL teams will score lots of points. .



    This is wrong. The team needs to have an offense that gets FIRST DOWNS, the rest will follow. If the Seahawks could have had a few more drives with at least 2 first downs then the game is completely different. The defense would still be aggressive because they would be rested and not playing 2/3 of the game. The Seahawks offense was on the field for 48 plays that is dysfunction for even Woody Hayes "3 yards and a cloud of dust" So no matter how conservative your offensive philosophy is you still need first downs. First downs are the life blood of a ball control offense and this team can't even do that.


    Can you imagine how scary the D would be if the O could actually sustain some drives?
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:03 pm
  • Ace_Rimmer wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:
    AgentDib wrote: popular units and the expectation is that good NFL teams will score lots of points. .



    This is wrong. The team needs to have an offense that gets FIRST DOWNS, the rest will follow. If the Seahawks could have had a few more drives with at least 2 first downs then the game is completely different. The defense would still be aggressive because they would be rested and not playing 2/3 of the game. The Seahawks offense was on the field for 48 plays that is dysfunction for even Woody Hayes "3 yards and a cloud of dust" So no matter how conservative your offensive philosophy is you still need first downs. First downs are the life blood of a ball control offense and this team can't even do that.


    Can you imagine how scary the D would be if the O could actually sustain some drives?


    If teams were forced to up their risk profile playing down points and trying to close the gap?

    Sign me up.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:51 pm
  • mrt144 wrote:
    Ace_Rimmer wrote:
    Can you imagine how scary the D would be if the O could actually sustain some drives?

    If teams were forced to up their risk profile playing down points and trying to close the gap?

    Sign me up.




    Exactly, get the first downs and the rest will follow. You can only have a ball control offense if your team controls the ball i.e. first downs. 10 play drives are body blows if the Seahawks could have gotten a few of those they could have started the Second half up 9-0, how would the Packers have played if they were down two scores and had very little TOP? They would start to double down and make mistakes.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:33 am
  • I wasn't super happy with my morning dump. It's now under protest.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:46 am
  • sdog1981 wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:
    Ace_Rimmer wrote:
    Can you imagine how scary the D would be if the O could actually sustain some drives?

    If teams were forced to up their risk profile playing down points and trying to close the gap?

    Sign me up.




    Exactly, get the first downs and the rest will follow. You can only have a ball control offense if your team controls the ball i.e. first downs. 10 play drives are body blows if the Seahawks could have gotten a few of those they could have started the Second half up 9-0, how would the Packers have played if they were down two scores and had very little TOP? They would start to double down and make mistakes.


    Hard to run a ball control offense when your gameplan is throwing behind the LOS or 50 yds deep.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:12 am
  • You haters need to aim higher!

    Wake up or shut up, pls.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:57 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:The only way our 2 severely under performing offensive coaches get '86'ed is if it comes from the top, Mr. Allen.
    He is a hands off owner which is generally a good thing, but in this case IMHO those terminations are more than warranted and I would love it to happen, but it won't unless something drastic happens as he lets his HC and GM call those shots.


    Paul Allen isn't a meddling owner like Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder.

    He's a delegator, he trusts Pete and John to do the hiring and firing. So no, it's not going to come from Allen if either or Bevell/Cable are fired. If Bevell and Cable are gone from Allen? Then that means he fired Pete.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:39 am
  • I guess that old saying about not being able to argue with success doesn't apply on here. That's why the knee-jerk reactionists are outside noise to the organization. The real decision makers have a plan that continues to make this team elite and I'll stand by them.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:03 am
  • Siouxhawk wrote:I guess that old saying about not being able to argue with success doesn't apply on here. That's why the knee-jerk reactionists are outside noise to the organization. The real decision makers have a plan that continues to make this team elite and I'll stand by them.


    If you ever go to a Patriot's board, or talk to a Patriots fan, this stuff reminds me of that.

    They're so spoiled that they expect to win every game 45-10, and if they don't, or god forbid lose............it's OFF WITH EVERYONE'S HEAD! Bench Brady! Belichick's Lost it!, Fire Patricia! Trade Gronk!

    That's how some of our fans are. Win, and it's we're going all the way baby! Lose, and it's another Monday of this garbage.

    Protesting? Now that's a new one, I'd actually love to see some idiot outside the Clink with Bevell protest signs. That'd be freaking hilarious.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:07 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Protesting? Now that's a new one, I'd actually love to see some idiot outside the Clink with Bevell protest signs. That'd be freaking hilarious.



    That would be funny Or organize a sit in at a team practice. Maybe even get them, 4Chan guys, to do some meme work on the subject.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:08 am
  • KARAVARUS wrote:Pats fans whining about losing one game are doing exactly that. Hawks fans fed up with the same immobile offense have the right after last year, to have expected change this time around. The complaints are not only because we lost to the Packers in Green Bay, they are because of the pattern. I'm willing to wait it out, but there's no reason we should not be up by three scores on the Niners at half time on Sunday. If we are under 10 points, expect people to be pissed. I will be one. I'll never boycott the team, but I will certainly wish I could and understand those who do. It's fricking hard to watch, yo.


    Patriots fans whined for nine straight years while their team didn't win a Super Bowl with Brady and Belichick. Had one play gone differently on the goal line, it would have been 10 in a row.

    I'm concerned about the line problems and offense like everybody else, but even the most successful franchise streak in the last two decades, maybe ever, has a lot of "failing" in it.

    I get people want better, but this idea that the Patriots are so consistently good that they win all these Super Bowls year in and out is an exaggeration of their success.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:11 am
  • I rail against Cable but the guy to protest is quite obviously Pete Carroll himself. He doesn't want a pass-heavy offense, and won't take risks even when it's clear we can't run the ball and so being protective in the passing game is just far too limiting to result in success.

    Secondly, he is hopelessly blinkered by Tom Cable. I do not say that Cable is worthless, but Pete just seems lost evaluating Cable's strengths and weaknesses. Pete treats Cable as if Cable is every bit the OL guru that Pete is a defensive guru, and that approach has been a disaster.

    It's one area where I wish Pete and John would just accept their limitations and maybe just follow Kiper's board or some vanilla draft evaluator where it concerns OL because it's the one position where their smartest-guy-in-the-room approach to drafting falls down.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:18 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:I guess that old saying about not being able to argue with success doesn't apply on here. That's why the knee-jerk reactionists are outside noise to the organization. The real decision makers have a plan that continues to make this team elite and I'll stand by them.


    If you ever go to a Patriot's board, or talk to a Patriots fan, this stuff reminds me of that.

    They're so spoiled that they expect to win every game 45-10, and if they don't, or god forbid lose............it's OFF WITH EVERYONE'S HEAD! Bench Brady! Belichick's Lost it!, Fire Patricia! Trade Gronk!

    That's how some of our fans are. Win, and it's we're going all the way baby! Lose, and it's another Monday of this garbage.

    Protesting? Now that's a new one, I'd actually love to see some idiot outside the Clink with Bevell protest signs. That'd be freaking hilarious.

    That's probably not surprising about the Patriots board. We live in such an instant gratification and me-first world fueled by social media, that everyone thinks they have the right to pounce. I guess they do have the right, but it's also why teams like the Hawks and Patriots blatantly disregard it as outside noise. And rightfully so.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:21 am
  • hawk45 wrote:I rail against Cable but the guy to protest is quite obviously Pete Carroll himself. He doesn't want a pass-heavy offense, and won't take risks even when it's clear we can't run the ball and so being protective in the passing game is just far too limiting to result in success.

    Secondly, he is hopelessly blinkered by Tom Cable. I do not say that Cable is worthless, but Pete just seems lost evaluating Cable's strengths and weaknesses. Pete treats Cable as if Cable is every bit the OL guru that Pete is a defensive guru, and that approach has been a disaster.

    It's one area where I wish Pete and John would just accept their limitations and maybe just follow Kiper's board or some vanilla draft evaluator where it concerns OL because it's the one position where their smartest-guy-in-the-room approach to drafting falls down.


    We talked about this last year when the offense was struggling, I'd LOVE to see Pete change up his offensive philosophy to a more pass oriented attack.

    IMO it's how the entire NFL is geared, not only college to pro personnel wise (80% of colleges run spread attacks), but also how it's officiated giving a HUGE advantage to receivers.

    Russell is certainly ready to have the reins taken off, but sadly Pete is stuck in old school run the ball to wear down the defense and impose your will mode. Which was fine when we had a good line and a HOF RB..................now? Not so much.

    Cable? Eh, he's just doing the best he can with the garbage Pete and John give him. I honestly don't think a new line coach could do any better. These guys are horrible, not sure how you can make bottom tier lineman good in one year, or ever.

    You either draft studs like the Cowboys did, or you overpay for in FA. We do neither. We bargain bin shop, and it shows on the field.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:28 am
  • Siouxhawk wrote:I guess that old saying about not being able to argue with success doesn't apply on here. That's why the knee-jerk reactionists are outside noise to the organization. The real decision makers have a plan that continues to make this team elite and I'll stand by them.


    But we haven't been successful since the 2013 season. And since we let our two best linemen walk (Unger in 2014, Okung in 2015), sunk $10M into a move tight end that we use inline to block, and have a franchise QB that makes more than the entire OL that's supposed to protect him; I think it's entirely appropriate to question whether that side of the ball is being managed appropriately.

    I think the roster moves we've made on O, coupled with the drop to the middle of the pack offensively -- even when bolstered by blowouts of weaker teams -- indicate that this team is no longer a superbowl contender. The defense, though elite, can not win us a superbowl when they are on the field 35-40 minutes a game.

    And *of course* the offense supports their coaches! Wouldn't you support your boss if he continually gave you opportunities, but never held you accountable? The defense holds each other accountable, and they produce because of it. The offense, not so much. They're giggling and having fun on the sidelines during a loss. When's the last time you saw someone on the offense get mad or in somebody's face? They have no bar. They have no standard to meet. Every time they screw up, it's an "oops, maybe next time" reaction. And that attitude starts with the coaches.

    Maybe Pete's 'disappointing' remark signals they are on notice, but if the offense struggles again like it did last year someone needs to be held accountable.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:32 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hawk45 wrote:I rail against Cable but the guy to protest is quite obviously Pete Carroll himself. He doesn't want a pass-heavy offense, and won't take risks even when it's clear we can't run the ball and so being protective in the passing game is just far too limiting to result in success.

    Secondly, he is hopelessly blinkered by Tom Cable. I do not say that Cable is worthless, but Pete just seems lost evaluating Cable's strengths and weaknesses. Pete treats Cable as if Cable is every bit the OL guru that Pete is a defensive guru, and that approach has been a disaster.

    It's one area where I wish Pete and John would just accept their limitations and maybe just follow Kiper's board or some vanilla draft evaluator where it concerns OL because it's the one position where their smartest-guy-in-the-room approach to drafting falls down.


    We talked about this last year when the offense was struggling, I'd LOVE to see Pete change up his offensive philosophy to a more pass oriented attack.

    IMO it's how the entire NFL is geared, not only college to pro personnel wise (80% of colleges run spread attacks), but also how it's officiated giving a HUGE advantage to receivers.

    Russell is certainly ready to have the reins taken off, but sadly Pete is stuck in old school run the ball to wear down the defense and impose your will mode. Which was fine when we had a good line and a HOF RB..................now? Not so much.

    Cable? Eh, he's just doing the best he can with the garbage Pete and John give him. I honestly don't think a new line coach could do any better. These guys are horrible, not sure how you can make bottom tier lineman good in one year, or ever.

    You either draft studs like the Cowboys did, or you overpay for in FA. We do neither. We bargain bin shop, and it shows on the field.


    It's not bargain bin shopping, see the other thread about us having spent the most draft capital of any team from 2010 on OL. It's poor drafting.

    I'm inclined to think Cable bears heavy responsibility for not being able to mesh with John to identify players that fit what Cable is trying to do. Or to develop the players he gets. But even if it's just John sucking at drafting OL, I feel it'd get better with a different OL coach that John was drafting to.

    You're 100% right though that if you can't draft well for whatever reason, then overpay in FA. To do neither doesn't do Cable any favors, even if Cable himself is part of the drafting problem. They should pay through the nose for a tackle if one is ever available this next offseason, either side, and the money can come right from where Graham's cap hit used to be.

    While I feel Bevell - constrained by Pete and beset by poor blocking - is last on the list of culpability, the one damning thing is the way it has taken us years to incorporate Graham into the offense and he still isn't a big part of red zone. That is unforgivable IMO. But whatever I am just thankful that Bevell seems to be able to incorporate the home-grown receivers just fine.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:47 am
  • hawk45 wrote:
    It's not bargain bin shopping, see the other thread about us having spent the most draft capital of any team from 2010 on OL. It's poor drafting..


    There are other ways to "bargain bin."

    We never trade up to grab a lineman, we constantly trade down to get reaches that are "Cable guys." Ifedi, Carp, etc.

    That to me is Schneider doing his trade down to get more picks thing, which is fine when we're drafting ANY other position other than O-line.

    Just not a good philosophy when it comes to a very low hit rate in the NFL for good lineman. If you need em, which we ALWAYS do, you don't trade down and grab some reach that's a project.

    So either quit doing this, cause it obviously doesn't work. Or carve out more cap space for the O-line so you can overpay for TJ Lang or any of the other O-lineman we lost out on.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:50 am
  • Denver ran the ZBS for years using no names, guys quick and athletic, but the rules were different then, trying to use the same scheme with bigger and not as agile guys and different rules may be one of the issues.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:55 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hawk45 wrote:
    It's not bargain bin shopping, see the other thread about us having spent the most draft capital of any team from 2010 on OL. It's poor drafting..


    There are other ways to "bargain bin."

    We never trade up to grab a lineman, we constantly trade down to get reaches that are "Cable guys." Ifedi, Carp, etc.

    That to me is Schneider doing his trade down to get more picks thing, which is fine when we're drafting ANY other position other than O-line.

    Just not a good philosophy when it comes to a very low hit rate in the NFL for good lineman. If you need em, which we ALWAYS do, you don't trade down and grab some reach that's a project.

    So either quit doing this, cause it obviously doesn't work. Or carve out more cap space for the O-line so you can overpay for TJ Lang or any of the other O-lineman we lost out on.


    Point taken, and 100% agree. They need to get "dumber" when drafting OL, i.e. forget about finding the guy that no one else found, and just take the most can't-miss prospect you can get your hands on, and trade up to get him if you have to. Or, back up the Brinks truck in FA.

    I know the money has to come from somewhere for the FA approach but the 10M they are paying Graham would be a good start IMO. I would trade all of their homerun attempts at FA offensive easy-buttons like Harvin and Graham for a splashy OL signing and the team would be better for it, I have no doubt.

    (Lynch doesn't count as a homerun attempt IMO because he was on the outs in Buffalo. Lynch counts as a smartest-guy-in-the-room bargain trade that was maybe the best in franchise history).
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:58 am
  • Own The West wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:I guess that old saying about not being able to argue with success doesn't apply on here. That's why the knee-jerk reactionists are outside noise to the organization. The real decision makers have a plan that continues to make this team elite and I'll stand by them.


    But we haven't been successful since the 2013 season. And since we let our two best linemen walk (Unger in 2014, Okung in 2015), sunk $10M into a move tight end that we use inline to block, and have a franchise QB that makes more than the entire OL that's supposed to protect him; I think it's entirely appropriate to question whether that side of the ball is being managed appropriately.

    I think the roster moves we've made on O, coupled with the drop to the middle of the pack offensively -- even when bolstered by blowouts of weaker teams -- indicate that this team is no longer a superbowl contender. The defense, though elite, can not win us a superbowl when they are on the field 35-40 minutes a game.

    And *of course* the offense supports their coaches! Wouldn't you support your boss if he continually gave you opportunities, but never held you accountable? The defense holds each other accountable, and they produce because of it. The offense, not so much. They're giggling and having fun on the sidelines during a loss. When's the last time you saw someone on the offense get mad or in somebody's face? They have no bar. They have no standard to meet. Every time they screw up, it's an "oops, maybe next time" reaction. And that attitude starts with the coaches.

    Maybe Pete's 'disappointing' remark signals they are on notice, but if the offense struggles again like it did last year someone needs to be held accountable.

    Enjoy your writing style, but I don't think basing the performance of last year's offense, when Russ, the lifeblood of the team dealt with 3 hampering injuries, indicates a regression in offense when it was top 10 DVOA the 4 years prior.

    And it's hard to take your points seriously when you don't consider making it to the Super Bowl just 3 years ago a successful season. Gives me everything I need to know about your mindset.

    And the whole sideline business is lacking any context for either you or me to make any verifiable judgements.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:59 am
  • chris98251 wrote:Denver ran the ZBS for years using no names, guys quick and athletic, but the rules were different then, trying to use the same scheme with bigger and not as agile guys and different rules may be one of the issues.


    No names?

    Terrell Davis ran behind future HOF'ers and Pro Bowlers for most of his career when the ZBS was at it's height in Denver.

    Mark Schlereth, Gary Zimmerman (HOF), Tom Nalen (I don't even know how many Pro Bowls, a LOT), etc.

    I don't care what schemes you're running on either side of the ball, talent matters. Our JV line can't even keep guys off Russell for half a second, not sure how we're expecting them to successfully zone block, which takes communication and being synchronized.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:05 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Denver ran the ZBS for years using no names, guys quick and athletic, but the rules were different then, trying to use the same scheme with bigger and not as agile guys and different rules may be one of the issues.


    No names?

    Terrell Davis ran behind future HOF'ers and Pro Bowlers for most of his career when the ZBS was at it's height in Denver.

    Mark Schlereth, Gary Zimmerman (HOF), Tom Nalen (I don't even know how many Pro Bowls, a LOT), etc.

    I don't care what schemes you're running on either side of the ball, talent matters. Our JV line can't even keep guys off Russell for half a second, not sure how we're expecting them to successfully zone block, which takes communication and being synchronized.


    I will say that I can see the OL being "good enough" at run-blocking at some point later in the season, especially if Carson is the back. That 30-yard run he had screamed Terrell Davis at me, one decisive cut-back where McEvoy and Willson both chopped down defenders to seal the cutback lane and Carson was off to the races. He made another nifty cutback on the run downfield, but that initial cutback is what I'm looking for in a zone blocking scheme.

    By Lacy's 2nd carry I was screaming at the TV and completely off the "what harm in starting Lacy" fence. I want Carson out there with Prosise as 3rd down back and Rawls as the guy who comes in to give Carson a blow after he rips off a 30 yarder and is gassed.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:14 am
  • hawk45 wrote:
    By Lacy's 2nd carry I was screaming at the TV and completely off the "what harm in starting Lacy" fence. I want Carson out there with Prosise as 3rd down back and Rawls as the guy who comes in to give Carson a blow after he rips off a 30 yarder and is gassed.


    You don't have to convince me, I yelled for Carson to start two weeks ago.

    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=137958

    Not Lacy's fault, but he's not the type of back that can have success running behind this line. He needs space to point north and get to the 2nd level so he can run over DB's.

    Carson's the perfect back for zone blocking, find a cut back lane quickly and hit it hard........saw it last week. Best run of the day.

    But Pete's gonna keep giving Lacy his carriers to fail and frustrate us and put the offense in 2nd and 12 situations.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:21 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:But Pete's gonna keep giving Lacy his carriers to fail and frustrate us and put the offense in 2nd and 12 situations.


    I'm not so sure about that. Pete has shown a little flexibility with the run game i.e. last year when the run was clearly not working because the blocking wasn't there yet he would go away from it, which wasn't something I thought he had in him.

    Plus I have to believe Cable is in his ear about Carson executing the zone blocking concepts better and Cable clearly holds a lot of influence over Pete for better or worse.

    We'll see. I remember last year when we ran Collins 3 straight times leaving me bewildered on the couch. I do not know if that sort of inexplicable thing comes from Pete or Bevell. To me, running Lacy is approaching that level of inexplicable.

    The good news is I no longer care about Lacy's weight since it's clear that even in-shape he isn't a fit.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:44 am
  • hawk45 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:But Pete's gonna keep giving Lacy his carriers to fail and frustrate us and put the offense in 2nd and 12 situations.


    I'm not so sure about that. Pete has shown a little flexibility with the run game i.e. last year when the run was clearly not working because the blocking wasn't there yet he would go away from it, which wasn't something I thought he had in him.



    Pete only shows flexibility when someone's hurt and he doesn't have any other choice but to go with next man up.

    So I have no doubt we'll see too much of Lacy again this week, and far less of Carson now that Rawls is going to play.

    I'm just not a fan of this many RB's. I'm old school give me a primary back and go with him for 80% of the snaps. Continuity and rhythm is not just for an offensive line in the run game, it's for the QB and RB's too.

    How is Russell, the line and ANY RB suppose to get in rhythm and gain some confidence when we're constantly shuttling in Lacy, Prosise, Rawls and now Carson? That doesn't work for me.

    Give Carson the damn ball and everyone else sit the hell down. You stink or you can't stay healthy.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:49 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:The only way our 2 severely under performing offensive coaches get '86'ed is if it comes from the top, Mr. Allen.
    He is a hands off owner which is generally a good thing, but in this case IMHO those terminations are more than warranted and I would love it to happen, but it won't unless something drastic happens as he lets his HC and GM call those shots.


    Paul Allen isn't a meddling owner like Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder.

    He's a delegator, he trusts Pete and John to do the hiring and firing. So no, it's not going to come from Allen if either or Bevell/Cable are fired. If Bevell and Cable are gone from Allen? Then that means he fired Pete.

    So outside of my performance comment, you agree with my post?
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:07 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:The only way our 2 severely under performing offensive coaches get '86'ed is if it comes from the top, Mr. Allen.
    He is a hands off owner which is generally a good thing, but in this case IMHO those terminations are more than warranted and I would love it to happen, but it won't unless something drastic happens as he lets his HC and GM call those shots.


    Paul Allen isn't a meddling owner like Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder.

    He's a delegator, he trusts Pete and John to do the hiring and firing. So no, it's not going to come from Allen if either or Bevell/Cable are fired. If Bevell and Cable are gone from Allen? Then that means he fired Pete.

    So outside of my performance comment, you agree with my post?


    Yeah we both pretty much said the same thing.

    Allen is one of the most brilliant business minds of all time, and like most excellent business owners and leaders he knows the best way to succeed is not to micro-manage, but to hire the best, give them the resources.........and let them do their thing.

    That's exactly what he's done.

    Just disagreed with your first sentence, he'd never force Pete to make any coaching changes. Because he knows Pete knows more about football than he does, and trusts him implicitly. How could Allen not? Pete's one of the most successful coaches in the history of the sport.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:09 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Denver ran the ZBS for years using no names, guys quick and athletic, but the rules were different then, trying to use the same scheme with bigger and not as agile guys and different rules may be one of the issues.


    No names?

    Terrell Davis ran behind future HOF'ers and Pro Bowlers for most of his career when the ZBS was at it's height in Denver.

    Mark Schlereth, Gary Zimmerman (HOF), Tom Nalen (I don't even know how many Pro Bowls, a LOT), etc.

    I don't care what schemes you're running on either side of the ball, talent matters. Our JV line can't even keep guys off Russell for half a second, not sure how we're expecting them to successfully zone block, which takes communication and being synchronized.


    When they went and got them, sure after success they were recognized Alex Gibbs was who Pete wanted here also. Our model is a lot like those teams, Orange Crush defense, Donkey Man at QB costing a fortune, a stable of RB's till someone clicks. Pass Catching TE in Sharp. Very similar.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:19 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Denver ran the ZBS for years using no names, guys quick and athletic, but the rules were different then, trying to use the same scheme with bigger and not as agile guys and different rules may be one of the issues.


    No names?

    Terrell Davis ran behind future HOF'ers and Pro Bowlers for most of his career when the ZBS was at it's height in Denver.

    Mark Schlereth, Gary Zimmerman (HOF), Tom Nalen (I don't even know how many Pro Bowls, a LOT), etc.

    I don't care what schemes you're running on either side of the ball, talent matters. Our JV line can't even keep guys off Russell for half a second, not sure how we're expecting them to successfully zone block, which takes communication and being synchronized.


    When they went and got them, sure after success they were recognized Alex Gibbs was who Pete wanted here also. Our model is a lot like those teams, Orange Crush defense, Donkey Man at QB costing a fortune, a stable of RB's till someone clicks. Pass Catching TE in Sharp. Very similar.



    You know who was a Gibbs disciple?.........................One Mr. Tom Cable.

    That's where Pete and Cable get their love of long athletic linemen from, Gibbs was the first to do that. Get lineman that can really move their feet quickly and get downfield to open up big cutback holes.

    I just wish Pete, John and Cable did a better job of finding the right "athletic" linemen. Preferably ones that basketball isn't their first sport, or played defense last year.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:25 pm
  • Hey, it's not like Bevell/Cable have brought us a Super Bowl or anything.
    I enjoy ruining threads by making them about personal attacks and then commenting about how personal attacks make the other person's argument invalid.

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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:40 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Denver ran the ZBS for years using no names, guys quick and athletic, but the rules were different then, trying to use the same scheme with bigger and not as agile guys and different rules may be one of the issues.


    No names?

    Terrell Davis ran behind future HOF'ers and Pro Bowlers for most of his career when the ZBS was at it's height in Denver.

    Mark Schlereth, Gary Zimmerman (HOF), Tom Nalen (I don't even know how many Pro Bowls, a LOT), etc.

    I don't care what schemes you're running on either side of the ball, talent matters. Our JV line can't even keep guys off Russell for half a second, not sure how we're expecting them to successfully zone block, which takes communication and being synchronized.


    When they went and got them, sure after success they were recognized Alex Gibbs was who Pete wanted here also. Our model is a lot like those teams, Orange Crush defense, Donkey Man at QB costing a fortune, a stable of RB's till someone clicks. Pass Catching TE in Sharp. Very similar.



    You know who was a Gibbs disciple?.........................One Mr. Tom Cable.

    That's where Pete and Cable get their love of long athletic linemen from, Gibbs was the first to do that. Get lineman that can really move their feet quickly and get downfield to open up big cutback holes.

    I just wish Pete, John and Cable did a better job of finding the right "athletic" linemen. Preferably ones that basketball isn't their first sport, or played defense last year.


    Yes I know Gibbs was who was the guy Cable is attempting to emulate, again the rules are different and the Dirtiest Line in the game caused the rules to be changed and then again recently about crack back blocks, Cable said he didn't think it would matter, I think a lot of these changes do because it takes away a aspect of what your doing and homogenizing things across the board of what's allowed.

    Also you have to look at the difference in Gibbs and Cable and what they see in evaluation, Belichek and Carroll evaluate as well but there is a big difference in what they bring into camp I would say Gibbs had a knack for seeing something he may not have put in words that Cable doesn't, much like great GM's versus other guys, put aside the common known information and the intangibles are what's left, some people have a feel for that stuff and hit homes runs more then others.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:50 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Also you have to look at the difference in Gibbs and Cable and what they see in evaluation, Belichek and Carroll evaluate as well but there is a big difference in what they bring into camp I would say Gibbs had a knack for seeing something he may not have put in words that Cable doesn't, much like great GM's versus other guys, put aside the common known information and the intangibles are what's left, some people have a feel for that stuff and hit homes runs more then others.


    You're also comparing Cable to arguably the greatest O-line innovator in NFL history.

    Also remember that with every football innovation, the first ones to do it have an advantage for a long period of time before everyone else catches up. Cable doesn't have that luxury, teams know how to defend the ZBS, so you have to execute, which IMO has been our problem.

    Hell everyone thought Chip Kelly was a genius, and then everyone caught up and now he's on the unemployment line.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:32 pm
  • So, I just looked up bevel's season records as OC since he started with the viqueens in 2006. The only really good seasons he's had were 2009 (12-4), and 2012 - 2014 (11-5, 13-3, and 12-4 respectively). In 2009 he got Favre for his first of 2 years in Minne. Since that was Favre's first year in bevel's system, you can bet he didn't know it well or follow it very closely. The next year the record (still with Favre, but with another year under bevel's offense) the record was 6-10. First year in Seattle, with T-Jack (who knew the system from being the starter in Minne in 2007 when he went 8-8), the record was 7-9. Then a miracle occurred and we got RW... But since he's come to know and fully understand bevel's system (per words from PC's mouth) the record has been going steadily downhill. 2015, 10-6. 2016, 10-5-1. This year? Who knows yet? I'm not expecting 12 wins, that's for sure!

    Now who wants to tell me again about what a frickin' genius bevel is? I don't know how to play piano, but if I was watching somebody on stage randomly pounding keys I would certainly recognize that I was not watching a genius musician... No, bevel and cable didn't bring us a Lombardi trophy. That despite them, NOT because of them.
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:33 pm
  • seabowl wrote:I know this may be a little crazy but does anyone think that fans (us) would ever consider doing some form of a protest of the ineptitude of Bevell/Cable etc... Whether it's banners at the game or as they did once in NY fly a plane over Jets practice with a banner saying "Fire Idzik". I don't know about anyone else here but I'm fed up with what has gone on with the offensive ineptness with Bevell/Cable and the line the last few years.

    Anyone else in because....

    I'm in!!!!


    And Seahawk fans wonder why other fan bases hate them.

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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:35 pm
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    seabowl wrote:I know this may be a little crazy but does anyone think that fans (us) would ever consider doing some form of a protest of the ineptitude of Bevell/Cable etc... Whether it's banners at the game or as they did once in NY fly a plane over Jets practice with a banner saying "Fire Idzik". I don't know about anyone else here but I'm fed up with what has gone on with the offensive ineptness with Bevell/Cable and the line the last few years.

    Anyone else in because....

    I'm in!!!!


    And Seahawk fans wonder why other fan bases hate them.

    :34853_doh:


    They hate us because we aren't them? Because we're passive towards our FO when other fans aren't?
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:39 pm
  • mrt144 wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    seabowl wrote:I know this may be a little crazy but does anyone think that fans (us) would ever consider doing some form of a protest of the ineptitude of Bevell/Cable etc... Whether it's banners at the game or as they did once in NY fly a plane over Jets practice with a banner saying "Fire Idzik". I don't know about anyone else here but I'm fed up with what has gone on with the offensive ineptness with Bevell/Cable and the line the last few years.

    Anyone else in because....

    I'm in!!!!


    And Seahawk fans wonder why other fan bases hate them.

    :34853_doh:


    They hate us because we aren't them? Because we're passive towards our FO when other fans aren't?


    Or because we contemplate protesting the OC/OL coach, days after boasting how we were going to go into Lambeau and handle them with ease.

    Pro Tip: If Bevell survived the back lash post SB49.. a little protest won't do anything.

    But have fun?
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Re: Time to protest Bevell/Cable!!!!!
Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:39 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:

    You know who was a Gibbs disciple?.........................One Mr. Tom Cable.




    Incorrect. Tom Cabel only worked with Gibbs once in 2006. Then he was fired.
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