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The end is nigh...

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The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:35 pm
  • I believe the ball is now in motion for a significant shakeup of our offensive coaching structure. What we saw on Sunday appears to be the continuation of the downward spiral that has been this offense for several years running now. Last season this offense failed to score an offensive touchdown in 4 games I can think of. I expect that number to be met or surpassed this season.

    We were beat BADLY up front on a few occasions last year (Rams, Bucs) in which rushers were just running through the Oline throughout the game. After a full offseason to improve, that's what happened again yesterday. The danger comes if these types of games continue. The way this is shaping up, I think we're in for quite a few of these types of games this year. And the noise is just gonna become too much....

    The offensive football we may have headed our way could be so egregious that noise noise generated by the football world will force the hand of the powers at be. We are gonna have pissed 12's, bewildered local media, and lecturing national media bearing down on this franchise. And the Seahawks will have nothing to say for themselves.

    Does this mean Cable is fired? Bevell? Both? Hard to say but some people are gonna be on their way out and it's gonna be happening soon.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:36 pm
  • Not likely.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:41 pm
  • I had the same dream. Then I woke up.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:47 pm
  • OpHawk wrote:I believe the ball is now in motion for a significant shakeup of our offensive coaching structure. What we saw on Sunday appears to be the continuation of the downward spiral that has been this offense for several years running now. Last season this offense failed to score an offensive touchdown in 4 games I can think of. I expect that number to be met or surpassed this season.

    We were beat BADLY up front on a few occasions last year (Rams, Bucs) in which rushers were just running through the Oline throughout the game. After a full offseason to improve, that's what happened again yesterday. The danger comes if these types of games continue. The way this is shaping up, I think we're in for quite a few of these types of games this year. And the noise is just gonna become too much....

    The offensive football we may have headed our way could be so egregious that noise noise generated by the football world will force the hand of the powers at be. We are gonna have pissed 12's, bewildered local media, and lecturing national media bearing down on this franchise. And the Seahawks will have nothing to say for themselves.

    Does this mean Cable is fired? Bevell? Both? Hard to say but some people are gonna be on their way out and it's gonna be happening soon.


    I'll play. What makes you so convinced this IS going to happen?
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:48 pm
  • I know it seems far fetched and perhaps it is. But picture what we saw in GB yesterday, two more times before the BYE in week 6. Say @ Tenn and @ LA. Picture Russ getting clobbered on every dropback. Picture Russ injured? You don't think if 3 of our first 5 games looked like yesterday there wouldn't be serious questions as to whether the people responsible are gonna have to pay the piper?
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:52 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    OpHawk wrote:I believe the ball is now in motion for a significant shakeup of our offensive coaching structure. What we saw on Sunday appears to be the continuation of the downward spiral that has been this offense for several years running now. Last season this offense failed to score an offensive touchdown in 4 games I can think of. I expect that number to be met or surpassed this season.

    We were beat BADLY up front on a few occasions last year (Rams, Bucs) in which rushers were just running through the Oline throughout the game. After a full offseason to improve, that's what happened again yesterday. The danger comes if these types of games continue. The way this is shaping up, I think we're in for quite a few of these types of games this year. And the noise is just gonna become too much....

    The offensive football we may have headed our way could be so egregious that noise noise generated by the football world will force the hand of the powers at be. We are gonna have pissed 12's, bewildered local media, and lecturing national media bearing down on this franchise. And the Seahawks will have nothing to say for themselves.

    Does this mean Cable is fired? Bevell? Both? Hard to say but some people are gonna be on their way out and it's gonna be happening soon.


    I'll play. What makes you so convinced this IS going to happen?


    I would not say I am convinced. I am not convinced I'm gonna wake up in the morning. The trend, however, leads me to believe this is where we are headed.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:57 pm
  • This is not happening. It didn't happen after 49 and it is not happening now. We will ride out the wave with PC and crew over the next few years and the rebuild (hopefully) with the new regime. If the Rams get their act together they may take over the division next year.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:59 pm
  • The only way a shakeup occurs under Pete, is if one of them land a HC job somewhere else. At this rate we might be stuck with them until' Pete retires.

    If they name Cable HC when Pete leaves Im going to boycott the team. :irishdrinkers:
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:04 pm
  • OpHawk wrote:I believe the ball is now in motion for a significant shakeup of our offensive coaching structure. What we saw on Sunday appears to be the continuation of the downward spiral that has been this offense for several years running now. Last season this offense failed to score an offensive touchdown in 4 games I can think of. I expect that number to be met or surpassed this season.

    We were beat BADLY up front on a few occasions last year (Rams, Bucs) in which rushers were just running through the Oline throughout the game. After a full offseason to improve, that's what happened again yesterday. The danger comes if these types of games continue. The way this is shaping up, I think we're in for quite a few of these types of games this year. And the noise is just gonna become too much....

    The offensive football we may have headed our way could be so egregious that noise noise generated by the football world will force the hand of the powers at be. We are gonna have pissed 12's, bewildered local media, and lecturing national media bearing down on this franchise. And the Seahawks will have nothing to say for themselves.

    Does this mean Cable is fired? Bevell? Both? Hard to say but some people are gonna be on their way out and it's gonna be happening soon.

    Wishful thinking.
    ....but I'm right there with you.

    Not likely to happen in season however, as much as I wanted it to happen 2 years ago.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:09 pm
  • NJlargent wrote:This is not happening. It didn't happen after 49 and it is not happening now. We will ride out the wave with PC and crew over the next few years and the rebuild (hopefully) with the new regime. If the Rams get their act together they may take over the division next year.

    Sadly you are probably right. Stuck with an underachieving and underperforming offensive coaching staff as long as Pete is here, unless their actions at the team holiday party piss off Paul Allen (see Jeremy Bates).
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:11 pm
  • Believe me, I've wished this to happen since 2014 but never thought it was a possibility, until now.

    I'm tellin you guys, a couple more games that look like yesterday, and it's all anyone is gonna be talking about. The noise will be too much.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:22 pm
  • OpHawk wrote:Believe me, I've wished this to happen since 2014 but never thought it was a possibility, until now.

    I'm tellin you guys, a couple more games that look like yesterday, and it's all anyone is gonna be talking about. The noise will be too much.



    If we have too many more games this year like yesterday, Russ will be hurt and the season will be on life support anyways.

    Pete is loyal to his guys, sometimes even to a fault.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:25 pm
  • Will believe it when I see it. I would rather Cable go before Bevell if I had to pick between the two.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:29 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    NJlargent wrote:This is not happening. It didn't happen after 49 and it is not happening now. We will ride out the wave with PC and crew over the next few years and the rebuild (hopefully) with the new regime. If the Rams get their act together they may take over the division next year.

    Sadly you are probably right. Stuck with an underachieving and underperforming offensive coaching staff as long as Pete is here, unless their actions at the team holiday party piss off Paul Allen (see Jeremy Bates).


    It is a sore subject with me. I was in the camp that immediately wanted Bevell gone the day after 49. It didn't happen and then Lynch gives the finger, Baldwin too and the sherm blowup. Someone needed to go solely to protect the chemistry. Any moron could have won with Lynch and our defense (although Bevell gives our opponents a punchers chance).

    Yesterday just sucked. The worst part was watching Lynch look good and run hard. He's happy now. He's on a well coached team that is on the way up and not on one spiraling downward.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:32 pm
  • Only if Wilson gets injured again.

    If we lose Wilson, especially for the season, that would be 2 years we squandered an opportunity with Wilson because of a terrible OL and terrible offensive scheme.

    THAT might force the owner's hands and demand a change.

    Nothing else will.

    Hard to root for an injury, especially for a guy that regardless of his flaws helped bring Seattle the first SB victory. I cannot do it.

    But that is the only thing that would lead to that kind of change that is needed.

    However, given the recent line play - it isn't entirely unlikely. I don't expect Wilson to last the year under this kind of 'protection'.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:35 pm
  • Where's the great defender of Bevell?

    Maybe he watched the game again. Maybe he saw how little adjustment was made when things weren't working and realizes the O was simply awful yesterday.

    Since 2013 the OLine has sucked, early picks or no early picks. There is a problem and there never seems to be an answer.

    If the offensive coaching staff can't sort this mess out quickly this season they don't deserve to stay.

    Not willing to throws in the towel after one game but that was a sad sack show yesterday as the O onceagainlet the D hang.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:40 pm
  • Yeah, that was a real bad game for the offense. But, it's also week 1.

    If this team goes 6-10 or something like that you'll see some major moves. But the reality is we've just struck out on our longshot OL gambles. We've tried to keep our D intact and the side effect is taking chances on the OL.

    This team was built to keep the points low and pray for scoring.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:40 pm
  • The team plays well this coming Sunday....and this will all simmer down......to continue boiling underneath the surface.

    This Offense has a cancer.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:41 pm
  • God damn what a depressing reality. Just think, if we were to chitcan Bevell and Cable tonight, by the time the new offense got rolling with an adequate Olne, the defense would likely need retooling and our window closed. We wasted a once in a generation defense.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:58 am
  • Sadly, nobodys going anywhere. Instead we'll continue to squander this opportunity of a talented roster and lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs as usual just to go into next season being fooled into thinking changes will be made to the Oline and offensive philosophy when in truth it will just be the same old continuation from the previous year. I'm not fooled anymore. I realize where this team is headed and its a bummer.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:30 am
  • pittpnthrs wrote:Sadly, nobodys going anywhere. Instead we'll continue to squander this opportunity of a talented roster and lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs as usual just to go into next season being fooled into thinking changes will be made to the Oline and offensive philosophy when in truth it will just be the same old continuation from the previous year. I'm not fooled anymore. I realize where this team is headed and its a bummer.

    Welcome to the world of having NFL success and then watching your roster and coaches get poached by other teams... This is what I tried telling you guys was going to happen a few years back when you kept telling me my team was "soft"
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:39 am
  • It's not happening for the same reason he gave in January -- some fans just don't know what they're talking about. No further example is needed than this knee-jerk post.

    Look, I have history on my side when it comes to detailing how our offense morphs from uninspiring to dazzling, usually in conjunction with a 6 or 7 game winning streak that sets the Hawks up for the playoffs. Book it, it will happen again this season.

    Our coaching staff is one of the finest in the NFL. They find solutions by working together. The suggestion of the OP is one that a loser or a modern day never-were would use. Teams like Cleveland and Washington come to mind. That's not us ... and for good reason.

    I also get that a lot of you get easily frustrated and are grasping for answers. The easy and less-complicated target is the coach. That kind of projection has happened for years. Look at New England's fanbase now. Many have gone on social media and called for the firing of Josh McDaniels. That's insane. But it's happening. And that's my correlation here.

    I always say that the job of a coach is to put players in the most advantageous position to succeed and win. So for a staff that's produced wins about 70 percent of the time over the last 5 years, I have to say they're doing their jobs and doing it well. One season-opening game on the road does not tarnish that. The philosophy and on-field results will once again meld for a long and productive stanza, we'll hit another rare underachieving blip of a game or two like all teams, even the successful ones, go through and there will inevitably be another reactionary post like this one calling for dismissals. It goes with the territory and it's been happening for years.

    Thankfully, those running the organization have a term for it: Outside Noise. And that label doesn't arise from arrogance, rather it's just counterproductive to their mission, which is to win football games.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:33 am
  • This is 100% not a knee jerk reaction. Everyone has been watching the o-line deteriorate, with the same story year in and out. We were told they learned their lesson up front but they obviously didn't. Then on top of that, after a full offseason to scheme some sort of offense around the sorry line, what do they do? Roll out the same garbage playcalls, actually may have been worse. Greenbay went all in on the hand we always show.

    Everyone is so reactionary bacause we all held our breath and hoped they finally started to fix that disaster.

    I'm sorry but the same OC, line coach, head coach, QB combo for 5 years and they can't figure out how to move the chains?
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:37 am
  • ptisme wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Sadly, nobodys going anywhere. Instead we'll continue to squander this opportunity of a talented roster and lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs as usual just to go into next season being fooled into thinking changes will be made to the Oline and offensive philosophy when in truth it will just be the same old continuation from the previous year. I'm not fooled anymore. I realize where this team is headed and its a bummer.

    Welcome to the world of having NFL success and then watching your roster and coaches get poached by other teams... This is what I tried telling you guys was going to happen a few years back when you kept telling me my team was "soft"


    The problem is that the offensive-side coaches AREN'T getting poached. That's why we're stuck in hell with them.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:38 am
  • They've figured it out for the past 5 years. One season opener doesn't equate to that.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:40 am
  • The time for offensive coaching changes has come and gone this season. Carroll is too stubborn/loyal/blind to part ways with either Bevell or Cable unfortunately. Hell, he refuses to wear sunglasses during the game! Why?!

    And, to be honest, making a coaching change after the season starts would be counterintuitive. If they were going to make a change, it needed to be last February. We'll just have to wait until after the season ends to have a hope this dream will come true.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:55 am
  • The issues remain the same season after season after season. I don't disagree that the collective coaching staff is very good. In fact they all have their moments of real excellence. They are however slow starters.

    There is still a disturbing inability to adjust quickly to adversity. The adjustments used to be quicker. There is this stubborn desire to to do things the personnel simply are incapable of doing. Against the Packers the O was awful with 5 three and outs.
    One of course involved the extra bonus of a Wilson fumble deep in our end. There were 3 other series that were very short. All the time the O called involved deeper pass plays that the OLine was incapable protecting Wilson long enough to develop.

    The O isn't allowing the D any rest and forced them to play 2/3 of the game. This has become a worsening problem and is reflective of a need for some real change. I'm sure the staff will try to change up, but the weak sauce served up on Sunday was reflective of a worsening problem with no seeming ability to adjust.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:59 am
  • GeekHawk wrote:
    ptisme wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Sadly, nobodys going anywhere. Instead we'll continue to squander this opportunity of a talented roster and lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs as usual just to go into next season being fooled into thinking changes will be made to the Oline and offensive philosophy when in truth it will just be the same old continuation from the previous year. I'm not fooled anymore. I realize where this team is headed and its a bummer.

    Welcome to the world of having NFL success and then watching your roster and coaches get poached by other teams... This is what I tried telling you guys was going to happen a few years back when you kept telling me my team was "soft"


    The problem is that the offensive-side coaches AREN'T getting poached. That's why we're stuck in hell with them.

    Well it hurt when you lost Quinn and Beast for various reasons... As I recall you traded some good offensive linemen too.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:12 am
  • If Pete did can Cable and/or Bevell, who would assume those position(s) that would be better than we have? To make a change now is conceding the season. Maybe in the off season it happens, but I whole heartedly believe nobody walks until Pete walks.


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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:16 am
  • Bevell isn't the one generating the low-scoring, run-first, hope-for-a-big-play-at-the-end-when-everyone-is-gassed mentality. That's Pete. It's always been Pete. It's been his attitude throughout his NFL career. In college he could run up the score because he rocked at recruiting, but here, he's been conservative and run-first.

    I could tell right away vs the Packers, once I saw Wilson holding onto the ball looking for deep shots, that Pete was once again giving in to his instincts and going for the chunk play. Same as in Tampa '16. We'd been doing great, beat the Patriots, beat the Eagles, nobody was griping about the OL because Pete was running the quick-play scheme that masked their deficiencies. Then, in Tampa, Pete gave in again. Went back to lusting for the chunk play. And WITHIN ONE QUARTER vs Tampa, our offense was once again a disaster.

    It was one of the most mind-boggling decisions of Pete's career last Tampa game, especially given the fact that they'd lost Britt to injury (or perhaps that's why they did it). Pete knows Wilson can win with the quick passing scheme, but he refuses to stick to it because he wants to be run-first. I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to say that it's simply his pride, and it's hurting the team.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:22 am
  • KPA wrote:If Pete did can Cable and/or Bevell, who would assume those position(s) that would be better than we have? To make a change now is conceding the season. Maybe in the off season it happens, but I whole heartedly believe nobody walks until Pete walks.


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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:24 am
  • KPA wrote:If Pete did can Cable and/or Bevell, who would assume those position(s) that would be better than we have? To make a change now is conceding the season. Maybe in the off season it happens, but I whole heartedly believe nobody walks until Pete walks.


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    That may well be part of the problem.

    Here is who may end up with that position.

    http://www.seahawks.com/team/coaches/roster/brennan-carroll-0
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:36 am
  • The problem is that we are playing the 49ers this week

    So we score a bunch of points on a horrible team and people will say - see it is all fixed and ignore that we are losing to elite teams and beating crap
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:39 am
  • mikeak wrote:The problem is that we are playing the 49ers this week

    So we score a bunch of points on a horrible team and people will say - see it is all fixed and ignore that we are losing to elite teams and beating crap

    This is typical of the rotting culture of some of this fanbase -- actually describing a win as a negative attribute.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:40 am
  • 2012: #17
    2013: #18
    2014: #9
    2015: #4
    2016: #12

    These are the offensive rankings for total offense for the Hawks since 2012, and IMO we would have again been a top 10 offense last year if not for Russell getting hurt.

    So are we spoiled? Do we expect more from an offense that has the worst line in the league and only has 40% of the cap space committed to the offensive side of the ball?

    Idk, my opinion is this is Pete's team, so even if you replace Bevell and Cable the new coordinators would still have to work within the confines of Pete's physical ball control run first style of offense. So my guess is you guys wouldn't even notice a difference with different coordinators.

    So I hate to say it, if you want to see a different offense, then what you're REALLY saying is you want a new head coach.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:54 am
  • Trust me I'm not the biggest Bevell guy, but Pete controls all of this.

    Pete's the one that stubbornly sticks to a ball control offense that moves slowly. If Bevell wanted to change it up, I'm not sure he would. Granted I didn't see a lot of the game (i saw a bit in a bar while waiting for food in between salmon fishing), there were things that we can't blame on Bevell: Graham dropping a key 3rd down pass, Wilson forcing an incompletion to McEvoy when Lacy was wide open in the flat, poor blocking by the OL (can't game plan for or against that), missed assignments by the OL, Wilson fumbling the ball. That's not on the OC or play calling.

    Now there was some play calling issues. I've read that we didn't try any read option stuff. That's a mistake. Also, no real quick or intermediate passes early in the game when pass protection was at it's worst. What's wrong with calling quick pass plays right off the bat and letting the OL get some tempo and rhythm against a fresh defense ? Nope, we go all run heavy and PA pass. Pathetic.

    The one thing I'm going to call out is Cable's ability to scout OL. I'm assuming Pete and John rely heavily on Cable either telling them what they need, or input on specific prospects. He's missing way too much at the higher draft picks. Granted, he's not getting a lot of draft capital to work with, but the stuff he's getting we're whiffing on and I think he's a big part of that.

    Also, we keep having communications issues with inexperienced OL. Why can't we keep it simple at first, then work them into it ?
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:55 am
  • Siouxhawk wrote:
    mikeak wrote:The problem is that we are playing the 49ers this week

    So we score a bunch of points on a horrible team and people will say - see it is all fixed and ignore that we are losing to elite teams and beating crap

    This is typical of the rotting culture of some of this fanbase -- actually describing a win as a negative attribute.


    The definition of a troll is taking something someone says and twisting it around and putting words in their mouth

    Did I say it was bad that we win?

    Of course I want the win. What I am saying and which would be understood by most objective observers is that a good offensive performance against a bad team mainly serves to mask our problems. That is very different from a win in itself being a negative attribute. If we can kickstart the offense and keep it going against better defensive teams great, but the Rams and Jacksonville is going to crush this "offense".

    Was listening on the radio today and they discussed playing Watson over Savage for Houston. Talked about how they can move Watson around and how he can compensate for a bad O-line. Hopefully Bevell was listening
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:58 am
  • Siouxhawk wrote:They've figured it out for the past 5 years. One season opener doesn't equate to that.


    They didn't figure crap out last season. What season were you watching?

    12 points against Miami at home, taking a last minute TD to pull it out. 3 points against Los Angeles. 6 points against Arizona, including a full overtime period. 13 points against New Orleans (we got 7 from the defense), a historically bad defense. 5 points against Tampa Bay. 10 points against Green Bay, including a 5-pick treat from Wilson.

    That's 8.1 ppg in 6 of our 16 games. Beyond unacceptable. A borderline competent NFL offense averages twice that.

    Right back to the same problem in the first game this season. They absolutely suck in the red zone, so the rare chances they do get usually end up in field goals.

    There are a stack of problems on this offense. No, it is not ALL on Bevell, nor Cable. The line is bad. They have no idea how to use Graham, who is eating up $10 million of our cap. They want to be a run dominant team but don't have the personnel to do that. Our top-3 receivers are smallish/quick guys, but we don't utilize their talents in game design. Bevell seems to not have pages in his playbook for screens, angle routes, etc. He calls plays with 7-step drops behind the NFL's worst NFL line - which makes no sense.

    They are wasting the prime years of Wilson's career.

    Speaking of Wilson, he isn't beyond some criticism... it is his 6th full season with tons of big game experience, and he should be hitting throws like that one he missed to Lockett. I personally worry about his commitment to being a top-flight quarterback, as he is building his business empire and legacy (and that's ok, it happens to all the big stars). I don't blame him fully for being skittish and indecisive - any other QB in the league would die behind this line. I get it. But, I think he needs to improve some basics (reading defenses, audibles, adjusting protections).

    Do we want a Super Bowl caliber team, or a team that wins a bad division every year by default?

    I don't see how things are going to magically get better. There are defenses on our schedule this year that are going to kick tails sideways (Tennessee, Los Angeles twice, New York Giants, Houston, Philly, Jacksonville).
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:59 am
  • Siouxhawk wrote:
    mikeak wrote:The problem is that we are playing the 49ers this week

    So we score a bunch of points on a horrible team and people will say - see it is all fixed and ignore that we are losing to elite teams and beating crap

    This is typical of the rotting culture of some of this fanbase -- actually describing a win as a negative attribute.


    Truth.

    This team made a choice to emphasize keeping all of the Pro Bowl level Defenders at the expense of the Offense, specifically the O-line. That's what happens in this league: decisions must be made, cannot keep everyone.

    Now in hindsight, would we have been a better team overall the past few years if, say, we let KJ and Kam walk and invested that money into the O-line? I think that's likely. But Pete is a Defensive coach, so cobbling together an O-line from castoffs and cheap drafted players is what has to be done. That means the O is going to suck at the beginning of every year until they get time to gel! Happens EVERY YEAR!

    I just cannot understand how many people in this forum expected a loss against GB, they know our slow starts to the SEASON and the Offense is not going to be up to speed, and yet the amount of crying and bitching in here only gets worse.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:00 am
  • Sweet Jesus, every time we lose a game, the team is done. :?
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:05 am
  • mikeak wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:
    mikeak wrote:The problem is that we are playing the 49ers this week

    So we score a bunch of points on a horrible team and people will say - see it is all fixed and ignore that we are losing to elite teams and beating crap

    This is typical of the rotting culture of some of this fanbase -- actually describing a win as a negative attribute.


    The definition of a troll is taking something someone says and twisting it around and putting words in their mouth

    Did I say it was bad that we win?

    Of course I want the win. What I am saying and which would be understood by most objective observers is that a good offensive performance against a bad team mainly serves to mask our problems. That is very different from a win in itself being a negative attribute. If we can kickstart the offense and keep it going against better defensive teams great, but the Rams and Jacksonville is going to crush this "offense".

    Was listening on the radio today and they discussed playing Watson over Savage for Houston. Talked about how they can move Watson around and how he can compensate for a bad O-line. Hopefully Bevell was listening

    First of all, I don't believe any NFL games are pushovers and each win should be celebrated accordingly because they are precious.

    So saying a win over the Niners masks perceived flaws is something I don't buy because obviously some of those flaws would be corrected in ascertaining the "W."

    And your point about a win being able to kickstart the offense dovetails with what I said earlier. And history supports it. We have been in this position before and been able to rectify the problems and go on to have a great season. And making the playoffs is a "great season." This is off the subject stated to you, but once you get into the playoffs, it's a brand new season and anything can happen. We've made the Super Bowl twice in the last 4 years, so obviously the parties in charge know what they're doing.
    Last edited by Siouxhawk on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:08 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:2012: #17
    2013: #18
    2014: #9
    2015: #4
    2016: #12

    These are the offensive rankings for total offense for the Hawks since 2012, and IMO we would have again been a top 10 offense last year if not for Russell getting hurt.


    I believe you are looking at total yards which is influenced by many factors not telling the full story.

    If you look at something like Drive Success Rate which measures the percentage of series that gets a first down or a touchdown then we were ranked 21st last year.

    For a team that is all about ball control and moving the chains and tiring out the opponent and not going hurry-up we were ranked 21st in getting a 1st down or a touchdown. Think about it. Our whole philosophy is focused on something that we rank 21 out of 32 teams for...........

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ ... atsoff2016

    Time of possession per drive -- 2.39 minutes ranked 22nd!!!!

    Plays per drive - 22nd

    So if we played ball control football and it was boring but efficient - fine but we are completely failing to run the offense the way we claim that we want to run it. We are not getting any of the results out that we have built this whole team on. So then maybe we need to figure out if we should play differently.......
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:10 am
  • FlyingGreg wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:They've figured it out for the past 5 years. One season opener doesn't equate to that.


    They didn't figure crap out last season. What season were you watching?.


    10-6 with a broken Russell for the entire season, and making it all the way to the divisional round of the playoffs.........I'd say we figured it out pretty well.

    Especially considering the defense was busy yelling at coordinators and giving up leads with no Earl for half the year.

    I get that our offense stunk Sunday, we're all frustrated cause we expected more.

    But the end is nigh? After ONE game against probably the best team besides us in the entire NFC, at their house at full strength?

    O-line has me bummed out, but I was encouraged from what I saw from every other aspect of the team. No reason we can't go 12-4 and compete for HFA if we stay healthy.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:16 am
  • Siouxhawk wrote:So saying a win over the Niners masks perceived flaws is something I don't buy because obviously some of those flaws would be corrected in ascertaining the "W."
    .


    AGAIN - I didn't say this

    I said a good offensive performance (which does not equal a win or a loss) masks perceived flaws

    I said the same before GB - I don't actually care as much about the W / L - I care how we play. I remain consistent. The Win or Loss is not always indicative of if a team is moving in the right direction. How they play together is what tells that story.

    If you watched Sunday's game and think the offense has moved forward from last season then we watch football completely differently
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:19 am
  • mikeak wrote:
    So if we played ball control football and it was boring but efficient - fine but we are completely failing to run the offense the way we claim that we want to run it. We are not getting any of the results out that we have built this whole team on. So then maybe we need to figure out if we should play differently.......


    And you think our drop to #22 in this stat was a coordinator issue last year, and not because Russell was operating at 50-70% the entire year.........and our ENTIRE offensive scheme is based off of him being mobile?

    I don't absolve any coordinator, player or HC when we fail, everyone's up for criticism. But this constant beating of the drum for Bevell and Cable's head when we lose got old about three years ago. It's a group effort my friend, it's a group effort.

    New coordinators wasn't going to mend Russell to 100% or fix another year of the worst O-line in the league cause our FO can't figure out how to draft and acquire FA lineman.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:21 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    FlyingGreg wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:They've figured it out for the past 5 years. One season opener doesn't equate to that.


    They didn't figure crap out last season. What season were you watching?.


    10-6 with a broken Russell for the entire season, and making it all the way to the divisional round of the playoffs.........I'd say we figured it out pretty well.

    Especially considering the defense was busy yelling at coordinators and giving up leads with no Earl for half the year.

    I get that our offense stunk Sunday, we're all frustrated cause we expected more.

    But the end is nigh? After ONE game against probably the best team besides us in the entire NFC, at their house at full strength?

    O-line has me bummed out, but I was encouraged from what I saw from every other aspect of the team. No reason we can't go 12-4 and compete for HFA if we stay healthy.


    You just validated my question. Getting our doors blown off in consecutive playoff appearances is "figuring it out" for you. It isn't for me.

    You glossed over the metrics I provided. 8.1 ppg in 6 of 16 games. Unbelievable inept, excuses notwithstanding.

    I am not at all upset we lost in Green Bay. It is arguably the hardest place in the league to win, against one of the NFL's all-time great passers. I am upset that the SAME ugly trend of a spinning-wheels offense and a line that can't block to save their lives is still prevalent. And that wasn't an NFL elite defense we played; they are ok, but every other team that plays the Packers moves the ball and scores points on them.

    By the way, the pick-6 and the Graham mugging non-call absolutely change the dimension of that game and we could have had a great shot to win. I get that. But again, we had some chances. All drives stalled and we settled for field goals. And Russ HAS to hit that throw to Lockett. HAS TO. He is a franchise quarterback in his 6th NFL season and Lock was wide open. That worries me, because he did that a lot last season. Again, I don't blame him exclusively - I honestly have no idea how he gets ready to play week in and week out knowing he is going to have defenders in his face mask .5 seconds after every snap.

    Can you imagine what is going to happen when we play some of the D lines we have looming on our schedule?

    Looking closely at the deficiencies, many of them are not easily fixable. That's the concern.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:23 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    mikeak wrote:
    So if we played ball control football and it was boring but efficient - fine but we are completely failing to run the offense the way we claim that we want to run it. We are not getting any of the results out that we have built this whole team on. So then maybe we need to figure out if we should play differently.......


    And you think our drop to #22 in this stat was a coordinator issue last year, and not because Russell was operating at 50-70% the entire year.........and our ENTIRE offensive scheme is based off of him being mobile?

    I don't absolve any coordinator, player or HC when we fail, everyone's up for criticism. But this constant beating of the drum for Bevell and Cable's head when we lose got old about three years ago. It's a group effort my friend, it's a group effort.

    New coordinators wasn't going to mend Russell to 100% or fix another year of the worst O-line in the league cause our FO can't figure out how to draft and acquire FA lineman.


    You are right - the OP premise is shakeup of the offense and I agree this is a group issue

    I do continue to believe that while our O-line is horrible we are continuously failing to adjust to make them look slightly better. We are simply not doing the things you should do when you have a bad o-line. If that is Bevell or PC - I don't know, but at the end of the day PC is responsible

    Sure RW not being mobile was part of the picture last year, but again watch that first game against GB and we sure hadn't changed anything....... he really has two big runs and they don't look scripted and at least one happened during a hurry-up that we have been clearly told is not how we will play football
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:34 am
  • mikeak wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:So saying a win over the Niners masks perceived flaws is something I don't buy because obviously some of those flaws would be corrected in ascertaining the "W."
    .


    AGAIN - I didn't say this

    I said a good offensive performance (which does not equal a win or a loss) masks perceived flaws

    I said the same before GB - I don't actually care as much about the W / L - I care how we play. I remain consistent. The Win or Loss is not always indicative of if a team is moving in the right direction. How they play together is what tells that story.

    If you watched Sunday's game and think the offense has moved forward from last season then we watch football completely differently

    Of course I'm not happy with Sunday's performance, although there were definitely some positive things being done too, even on offense. I guess my grounds are that it's not time to panic like many are. We have the ingenuity and talent to correct things as we have in the past. I just look at the big picture. Figured we'd lose 4 on the year and the Packers game is likely one of the toughest scenarios we'll be in during the regular season. Hopefully -- and I'm optimistic -- our offensive line generates some cohesiveness and consistency against the Niners to get a head of steam going and we parlay that into what you're looking for and that's a high level of play week in and week out.
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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:49 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Bevell isn't the one generating the low-scoring, run-first, hope-for-a-big-play-at-the-end-when-everyone-is-gassed mentality. That's Pete. It's always been Pete. It's been his attitude throughout his NFL career. In college he could run up the score because he rocked at recruiting, but here, he's been conservative and run-first.

    I could tell right away vs the Packers, once I saw Wilson holding onto the ball looking for deep shots, that Pete was once again giving in to his instincts and going for the chunk play. Same as in Tampa '16. We'd been doing great, beat the Patriots, beat the Eagles, nobody was griping about the OL because Pete was running the quick-play scheme that masked their deficiencies. Then, in Tampa, Pete gave in again. Went back to lusting for the chunk play. And WITHIN ONE QUARTER vs Tampa, our offense was once again a disaster.

    It was one of the most mind-boggling decisions of Pete's career last Tampa game, especially given the fact that they'd lost Britt to injury (or perhaps that's why they did it). Pete knows Wilson can win with the quick passing scheme, but he refuses to stick to it because he wants to be run-first. I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to say that it's simply his pride, and it's hurting the team.


    Starting the GB game with 3 passes was an odd choice and I agree with much of what you say here. Not certain Pete's looking for chunk plays, but there were plenty of times last Sunday when RW escaped pressure and appeared to have no one to throw to. Was that RW's fault, Bevell's, Pete's or some combo? I don't know. Instead of a coaching change I'd like to see the coaches change what they do. I hope they adjust and go with a quick passing game in combo with the run game.
    Russell has some stats that aren't Superb? Ow! Love his balls anyways!

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Re: The end is nigh...
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:59 am
  • Pete will never change because of what happened in SB 49, he should have run the ball which is his mantra and he didn't.

    It won't matter what happens or whats best for the team, he won't let his pride be hurt like that again.

    BTW, you can have an uptempo offense and still have a good amount of run plays.
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