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Why not blame Russell Wilson

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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:01 pm
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:Because he had .7 seconds.

    On run plays the Dline was meeting RW and the RBs at handoff.

    Wenhawk wrote: He was pressured a bit .


    LOL


    I call BS. Rodgers was pressured more than Russ difference is more than half the time the ball was out of his hands almost instantly.


    What game were you watching where Rogers was pressured more than Russ? Russ had denfenders in his lap before he could even make a read
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:04 pm


  • I'm sure people have seen this, but this can't happen. Maybe this is an extreme example, but I think it's closer to this way more often than can happen to have any great success.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:22 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    JTB wrote:
    Biscanebay12 wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:Wilson hasn't been the same QB since he started trying to be a drop back passer.

    He's gone away from what makes the offense as effective as it used to be. Those read zone plays, where he actually ran the ball.. bootlegs.

    I still think he's too short for those quick slants and outs as he just can't find the targets fast enough through those huge linemen.

    He needs to start do what he used to do until he can't do it no more, it's his game and that won't change.


    He hasn't been the same since Marshawn left.


    Wilson was fine without Marshawn in 2015 when Rawls was playing great. They need to establish a good running game for the team to play at their best offensively AND defensively.

    If Carson can continue to develop and Rawls comes back, it will help a lot. Play action doesn't work when you cannot run it.


    Bingo.

    So listen to me Pete and quit playing Lacy, he ain't gonna work behind this terrible line........unless you like your RB to run sideways and lose three yards every carry.

    Rawls, Carson and Prosise. Rinse and repeat.


    And I will say it again. RW and ML were great TOGETHER. They ran the read option. A d couldn't focus on RW or ML and RW would run for 500-900 yards per year. They helped each other.

    RW can protect himself on a read option. He can't just drop back in this pathetic 'pocket' this oline gives or he will die.

    Start scheming Bevell, it's your only job.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:24 pm
  • erik2690 wrote:

    I'm sure people have seen this, but this can't happen. Maybe this is an extreme example, but I think it's closer to this way more often than can happen to have any great success.


    It's simple, RW has to be better.

    :roll:
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:09 pm
  • Russ does need to play better, but how much hits would you allow him to take just to make plays like this?

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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:08 pm
  • xStickybudz wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:Because he had .7 seconds.

    On run plays the Dline was meeting RW and the RBs at handoff.

    Wenhawk wrote: He was pressured a bit .


    LOL


    I call BS. Rodgers was pressured more than Russ difference is more than half the time the ball was out of his hands almost instantly.


    What game were you watching where Rogers was pressured more than Russ? Russ had denfenders in his lap before he could even make a read


    I guess the stats showed Russ got pressured on a higer percent of snaps that Rodgers did but I watched the game and play after play wondered why it seemed Wilson didn't just take 3 steps and fire like Rodgers did.

    That fact that he is not as comfortable or successful doing that might have a lot to do with why GB was able to pressure more or send more pressure. That stats I want to see is..

    Release time Russ vs Rodgers
    How many rushers per play Sea vs GB Defense.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:17 pm
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    xStickybudz wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:Because he had .7 seconds.

    On run plays the Dline was meeting RW and the RBs at handoff.



    LOL


    I call BS. Rodgers was pressured more than Russ difference is more than half the time the ball was out of his hands almost instantly.


    What game were you watching where Rogers was pressured more than Russ? Russ had denfenders in his lap before he could even make a read

    wondered why it seemed Wilson didn't just take 3 steps and fire like Rodgers did.

    That fact that he is not as comfortable or successful doing that might have a lot to do with why GB was able to pressure more or send more pressure.
    .


    Not comfortable doing that? He dominated the league doing that.

    Get back to it BEVELL
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:23 pm
  • The only thing I blame Wilson for is for not freaking out on his OC, his OL, and his OL coach.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:25 pm
  • Anthony! wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Because he was about to be crushed by the defender and had to rush it. But yes he has to make that throw.
    The fumble was yet again on a play where the blockers did squat. But he does have to squeeze that ball tight.
    He was PART of it, but that O Line was absolutely putrid.




    What little blame that can be cast on Rw is so low on the list we should not even be talking about it. I mean the RBs have more blame than Rw, as do the WR/TE. Hence why we are talking about it make no sense. NO one in their right mind starts with the least responsible area, you start with the most which is the OLine.


    Did you watch the game?

    How in any way did our WR's play worse than Russ? I smell a complete RW homer. The guy is a really good QB but when you are making $20 Mil a year and are supposed to be in the best shape of our life and in the prime years of your career, there is no excuse.I think both Pete and Russ are at fault.

    Pete for allowing a subpar coaching effort on Offense and personnel decisions

    Russ for not overcoming the obstacles by making audibles, faster reads and putting the ball into his WR hands (ie Lockett)

    As bad as the OL played I think Russell not making them pay only compounded the issue. As my original argument was, at this point in his career he shoudl be able to make the calls necessary at the line to put this team ina better position to succeed. Even 1 TD out of Russ would have been nice.

    Give Stafford, Netwon, Eli, or any other $100 Mil QB the defense we have plus weapons like Baldwin and Graham I think even behind this line they would have got us a TD. Maybe I just expect too much from him.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:20 pm
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    Anthony! wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Because he was about to be crushed by the defender and had to rush it. But yes he has to make that throw.
    The fumble was yet again on a play where the blockers did squat. But he does have to squeeze that ball tight.
    He was PART of it, but that O Line was absolutely putrid.




    What little blame that can be cast on Rw is so low on the list we should not even be talking about it. I mean the RBs have more blame than Rw, as do the WR/TE. Hence why we are talking about it make no sense. NO one in their right mind starts with the least responsible area, you start with the most which is the OLine.


    Did you watch the game?

    How in any way did our WR's play worse than Russ? I smell a complete RW homer. The guy is a really good QB but when you are making $20 Mil a year and are supposed to be in the best shape of our life and in the prime years of your career, there is no excuse.I think both Pete and Russ are at fault.

    Pete for allowing a subpar coaching effort on Offense and personnel decisions

    Russ for not overcoming the obstacles by making audibles, faster reads and putting the ball into his WR hands (ie Lockett)

    As bad as the OL played I think Russell not making them pay only compounded the issue. As my original argument was, at this point in his career he shoudl be able to make the calls necessary at the line to put this team ina better position to succeed. Even 1 TD out of Russ would have been nice.

    Give Stafford, Netwon, Eli, or any other $100 Mil QB the defense we have plus weapons like Baldwin and Graham I think even behind this line they would have got us a TD. Maybe I just expect too much from him.



    There's a difference between homerism and just flat out logic and fairness

    Some of you seem hell bent on criticizing Russ for the sake of criticizing him. It doesn't sound reasonable. There are excuses and then there are rational, logical reasons.

    The fact is, every metric, every number shows that Russ is facing a tougher obstacle than the Qbs you mentioned. Lowest paid O-line, at one point among the lowest paid receivers. Most pressured Qb since being in the league. It does not matter how many audibles and fast reads you make if your personnel doesn't match. There is such a thing as not being protected adequately. You seem to have this unrealistic mindset that a QB can simply do whatever he wants on offense if he puts his mind to it. Qbs need support, it's a team game

    You would have more of a point if our running backs were able to take one step before being blown up in the backfield. So quick throws don't solve the problem. Literally no other Qb is held to this extreme standard. And saying that Stafford, Newton, or Eli would do better is horribly laughable especially given Eli's recent career
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:23 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    JTB wrote:On the Lockett play, Wilson could not step into the throw and Lockett was grabbed by the DB. Honestly, the throws down the seam to McEvoy and Graham at the end of the first half were worse throws to me than the Lockett one.
    .



    I saw that, he did have a lineman pushed in his face. But again, that's a throw great QB's make. It just is.

    No excuses. On the road against a very good opponent, gotta have that.


    So what you're saying is, an elite Qb can never miss a throw with a Defensive Lineman preventing him from stepping into his throw?

    Sorry, but it seems like a case of wanting to be right rather than getting it right. Some of the most unfair criticisms I've seen of ANY Qb in recent memory.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:32 pm
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    I guess the stats showed Russ got pressured on a higer percent of snaps that Rodgers did but I watched the game and play after play wondered why it seemed Wilson didn't just take 3 steps and fire like Rodgers did.

    That fact that he is not as comfortable or successful doing that might have a lot to do with why GB was able to pressure more or send more pressure. That stats I want to see is..

    Release time Russ vs Rodgers
    How many rushers per play Sea vs GB Defense.


    Yeah your narrative that Rodgers was firing it out and Russ was holding on forever doesn't show in the stats. Rodgers was 3.0 snap to throw. Wilson was 3.2. They were both fairly slow relative to average but not a big gap as you have been suggesting. I can understand the argument for Russ getting it out faster but acting like Rodgers was doing hat isn't shown statistically. The other mitigating factor is that Russ had far fewer attempts so his sample size is less ideal for judging. As in if he had a 5 second scamper around and throw it has more bearing on his average than it would on Rodgers. The reality is Wilson is pressured quite a bit more than most QB's and although hard to calculate an exact percentage of "blame" I don't think the stats show that it is mostly b/c of his snap to release. He was relatively fast snap to release last year and was still one of if not the most pressured QB's. I'd like a bigger sample size on this season before making many comments about snap to release time.
    Last edited by erik2690 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:18 pm
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    Give Stafford, Netwon, Eli, or any other $100 Mil QB the defense we have plus weapons like Baldwin and Graham I think even behind this line they would have got us a TD. Maybe I just expect too much from him.


    Eli?? Did you see any of SNF? Their OL was pretty bad, but not as atrocious as ours, and he put up a third of the points! He would be absolutely dead behind this line. Cam?? Did you see what happened to him in SB50 when his protection was bad? Forget that, how about his 2016 season? Much worse than Wilson's and his line was bad, but still better than ours. Stafford, maybe, but he would struggle mightily too. Even Brees, who is excellent, struggled mightily with bad protection due to OL injuries against the Vikings. The Saints' beat up OL is still way better than ours.

    To see the difference protection makes, look at the Vikings last year vs. Week 1 this year. Last year their line was a dumpster fire damn near as bad as ours. Yesterday, it looked pretty decent and Bradford was much, much better. He could actually hit long developing routes and showed that he can be a really good QB in this league after years of being behind garbage lines in bad offenses.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:56 am
  • we lost because of two stupid errors, which Green Bay capitalized perfectly. One was wilsons fumble in own red zone, one was the too many men on the field -thing that gave them a free play that resulted in a td.

    Green bay did not do much besides those two times.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:32 am
  • I wasn't as impressed with GB as a lot of people were. 11 points were taken off the board, the Pack didn't score a single point in the first half, and one of their "drives" was 4 yards.
    Meh
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:33 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:Cute...

    14 completions to 28. 158 yards to 311. So not as many though.

    He struggled. People can admit that without fearing the worst.


    I guess that some posters look beyond the numbers to get to the reasons behind the struggles. The simple narrative is the the QB sucks. The more complex narrative spreads blame around. Run game being non-existent. Receivers not getting separation. Graham ho-humming his way through the game. Atrocious pass blocking. Russell not recognizing where the pressure was coming from and bailing the wrong way. Vanilla play calling that fooled no one. And shitty reffing.

    Russell is and always will be the least of our worries. Most people with eyes can see that.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:03 am
  • How many did he throw away to avoid a sack? That seems to never be talked about.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:13 am
  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    JTB wrote:On the Lockett play, Wilson could not step into the throw and Lockett was grabbed by the DB. Honestly, the throws down the seam to McEvoy and Graham at the end of the first half were worse throws to me than the Lockett one.
    .



    I saw that, he did have a lineman pushed in his face. But again, that's a throw great QB's make. It just is.

    No excuses. On the road against a very good opponent, gotta have that.


    So what you're saying is, an elite Qb can never miss a throw with a Defensive Lineman preventing him from stepping into his throw?

    Sorry, but it seems like a case of wanting to be right rather than getting it right. Some of the most unfair criticisms I've seen of ANY Qb in recent memory.


    Never? Of Course not, even the greats missed throws.

    But in a game of very evenly matched teams, these are the plays that decide games.......and Russell missed his opportunities, and even contributed to the loss by fumbling on our 5.

    So sorry, not unfair. If we're looking for reasons as to why we lost the game Sunday? O-line is #1, but missed opportunities is #2, and the BIGGEST missed opportunity was Russell overthrowing Tyler, even with a guy in his face. A throw he's made before.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:18 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    JTB wrote:On the Lockett play, Wilson could not step into the throw and Lockett was grabbed by the DB. Honestly, the throws down the seam to McEvoy and Graham at the end of the first half were worse throws to me than the Lockett one.
    .



    I saw that, he did have a lineman pushed in his face. But again, that's a throw great QB's make. It just is.

    No excuses. On the road against a very good opponent, gotta have that.


    So what you're saying is, an elite Qb can never miss a throw with a Defensive Lineman preventing him from stepping into his throw?

    Sorry, but it seems like a case of wanting to be right rather than getting it right. Some of the most unfair criticisms I've seen of ANY Qb in recent memory.


    Never? Of Course not, even the greats missed throws.

    But in a game of very evenly matched teams, these are the plays that decide games.......and Russell missed his opportunities, and even contributed to the loss by fumbling on our 5.

    So sorry, not unfair. If we're looking for reasons as to why we lost the game Sunday? O-line is #1, but missed opportunities is #2, and the BIGGEST missed opportunity was Russell overthrowing Tyler, even with a guy in his face. A throw he's made before.


    That throw was not all on Russell and pressure. As stated, the DB hooked Lockett and slowed him down and the ball was in the air already. You cannot throw all those variables at a good QB and say it was a big moment, it HAS to happen.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:42 pm
  • I said in an earlier comment that Wilson was at 3.2 and Rodgers 3.0 on snap to release time. Now I see PFF actually has that reversed and says Wilson was 3.0 and Rodgers was 3.20. I don't know what to believe but it makes even clearer the idea that Rodgers was just firing it out quickly everytime is not shown in the stats.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:44 pm
  • So you're saying that when the ball is already in mid-air, then the WR gets hooked, that Russ can't stop the ball in mid air and slow it down? Come on Russ :lol:
    Shoot, the drop by Graham on 3rd down was big too. He has to come down with that back shoulder throw.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:54 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:How many did he throw away to avoid a sack? That seems to never be talked about.


    I saw several that were throwaways while being hit OR hit a mere half second later. I was heartened by it though. Taking sacks sucks worse than incompletions
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:10 pm
  • TwilightError wrote:we lost because of two stupid errors, which Green Bay capitalized perfectly. One was wilsons fumble in own red zone, one was the too many men on the field -thing that gave them a free play that resulted in a td.

    Green bay did not do much besides those two times.


    Actually three stupid errors. Cliff avrils block in the back took points off the table.

    Lane being ejected for getting facemasked was One of the worst moments in football refereeing. The refs should have no excuses on that.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:42 pm
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Cute...

    14 completions to 28. 158 yards to 311. So not as many though.

    He struggled. People can admit that without fearing the worst.


    I guess that some posters look beyond the numbers to get to the reasons behind the struggles. The simple narrative is the the QB sucks. The more complex narrative spreads blame around. Run game being non-existent. Receivers not getting separation. Graham ho-humming his way through the game. Atrocious pass blocking. Russell not recognizing where the pressure was coming from and bailing the wrong way. Vanilla play calling that fooled no one. And shitty reffing.

    Russell is and always will be the least of our worries. Most people with eyes can see that.


    This thread is about the QB. We have other threads for other problems.

    Some on here think too narrowly.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:00 pm
  • Well I am surprised at the release times. What would have been different if Kapernick or Austin were running the show. We'd have $18 mil to spend on the OL....

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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:38 pm
  • We would also have QBs who aren't fit to hold Russ's jock. What is this obsession people have with attacking Russ. Including the bullshit about it's geometry. No it isn't at all. No QB except maybe Osweiler is throwing over their line. A competent line creates passing lanes. Go watch Russ at Wisconsin to see how he functions with a competent line and OC. Or just watch him in the end of the year before last. Seriously why are people so damn hell-bent on bashing Russ we have the worst line in the NFL and it isn't close.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:43 pm
  • farhat wrote:I believe there is something to this...

    Russell is not elite at the line of scrimmage. He rarely fakes the snap and rarely audibles. These are critical abilities in the NFL.

    He is not a quick decision maker. He holds the ball too long.

    He is not as fast to scramble.

    He is not as quick when he decides to scramble.

    I still believe in Russell, but I do believe that he is not as obsessed with the game as he is obsessed with himself.


    You make some very valid points.

    And I don't just say that because I agree with many of them... ;)
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:46 pm
  • RW's play is as much a symptom as it is the disease.

    This team needs some help mentally/emotionally/physically.

    The did pretty well last weekend BUT it is an aging crew and I fear it won't hold up through the entire season.

    And without a healthy and motivated defense, this team is a .500 or barely better crew...
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:28 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Russell does audible now, a LOT. Again, doesn't fix having no time against press coverage.

    GB played the ENTIRE game in nickel and dime coverage to prevent our quick passing attack and screen game. How do you combat that? You Run the damn ball down their 175lb DB's throats.

    But no, our O-line is so bad we couldn't even do that.

    You guys are grasping at straws that don't exist. Pete, Bevell and Russell know everything you're saying, you NEED an O-line and blocking schemes that are at least average to accomplish any success.


    Maybe some of the predictability in our playcalling/formations amplifies the problem. Seems pretty obvious when we run and exactly where it's going.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:35 pm
  • I think there are valid criticisms of RW but there are also ones that work backwards from Peyton or Brees or Brady or Rodgers and say "Do that RW!"

    RW has limitations as a QB. He's somehow been able to overcome those limitations to somehow be very efficient in spite of the boners and calamity. Working with Bevell.

    I think there are a few criticisms going down -

    He's the highest paid player on offense, he should be playing like a potential GOAT candidate in a pass heavy offense.
    (Every team has a certain portion of fans that believe this even if they DO have a GOAT candidate. Yes, every QB should be excellent given their salary portion, they aren't, teams find a way to deal.)

    His team is constructed specifically to utilize his talents on offense. (It's not)

    Marshawn Lynch made him above average. (Yes, and I posit that Marshawn Lynch would have done the exact same thing with Kaep instead of RW. Is Kaep really a better QB than RW though, on the whole, even if he and Lynch running RO would likely have been dynamite? No. RW benefits from a strong running game he participates in. When's the last time he did that?)

    Bevell is playing towards RW's abilities all the time, whatever you believe them to be. RW just isn't doing it right. (Certainly wasn't on Sunday. The end of 2015 was everything you could have hoped for and more out of RW, they aren't doing that now. They also aren't running the ball down throats or executing beautiful play actions or having a useful gimmick like Read Option.)

    RW needs to take it upon himself to do something different on the field (That's not how any of this works).

    RW's personal life is ruining him (Just like how it's ruined every single QB who ever got married ever. Ya'll are worse than fans of Esports riding their teenage heros for chasing their boners instead of practicing 18 hours a day)

    Russell Wilson isn't the best QB, he doesn't have to be the best passing QB and driver of the entire offense to prove his worth either. There's a nuance where he must play well for success but he is conditionally bound by what the offense is trying to do and what it's not capable of doing well. So far that's been rushing and blocking. Anyone want to fade a bet that if the running game and OL play better RW wouldnt resemble his prior self? Or if put into a spread passing game with RO always a threat it wouldn't at least be more entertaining and less soul sucking than this?

    So yeah, RW needs to play better - he also needs to be put into a position to actually do so rather than expected to capriciously decide he prefers it now. I'm sure RW would love to do things different, he'd rather get kicked in the stomach by coaches and thank them for the character building experience than defend his desire to do things different.

    So many people see limitations as road blocks. They'd rather yell at a gate than find out how to deal with it., maybe get around it.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:49 pm
  • Wenhawk wrote:The stat that would be most telling other than pressure is the release time on throws. If Rodgers had taken one more second per like Russ did I am sure our DL would have had a much higher percentage of pressures.

    I'm a big Wilson fan but after all the talk that he is in the best shape of his life and the 5th year is the year you take that next step, I did not see it. Yes I expected him to get it to Doug or Jimmy wide open on not, put the damn ball in their hands.

    Could you imagine how much more effective this defense would have been if only we had converted a few more 1st downs. As a $100M QB I expect him to have the ability to make some of his own calls and put his team in position to win.

    does everyone here really believe that the last 15 years Manning, Brady, and Rodgers have had an amazing OL? No they get the ball out faster than any other QB's in the game with pinpoint accuracy. Even Rivers has his moments.


    The issue of him making his own calls is the most important aspect of this post. I also don't get why he constantly stays with the play call given to him, and doesn't change the play either in the huddle or audible out more at the line of scrimmage. A true elite QB would see the issues and do this no matter what the OC or HC say.

    Who is the back up? How much are they paying Wilson to be the guy? Who is going to replace him if he changes 10-15 % of the calls on his own? Who is going to criticize him if he takes some of the play calling on when truly obvious weakness are found; either ours or the opposing defense?

    This is what makes me believe his isn't in the top tier of QB's and if this doesn't change will never get there in his career.

    It's time for him to stop being and acting in many ways like a rookie. Be a man and lead this team like you can!
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 pm
  • erik2690 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:
    I guess the stats showed Russ got pressured on a higer percent of snaps that Rodgers did but I watched the game and play after play wondered why it seemed Wilson didn't just take 3 steps and fire like Rodgers did.

    That fact that he is not as comfortable or successful doing that might have a lot to do with why GB was able to pressure more or send more pressure. That stats I want to see is..

    Release time Russ vs Rodgers
    How many rushers per play Sea vs GB Defense.


    Yeah your narrative that Rodgers was firing it out and Russ was holding on forever doesn't show in the stats. Rodgers was 3.0 snap to throw. Wilson was 3.2. They were both fairly slow relative to average but not a big gap as you have been suggesting. I can understand the argument for Russ getting it out faster but acting like Rodgers was doing hat isn't shown statistically. The other mitigating factor is that Russ had far fewer attempts so his sample size is less ideal for judging. As in if he had a 5 second scamper around and throw it has more bearing on his average than it would on Rodgers. The reality is Wilson is pressured quite a bit more than most QB's and although hard to calculate an exact percentage of "blame" I don't think the stats show that it is mostly b/c of his snap to release. He was relatively fast snap to release last year and was still one of if not the most pressured QB's. I'd like a bigger sample size on this season before making many comments about snap to release time.

    This post is the result of either A) not watching the game, B) watching but lacking the capacity to objectively analyze the action, or C) just not understanding what is going on. Rodgers 3.0 seconds was the result of getting the ball out quickly when he needed to and holding onto it while waiting for something to develop when he had time. Wilson's 3.2 seconds was the result of failing to identify pressure and holding onto the ball regardless of the situation.

    To answer the OP: Why not blame RW? The same reason not to blame Bevell. There is no way for us to know where the disconnect is. Is it play design? Is it play calling? Is it pre-snap reads? Is it execution? Is it personnel (maybe no one on the offense is as good as we or the media think they are)?
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:31 pm
  • kf3339 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:The stat that would be most telling other than pressure is the release time on throws. If Rodgers had taken one more second per like Russ did I am sure our DL would have had a much higher percentage of pressures.

    I'm a big Wilson fan but after all the talk that he is in the best shape of his life and the 5th year is the year you take that next step, I did not see it. Yes I expected him to get it to Doug or Jimmy wide open on not, put the damn ball in their hands.

    Could you imagine how much more effective this defense would have been if only we had converted a few more 1st downs. As a $100M QB I expect him to have the ability to make some of his own calls and put his team in position to win.

    does everyone here really believe that the last 15 years Manning, Brady, and Rodgers have had an amazing OL? No they get the ball out faster than any other QB's in the game with pinpoint accuracy. Even Rivers has his moments.


    The issue of him making his own calls is the most important aspect of this post. I also don't get why he constantly stays with the play call given to him, and doesn't change the play either in the huddle or audible out more at the line of scrimmage. A true elite QB would see the issues and do this no matter what the OC or HC say.

    Who is the back up? How much are they paying Wilson to be the guy? Who is going to replace him if he changes 10-15 % of the calls on his own? Who is going to criticize him if he takes some of the play calling on when truly obvious weakness are found; either ours or the opposing defense?

    This is what makes me believe his isn't in the top tier of QB's and if this doesn't change will never get there in his career.

    It's time for him to stop being and acting in many ways like a rookie. Be a man and lead this team like you can!

    You really don't get how it works in the NFL. You're talking about sandlot football where Mr. Haley's driveway is one end zone and the swing set and lilac bush is the other.

    Seriously, there's too many moving parts to go rogue. Bevell and Co. have coached him up to call an audible if he spots an area of the defense to exploit.
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Re: Why not blame Russell Wilson
Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:30 am
  • erik2690 wrote:I said in an earlier comment that Wilson was at 3.2 and Rodgers 3.0 on snap to release time. Now I see PFF actually has that reversed and says Wilson was 3.0 and Rodgers was 3.20. I don't know what to believe but it makes even clearer the idea that Rodgers was just firing it out quickly everytime is not shown in the stats.


    I'd believe it - I lost count of the number of drives Rodgers extended escaping pressure by bailing from the pocket and tossing a completion, or at the very least a throwaway without giving up a big sack.

    Rodgers was pressured all day long but had somewhere to escape to usually, whereas GB did a very good job of containing Wilson
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