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Move Luke Joeckel to LT

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Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:29 pm
  • Joeckel has years and years of experience playing LT. He started 37 games at left tackle for Texas A&M and won the Outland Trophy. I understand they think he is better as a guard; I just don't think we have that luxury right now. We need better play on Russell Wilson's blindside. Wilson needs to feel comfortable while making his reads. Joeckel is a physically stronger player than Rees Odhiambo, and he has better length too. Most importantly, he is a veteran who has already been through the trials and tribulations of starting in the NFL.

    LT Luke Joeckel
    LG Mark Glowinski
    C Justin Britt
    RG Germain Ifedi
    RT Ethan Pocic

    I don't know whether they would consider moving Ifedi back inside, where he looked more comfortable in pass protection. However, I think the biggest issue right now is addressing the left side of the offensive line, specifically LT. Joeckel is the only player who makes sense at that position.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:31 pm
  • I think Obi just gave up another sack.........
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:40 pm
  • This conjecture is fun. I'll try.

    Ifedi sucks as a guard. He plays too high, and doesn't seem fixable. He probably gets most of this year to figure it out on the edge. If he continues to suck at RT, it won't be long before he's labeled a bust and you see shuffling. I don't love Pocic playing outside, however.

    Word from camp, which was probably conveyed somewhere on .NET, was Glowinski is much better at RG than LG. He stays there or gets replaced with Pocic, I think. If he fails at RG, he's done.

    If we put Joeckel at LT, I think you'd see Odihambo or the Purdue rookie, Roos at LG. But, I think Tobin gets a shot first at LT. Assuming Ifedi doesn't get better, I think you don't have much choice but to put Joeckel on the right side.

    My guess, if things are shuffled, and Glow and Odihambo and Ifedi don't have a place, is:

    Tobin Roos Britt Pocic Joeckel.
    LT ..... LG ..... C .... RG ...... RT

    But, I really hope Ifedi gets it. He could be such a good RT. Especially as a run blocker. Dude is a born mauler.
    Last edited by nanomoz on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:43 pm
  • I don't agree with Pete Carroll about Odhiambo not being physically overmatched at the NFL level. Odhiambo is significantly worse in pass pro than even Bradly Sowell was at the beginning of last season. He is not experienced, strong, long, or quick. He is none of those things. When you have a LT who is allowing pressures at the current rate, an injury to Russell Wilson is not a question of 'if'-- but 'when.' It is going to have a mental effect on Wilson's ability to execute the offense.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:45 pm
  • Did anyone watch Joeckel at LT when he played in Jacksonville? Yikes, terrible.

    What I saw Sunday was a guy who's coming off a major leg injury with tired legs. Looked fine for about a half, then deteriorated.

    Hopefully he just needs to get his legs underneath him cause he hasn't played an entire game for a long time. But move Joeckel to tackle? Nope, that creates all new problems.

    If you don't have faith in him, then just replace him with Pocic or Tobin, but don't make more parts of the line worse by moving him.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:48 pm
  • We need to start the new fangled spread offense consisting of only one lineman. Release all of them outside of Pocic and Britt, and activate any available receiver off the PS.

    Lets face it, as soon as Russ gets the snap he is bombarded anyways, so why not have 9 eligible receivers? Hike the ball then let em' all go on a route :D

    Center- Britt
    Qb- Russ
    Wr: Baldwin
    Wr: Lockett
    Wr: Darboh
    Wr: Lawler
    Wr: McKissic
    Wr: McEvoy
    Rb: Lacy
    Rb: Rawls
    Rb: Carson
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:50 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Did anyone watch Joeckel at LT when he played in Jacksonville? Yikes, terrible.

    What I saw Sunday was a guy who's coming off a major leg injury with tired legs. Looked fine for about a half, then deteriorated.

    Hopefully he just needs to get his legs underneath him cause he hasn't played an entire game for a long time. But move Joeckel to tackle? Nope, that creates all new problems.

    If you don't have faith in him, then just replace him with Pocic or Tobin, but don't make more parts of the line worse by moving him.


    Even as a rookie playing LT, Joeckel looked about 500% better than Odhiambo. He wasn't a stud, but he was at least an average tackle by his 2nd and 3rd year.

    The scariest thought is that they won't do ANYTHING to address the LT position.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:57 pm
  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    The scariest thought is that they won't do ANYTHING to address the LT position.


    This is 75% of the league, next to QB it's the hardest position to find a good one.

    Pete and John decided not to offer Okung a 2nd deal, and we've been paying for it since. Calculate risk, and so far it's blown up in our faces.

    Not like Okung has been amazing since leaving, but watching him last night I only saw one play where he was beaten badly. But IMO even a 70% Okung is better than the dumpster fires we've been trotting out at LT.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:09 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Did anyone watch Joeckel at LT when he played in Jacksonville? Yikes, terrible.

    What I saw Sunday was a guy who's coming off a major leg injury with tired legs. Looked fine for about a half, then deteriorated.

    Hopefully he just needs to get his legs underneath him cause he hasn't played an entire game for a long time. But move Joeckel to tackle? Nope, that creates all new problems.

    If you don't have faith in him, then just replace him with Pocic or Tobin, but don't make more parts of the line worse by moving him.


    I agree. If he is having difficulties at LG then moving him to LT is a suicide wish.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:16 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Did anyone watch Joeckel at LT when he played in Jacksonville? Yikes, terrible.

    What I saw Sunday was a guy who's coming off a major leg injury with tired legs. Looked fine for about a half, then deteriorated.

    Hopefully he just needs to get his legs underneath him cause he hasn't played an entire game for a long time. But move Joeckel to tackle? Nope, that creates all new problems.

    If you don't have faith in him, then just replace him with Pocic or Tobin, but don't make more parts of the line worse by moving him.


    I agree. If he is having difficulties at LG then moving him to LT is a suicide wish.


    He struggled at LG because he is a 6'6 and was going against the best leverage DT in the league in Mike Daniels.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:16 pm
  • I don't understand the Joekel love. He failed at LT, so they moved him to LG, and then they cut him. This was what, the 2nd overall pick in the draft? You don't cut him unless there's something wrong with him at LT.

    Give this OLine a chance to get their feet under them. The first game, the defense is always ahead of the offense, and an ELITE team like GB, always has a home field advantage.

    Our odds of winning that game were slim to none, and no surprise, we lost.

    And it's really tough to slow down Nick Perry. Last year he had 35 tackles, 11 sacks, 4 passes defensed, and 1 INT.

    Add Clay Matthews, and a damn good team across the board, and it's tough to win there.

    Remember, John Schneider learned the ropes from Ted Thompson and Ron Wolf, two of the best.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:18 pm
  • ivotuk wrote:I don't understand the Joekel love. He failed at LT, so they moved him to LG, and then they cut him. This was what, the 2nd overall pick in the draft? You don't cut him unless there's something wrong with him at LT.

    Give this OLine a chance to get their feet under them. The first game, the defense is always ahead of the offense, and an ELITE team like GB, always has a home field advantage.

    Our odds of winning that game were slim to none, and no surprise, we lost.

    And it's really tough to slow down Nick Perry. Last year he had 35 tackles, 11 sacks, 4 passes defensed, and 1 INT.

    Add Clay Matthews, and a damn good team across the board, and it's tough to win there.

    Remember, John Schneider learned the ropes from Ted Thompson and Ron Wolf, two of the best.


    I would not say it is "love." I think of it as the best alternative to what is a dire situation at LT. Getting more experience and length at that position is going to be critical.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:20 pm
  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Did anyone watch Joeckel at LT when he played in Jacksonville? Yikes, terrible.

    What I saw Sunday was a guy who's coming off a major leg injury with tired legs. Looked fine for about a half, then deteriorated.

    Hopefully he just needs to get his legs underneath him cause he hasn't played an entire game for a long time. But move Joeckel to tackle? Nope, that creates all new problems.

    If you don't have faith in him, then just replace him with Pocic or Tobin, but don't make more parts of the line worse by moving him.


    I agree. If he is having difficulties at LG then moving him to LT is a suicide wish.


    He struggled at LG because he is a 6'6 and was going against the best leverage DT in the league in Mike Daniels.


    I think you are overstating Daniels strength, size, and ability. I would not even put him over Richardson who we just picked up.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:22 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Did anyone watch Joeckel at LT when he played in Jacksonville? Yikes, terrible.

    What I saw Sunday was a guy who's coming off a major leg injury with tired legs. Looked fine for about a half, then deteriorated.

    Hopefully he just needs to get his legs underneath him cause he hasn't played an entire game for a long time. But move Joeckel to tackle? Nope, that creates all new problems.

    If you don't have faith in him, then just replace him with Pocic or Tobin, but don't make more parts of the line worse by moving him.


    I agree. If he is having difficulties at LG then moving him to LT is a suicide wish.


    He struggled at LG because he is a 6'6 and was going against the best leverage DT in the league in Mike Daniels.


    I think you are overstating Daniels strength, size, and ability. I would not even put him over Richardson who we just picked up.


    In terms of leverage, Daniels is the best I have seen in the last two years. Richardson is more explosive; I will give you that. Daniels plays like a bulldozer.

    Edit - I just checked PFF to see if I am completely crazy and just seeing things. They too have Daniels graded out as their #1 DT:
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/pl ... niels/7132
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:25 pm
  • ivotuk wrote:I don't understand the Joekel love. He failed at LT, so they moved him to LG, and then they cut him.


    He wasn't cut. He just wasn't re-signed.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:26 pm
  • I don't think Joeckel would be a good LT. LG is an easier position and he struggled there last Sunday. There are some vets available and since it's after week 1, they don't have to guarantee salaries. They can sign guys like Eric Winston and/or Jeremy Zuttah to help. While they aren't pro-bowlers, they are an upgrade over what is there now. Also Branden Albert could be an option at LT. In any case, something needs to be done quickly.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:27 pm
  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    I agree. If he is having difficulties at LG then moving him to LT is a suicide wish.


    He struggled at LG because he is a 6'6 and was going against the best leverage DT in the league in Mike Daniels.


    I think you are overstating Daniels strength, size, and ability. I would not even put him over Richardson who we just picked up.


    In terms of leverage, Daniels is the best I have seen in the last two years. Richardson is more explosive; I will give you that. Daniels plays like a bulldozer.

    Edit - I just checked PFF to see if I am completely crazy and just seeing things. They too have Daniels graded out as their #1 DT:
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/pl ... niels/7132


    He is in the top group, but not #1 overall. DT Aaron Donald, 95.6 for starters is rated higher.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-defensive-front-sevens-this-season
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:29 pm
  • hawknation2017 wrote:
    ivotuk wrote:I don't understand the Joekel love. He failed at LT, so they moved him to LG, and then they cut him. This was what, the 2nd overall pick in the draft? You don't cut him unless there's something wrong with him at LT.

    Give this OLine a chance to get their feet under them. The first game, the defense is always ahead of the offense, and an ELITE team like GB, always has a home field advantage.

    Our odds of winning that game were slim to none, and no surprise, we lost.

    And it's really tough to slow down Nick Perry. Last year he had 35 tackles, 11 sacks, 4 passes defensed, and 1 INT.

    Add Clay Matthews, and a damn good team across the board, and it's tough to win there.

    Remember, John Schneider learned the ropes from Ted Thompson and Ron Wolf, two of the best.


    I would not say it is "love." I think of it as the best alternative to what is a dire situation at LT. Getting more experience and length at that position is going to be critical.


    While Sunday was a dumpster fire I don't think trying to replace one questionable part with another questionable part is a good idea. If this group has any chance of improving and becoming serviceable it will be from letting them play and hopefully learn from experience. If we are going to make any changes they need to go outside the team and get a proven tackle. Which I know doesn't exist. So we live and or die with what we got.

    If 4 weeks from now it's still not working then tinker away.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:32 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    hawknation2017 wrote:
    He struggled at LG because he is a 6'6 and was going against the best leverage DT in the league in Mike Daniels.


    I think you are overstating Daniels strength, size, and ability. I would not even put him over Richardson who we just picked up.


    In terms of leverage, Daniels is the best I have seen in the last two years. Richardson is more explosive; I will give you that. Daniels plays like a bulldozer.

    Edit - I just checked PFF to see if I am completely crazy and just seeing things. They too have Daniels graded out as their #1 DT:
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/pl ... niels/7132


    He is in the top group, but not #1 overall. DT Aaron Donald, 95.6 for starters is rated higher.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-defensive-front-sevens-this-season


    I think that was before the season started. Donald hasn't played this year, and I see a "#1" next to Daniels' current grade. Anyway, Donald's style is all about explosiveness and hand fighting, which is not what I am talking about. Daniels plays with much better leverage. He's a bulldozer.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:36 pm
  • Branden Albert is still out there right now. It's past the first game so contracts for vets are not guaranteed. If I was JS and PC a call to his agent would happen. But it won't happen. That would make too much sense.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:42 pm
  • kf3339 wrote:Branden Albert is still out there right now. It's past the first game so contracts for vets are not guaranteed. If I was JS and PC a call to his agent would happen. But it won't happen. That would make too much sense.


    Does he fit our blocking scheme. :D
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:45 pm
  • Foghawk wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:Branden Albert is still out there right now. It's past the first game so contracts for vets are not guaranteed. If I was JS and PC a call to his agent would happen. But it won't happen. That would make too much sense.


    Does he fit our blocking scheme. :D


    I depends; what blocking scheme? From what I saw the scheme was to get bulldozed, or just wave the DL by to hit RW or chase him around the field. How could Albert be any worse? :lol:
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:02 pm
  • Something is wrong with Cable's coaching pass pro though. I mean I know that's not breaking news but look at the film of our 300 lb linemen all getting rag dolled! It's not easy to toss a 300 lb man like that if he knows how to balance. We have too many linemen having the same issue for this to be coincidence.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:11 pm
  • brimsalabim wrote:Something is wrong with Cable's coaching pass pro though. I mean I know that's not breaking news but look at the film of our 300 lb linemen all getting rag dolled! It's not easy to toss a 300 lb man like that if he knows how to balance. We have too many linemen having the same issue for this to be coincidence.


    Well, it starts with the personnel. We are the only team that spends less than 10% of the salary cap on offensive linemen. That is not suddenly going to get better by firing Cable in the middle of the season -- the one coach on the offensive staff who gives a damn about running the football.

    Rees Odhiambo was terrible last year, and now that the bullets are flying, he looks terrible this year too. None of our personnel acquisitions have made pass protection a priority: NONE. We have TEs who are receivers first and foremost. We have a fullback who is really just a running back in disguise. To a man, every linemen on this roster had issues in pass protection in college.

    I don't think Rees Odhiambo is necessarily a Tom Cable guy either. He looked like Schenider's attempt to produce an Alvin Bailey clone to fill the swing role. He's not strong or explosive, unlike the typical Cable lineman (think: Carpenter, Okung, Sweezy, Britt, Glowinski, Ifedi, etc.)
    Last edited by hawknation2017 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:11 pm
  • brimsalabim wrote:Something is wrong with Cable's coaching pass pro though. I mean I know that's not breaking news but look at the film of our 300 lb linemen all getting rag dolled! It's not easy to toss a 300 lb man like that if he knows how to balance. We have too many linemen having the same issue for this to be coincidence.


    The problem is his philosophy...he wants guys who dive to the ground and run to the second level without blocking first level. He wants athletic guys rather than anchor - who are are tanks and immovable objects - guys.
    Last edited by hawkfan68 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:23 pm
  • hawknation2017 wrote:Joeckel has years and years of experience playing LT. He started 37 games at left tackle for Texas A&M and won the Outland Trophy. I understand they think he is better as a guard; I just don't think we have that luxury right now. We need better play on Russell Wilson's blindside. Wilson needs to feel comfortable while making his reads. Joeckel is a physically stronger player than Rees Odhiambo, and he has better length too. Most importantly, he is a veteran who has already been through the trials and tribulations of starting in the NFL.

    LT Luke Joeckel
    LG Mark Glowinski
    C Justin Britt
    RG Germain Ifedi
    RT Ethan Pocic

    I don't know whether they would consider moving Ifedi back inside, where he looked more comfortable in pass protection. However, I think the biggest issue right now is addressing the left side of the offensive line, specifically LT. Joeckel is the only player who makes sense at that position.


    The only thing I would say, and this is just a guess based on week 1 but I would leave Ifedi at RT given it's his true position and his numbers were a little better overall than the majority of what we saw from him last year.
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Re: Move Luke Joeckel to LT
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:30 pm
  • nanomoz wrote:
    ivotuk wrote:I don't understand the Joekel love. He failed at LT, so they moved him to LG, and then they cut him.


    He wasn't cut. He just wasn't re-signed.


    He actually had a decent year as a guard, which is probably why we decided to bring him in.
    I'm expecting him to have a better game against San Fran. Daniels was insane week 1.
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