We have the 3rd highest average draft position o-line

I compiled a list of all week 1 starters, plus projected starters for TB and Miami, and swapped Duane Brown into the Texans lineup despite his holdout. I then looked up each player's overall draft position. For undrafted players, they were assigned 255, although there was actually a player drafted 255, but most drafts end by then. I then averaged them all out. Only the Redskins and Browns have higher average draft position among their five o-line starters, and they both have pretty damn good o-lines.

This is more fuel for the fire that Cable sucks at developing linemen, although Joeckel wasn't drafted and developed by the Seahawks and is skewing the numbers. An interesting thing about this list is the only o-line comparable to the Seahawks last year was the Vikings, and they are dead last in average draft position. This is an indictment on both their ability to identify talent in the draft and their ability to develop it.

Team - Average
WAS - 49
CLE - 52.6
SEA - 65.6
NYG - 74
BUF - 78.8
DAL - 80.4
LAR - 80.8
HOU - 81.6
NO - 82.4
MIA - 85.4
DET - 90
ARI - 92.8
CAR - 102.4
ATL - 105.6
CIN - 108.2
KC - 108.4
CHI - 113.8
PHI - 121
IND - 121.8
PIT - 123
TB - 123.4
NE - 123.8
OAK - 124
TEN - 125.6
DEN - 128.6
SF - 130.4
GB - 131.2
NYJ - 135.2
JAX - 140.8
LAC - 160.2
BAL - 161
MIN - 162

Pretty telling, and looks very bad as far as Carroll not firing him. Blantantly poor scouting, development and coaching.

NYG, Hou, and NO aren't far behind us and their lines sucked worse than ours.

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First, a huge thank you to Erebus for doing all that work! Excellent find and work. Finally some solid proof against all those "but we draft last" of course we suck replies I'm tired of reading.

Fact of the matter is, yes not a ton of $$ (younger talent) but a ton of resource is getting chewed up drafting lineman year after year that are doing nothing but holding us back thanks to Cable, Brennon Carroll and Co.

Anyone watch the Vikings all new line they put together last night? Nice job Vikings....yes it can be done with someone in charge that knows what the hell they are looking at for talent.

The Vikings entered Monday with five starting linemen who had not been on the field together for even one snap in the preseason: Easton, left tackle Riley Reiff, center Pat Elflein, right guard Joe Berger and right tackle Mike Remmers.

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It would be hard not to say nice things about the linemen after their showing against the Saints. They opened plenty of holes for rookie running back Dalvin Cook, who ran for 127 yards, and they allowed just one sack of quarterback Sam Bradford, who was throwing the ball all over the field.

Bradford completed 27 of 32 passes for 346 yards with three touchdowns and had a career-high passer rating of 143.0.

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http://www.twincities.com/2017/09/12/vikings-offensive-line-answers-plenty-of-questions-in-opener/

Always Compete....unless you are a coach.

This topic has been beaten to death.

Ifedi is starting his 2nd year. Britt is starting his 2nd year at center. Fant was going to be the starter and Rees is in his first year as a starter and only his 2nd year in the league. Glow is a 5th rounder and has only started 2 games at RG. How many games has this crew played together? ONE.

Like you said, Joeckel wasn't the Hawks #2 pick but the Jags. He only has 5 starts at LG.

I don't know what else to say except the Hawks have had several OL make huge contracts so there is no problem with their talent evaluation and they simply have a young line that needs to grow together.

The topic will continue to be beaten to death because it has been turned into a campaign.

There will be more reaches and to fuzzy assertions to follow.

Seafan":2oqc8k42 said:

This topic has been beaten to death.

Ifedi is starting his 2nd year. Britt is starting his 2nd year at center. Fant was going to be the starter and Rees is in his first year as a starter and only his 2nd year in the league. Glow is a 5th rounder and has only started 2 games at RG. How many games has this crew played together? ONE.

Like you said, Joeckel wasn't the Hawks #2 pick but the Jags. He only has 5 starts at LG.

I don't know what else to say except the Hawks have had several OL make huge contracts so there is no problem with their talent evaluation and they simply have a young line that needs to grow together.

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And who is in charge of this constant rotation not letting the line gel?

Who is in charge of training these lineman to be the best at their respective position?

Who makes the call to take a guy who has played one OL osition through college, and decide to pull him from his experience and throw him at another OL position?

Who is the guy that decides to take player that have never played OL and think he can train them in one year to be good at a position they have never played?

And the last and most important question-Who is responsible for coaching and training the offensive line?

There is one answer to all these, but it seems you have never asked these questions.

OL actually take a few years, like most positions, to pan out. Every once in a while you get a rook who can actually play right now or maybe in a year, but most of the time you don't get ROI for about 3 years.

We never retain them and just start over. That's really the biggest thing. Most fans think that the draft is like their microwave, and that's just not true. Not even in the slightest.

That doesn't account for Joekel, however. It really wasn't just the one time. He was swatted like a fly more than once. He lacks strength to play inside, IMO.

If we're going to take the time to grow, move him out to LT where his feet and height (which also means lack of leverage against powerful DTs), will serve him better against smaller, faster defenders. If Roos is so impressive, let him play. I know he's strong enough to handle playing G and he's also shorter, which will help leverage and also RW's vision.

Jville":1vy2izg6 said:

The topic will continue to be beaten to death because it has been turned into a campaign.

There will be more reaches and to fuzzy assertions to follow.

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We didn't chose to "turn this into a campaign". The finished product, their end results, the continuous year after year shit show, and now the additional stress on an aging defense that can no longer hold 40 minutes on the field at a high level presents this to any objective fan interested in investigating the problem.

Seafan":3sq3mb68 said:

This topic has been beaten to death.

Ifedi is starting his 2nd year. Britt is starting his 2nd year at center. Fant was going to be the starter and Rees is in his first year as a starter and only his 2nd year in the league. Glow is a 5th rounder and has only started 2 games at RG. How many games has this crew played together? ONE.

Like you said, Joeckel wasn't the Hawks #2 pick but the Jags. He only has 5 starts at LG.

I don't know what else to say except the Hawks have had several OL make huge contracts so there is no problem with their talent evaluation and they simply have a young line that needs to grow together.

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BS! Our QB is getting beaten to death! What you are expressing isn't an excuse it's an indictment! No coach or GM in their right mind would plan to develop 5 offensive linemen and start them all and expect to have success! It's lunacy!

Jville":rx8ccnnf said:

The topic will continue to be beaten to death because it has been turned into a campaign.

There will be more reaches and to fuzzy assertions to follow.

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I don't get what you are getting at. This is the kind of research that eliminates funny assertions. The best teams in the league have Olines built with 4th-7th round draft picks because they can identify and coach up players. This saves money against the cap for these teams to spend on elite talent positions i.e. Pass rushers, pass catchers, and quarterbacks. Tom Cable has been here 7 years and has squandered a massive amount of draft capital and free agent signings. He has brought in over 50 free agents in 7 years. If you don't know that is 10 players per position along the Oline. At this point would you not want to know what this team would look like if they had one of the other 31 line coaches in the league?

vin.couve12":1r6q1kwy said:

OL actually take a few years, like most positions, to pan out. Every once in a while you get a rook who can actually play right now or maybe in a year, but most of the time you don't get ROI for about 3 years.

We never retain them and just start over. That's really the biggest thing. Most fans think that the draft is like their microwave, and that's just not true. Not even in the slightest.

That doesn't account for Joekel, however. It really wasn't just the one time. He was swatted like a fly more than once. He lacks strength to play inside, IMO.

If we're going to take the time to grow, move him out to LT where his feet and height (which also means lack of leverage against powerful DTs), will serve him better against smaller, faster defenders. If Roos is so impressive, let him play. I know he's strong enough to handle playing G and he's also shorter, which will help leverage and also RW's vision.

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We have no starting rookies! Read my post above about the new oline the Vikings just put together this year. Hogwash, excuses.

We didn't decide to swap positions of all those guys, our fearless and stubborn leaders did because they know more than all the other teams that generally avoid such stupidity. You could use a dart board and get better starting position results than Cable is getting.

O-linemen, D-linemen, Running backs, and Linebackers can start and dominate as rookies. Don't believe the Cable garbage about time to develop.

Seafan":ly6vpz9l said:

This topic has been beaten to death.

Ifedi is starting his 2nd year. Britt is starting his 2nd year at center. Fant was going to be the starter and Rees is in his first year as a starter and only his 2nd year in the league. Glow is a 5th rounder and has only started 2 games at RG. How many games has this crew played together? ONE.

Like you said, Joeckel wasn't the Hawks #2 pick but the Jags. He only has 5 starts at LG.

I don't know what else to say except the Hawks have had several OL make huge contracts so there is no problem with their talent evaluation and they simply have a young line that needs to grow together.

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Need to grow together? And so we should be okay with below mediocre performances at a professional level? How much time do they need to grow? Isn't that what practice and the preseason are for? Shouldn't take half the season of games that count to see an improvement. Like the poster above said even Minnesota put together an OL that put ours to shame and this was the first time they played together.

sdog1981":35dsqdwz said:

O-linemen, D-linemen, Running backs, and Linebackers can start and dominate as rookies. Don't believe the Cable garbage about time to develop.

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That's few and far between league wide and has nothing to do with cable. It's not McDonalds.

sdog1981":1io08orc said:

Jville":1io08orc said:

The topic will continue to be beaten to death because it has been turned into a campaign.

There will be more reaches and to fuzzy assertions to follow.

Click to expand...

I don't get what you are getting at. This is the kind of research that eliminates funny assertions. The best teams in the league have Olines built with 4th-7th round draft picks because they can identify and coach up players. This saves money against the cap for these teams to spend on elite talent positions i.e. Pass rushers, pass catchers, and quarterbacks. Tom Cable has been here 7 years and has squandered a massive amount of draft capital and free agent signings. He has brought in over 50 free agents in 7 years. If you don't know that is 10 players per position along the Oline. At this point would you not want to know what this team would look like if they had one of the other 31 line coaches in the league?

Click to expand...

I'm not dismissing the work that went into building the list. I hear and see the frustration. But, to seize upon a ranking, in isolation from all other factors, as a vehicle to arrive at a desired predetermine conclusion is a flawed exercise. It is only useful for fuzzy campaigns of persuasion. I fully expect frustration to drive the search for more fuzzy assertions. That is the nature of negative campaigns

With regards to a change of the offensive line coach, I expect that to be be reviewed once again in 2018. And I am ok with an annual post season performance review of all Seahawk personnel.

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/monday-not ... the-o-line

I guess some in this thread would like to cut the OL and start from scratch. What good would that do?

You may not like it but the 8 guys the Hawks dressed are the OL this season. The best thing for the Hawks to do is to stay the course and of course they will and they don't give a s&&& what you think of it. All lines need time to integrate. So what if you have a problem with it. Like I said earlier - this has been beaten to death.

Which means nothing.

Aaron Curry, Jason Smith, Ryan Leaf.

Plus, you're including Joekel, whom we did not pick. We picked him up off the street after the team that drafted Luke cut him.

Draft position means NOTHING.

Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Doug Baldwin, Chris Carson....


To say that they can't identify and develop talent, then include Luke Joekel, invalidates your argument.

Like Brock Huard says, "Figures Lie, and Liars Figure."

ivotuk":u0edebcx said:

Which means nothing.

Aaron Curry, Jason Smith, Ryan Leaf.

Plus, you're including Joekel, whom we did not pick. We picked him up off the street after the team that drafted Luke cut him.

Draft position means NOTHING.

Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Doug Baldwin, Chris Carson....


To say that they can't identify and develop talent, then include Luke Joekel, invalidates your argument.

Like Brock Huard says, "Figures Lie, and Liars Figure."

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It means plenty around here to all those that cling to the thin thread that we draft last, therefore of course we suck. It's just another BS excuse to ignore the problem.

Well it doesn't mean a whole lot really. Check out statistics league wide on 1st round picks alone and that will tell you enough.