Schneider's curious decision

hawknation2017 · Sep 25, 2017

Seattle had the 26th pick in the draft. As the 10-minute deadline to make the pick neared, Schneider made the brilliant move to trade that initial pick to the Atlanta Falcons, coached by our former DC Dan Quinn, in exchange for Atlanta’s 31st pick, as well as Atlanta’s 3rd-and-7th-round picks.

This was an amazing move. Schneider added two draft picks, and we were still in a prime position to draft one of the three top offensive tackles on the board: Wisconsin's Ryan Ramczyk, Alabama's Cam Robinson, or Western Michigan's Taylor Moton. As fortune had it, Seattle was in a position to draft TWO of these three linemen with their first two picks.

But then something very curious happened. Schneider doubled down, got on the phone with new-49ers GM John Lynch, and traded away the 31st pick to the 49ers to move down into the 2nd round and acquire their 4th round pick. The 49ers selected Reuben Foster with that 31st pick. And then the Saints nabbed Ryan Ramczyk with No. 32.

Ramczyk is a veritable stud. I watched the entire Saints-Panthers game on Sunday, and I couldn't believe my eyes. Brees had an eternity in the pocket. Ramczyk, starting at LT, was crushing guys in the run game and looked like a steely veteran in pass protection. I went back and watched the offensive plays from the Saints' first two weeks, and he was blocking well in those games too. He may be the highest graded rookie tackle, but he doesn't play like a rookie at all. By next season, I think he will be a Pro Bowler.

The problem is not so much that we didn't draft one particular player. After all, no one could be sure at the time that Ramczyk would be playing as well as he is in his first year. The real problem is that we squandered the opportunity to take ANY of the the best available tackles by once again trading out of the first round. And we did it for a 4th rounder.

Schneider is no doubt one of the NFL's best general managers. However, I think he has been too stubborn in his approach to the offensive line. This is not a mistake that should be repeated in the future if we ever hope to rehabilitate the level of talent in the offensive trenches.

Alright, "loss week" rant over. Tear me a new one for being a sorry armchair GM. :2thumbs:

ludakrishna · Sep 25, 2017

Valid points. This regimes eyes for identifying talent at the OL is horrendus. The same is true for coaching up drafted OL.

mistaowen · Sep 25, 2017

It's funny, I was watching the Browns game with my friend who is a Browns fan (I don't know how he does it) and they have the exact opposite problem on offense as our Hawks. Kizer had a legitimate U shaped pocket on almost all of his passes and wouldn't throw the ball. None of the receivers would get open and dropped many passes. Russell hikes the ball and two linemen are beat before it even reaches him. There is something truly wrong with the evaluation, coaching, and scheme implemented for the offensive line.

randomation · Sep 25, 2017

We tried to get too cute and instead of getting a solid tackle went for a boom or bust prospect with motivation issues who cracked his skull by being an idiot and using a quad. I really feel like they were completely set on McDowell. Remember Lamp was still available who would be considered a major upgrade over the guards we have currently.

Cyrus12 · Sep 25, 2017

Nice write up. It does really look like a whiff by our FO considering our first pick isn't even playing and we needed an O lineman a lot more.

HawkFan72 · Sep 25, 2017

I agree. I thought the first trade was brilliant, but the 2nd trade was foolish and greedy.

Word is that the Hawks had their sights on a DT and knew one of the ones they wanted would be there in the 2nd. Turned out to be true. But most of us wish they had just drafted for need in that spot. I'm sure in hindsight, the Hawks do too.

pittpnthrs · Sep 25, 2017

hawknation2017":1sfo9yz0 said:
Seattle had the 26th pick in the draft. As the 10-minute deadline to make the pick neared, Schneider made the brilliant move to trade that initial pick to the Atlanta Falcons, coached by our former DC Dan Quinn, in exchange for Atlanta’s 31st pick, as well as Atlanta’s 3rd-and-7th-round picks.

This was an amazing move. Schneider added two draft picks, and we were still in a prime position to draft one of the three top offensive tackles on the board: Wisconsin's Ryan Ramczyk, Alabama's Cam Robinson, or Western Michigan's Taylor Moton. As fortune had it, Seattle was in a position to draft TWO of these three linemen with their first two picks.

But then something very curious happened. Schneider doubled down, got on the phone with new-49ers GM John Lynch, and traded away the 31st pick to the 49ers to move down into the 2nd round and acquire their 4th round pick. The 49ers selected Reuben Foster with that 31st pick. And then the Saints nabbed Ryan Ramczyk with No. 32.

Ramczyk is a veritable stud. I watched the entire Saints-Panthers game on Sunday, and I couldn't believe my eyes. Brees had an eternity in the pocket. Ramczyk, starting at LT, was crushing guys in the run game and looked like a steely veteran in pass protection. I went back and watched the offensive plays from the Saints' first two weeks, and he was blocking well in those games too. He may be the highest graded rookie tackle, but he doesn't play like a rookie at all. By next season, I think he will be a Pro Bowler.

The problem is not so much that we didn't draft one particular player. After all, no one could be sure at the time that Ramczyk would be playing as well as he is in his first year. The real problem is that we squandered the opportunity to take ANY of the the best available tackles by once again trading out of the first round. And we did it for a 4th rounder.

Schneider is no doubt one of the NFL's best general managers. However, I think he has been too stubborn in his approach to the offensive line. This is not a mistake that should be repeated in the future if we ever hope to rehabilitate the level of talent in the offensive trenches.

Alright, "loss week" rant over. Tear me a new one for being a sorry armchair GM. :2thumbs:

Great post. I dont understand the draft thinking either. Teams biggest issue is the offensive line and we keep passing on players with certifiable skills for players that have versatility and a high ceiling. I complained about not nabbing up Ramczyk or Robinson when we had the chance, but people around here said it was a weak Oline class and we were better off passing on them, yet there they are starting. We pick McDowell instead because Pete or whoever thought the Dline was the biggest priority and we all know how that worked out. Heck we signed Richardson who is better than McDowell and we currently have the 30th ranked run defense in the league. Meanwhile they draft a center in Pocic to satisfy the Oline needs (the one area we didnt need) and he cant even get on the field although we have the worst Oline in the league. Doesnt make sense. I wish they would stop being cute and just draft the damn people the team needs.

Joyodongo · Sep 25, 2017

:sarcasm_on: No, that was a brilliant move, we didn't need any OT because George Fant was going to be a STUD this year at LT (same as Gary Gilliam last year, remember?). :sarcasm_off:

Sgt. Largent · Sep 25, 2017

It's hard for me to criticize Schneider's draft philosophy, the dude's one of the best, if not THE best at managing picks to maximize talent accumulation.

But when it comes to using that philosophy to draft O-linemen? That's where I have no problem being critical. It's been terrible to downright horrific in the Carroll/Schneider era.

Most draft capital/picks used on the O-line in the league, and year after year continue to have the worst line? You need to change how you're drafting O-linemen, or budget more cap space to overpay for FA linemen.

jammerhawk · Sep 25, 2017

The team's focus was upon a 3 tech and I suspect they likely had McDowell targetted at their initial 1st rd pick and were happy to grab a few extra picks trading down.

Who would know the kid would brain himself on a ATV and be lost for the season.

It worked out b/c the team picked up Richardson who with some luck will be kept around.

SeahawksEast · Sep 25, 2017

It'd seem, in hindsight, that the rationale was to field a serviceable line, and take an impact player for the defense. The biggest failing the last 2-3 years has been interior pass rush. You can have the LOB in their prime, however, they cannot cover forever against the average NFL caliber QB. My recollection was that their selection had red flags, though physically and functionally was a top ten talent available very late first to early second round. No one could have predicted an ATV accident or Fant going out for the year. Again, the plan appeared to be to fix the interior rush while fielding a serviceable albeit not stellar O line. Presumably, MM would have been an immediate impact player while we were (are) still laden with SB taken throughout the roster.

Hawks46 · Sep 25, 2017

I understand the move. We needed interior pass rush to complete our defense and no none could really see the Richardson trade coming.

Ramcyk had a really bad hip injury and no none was sure if it was going to be good even by the start of the season. Teams had to go solely off of tape on the kid because he couldn't work out for anyone.

Have you seen Cam Robinson play ? He's terrible. He'd fit right in our OL.

We also couldn't know Fant would get hurt. Then again, we also couldn't know Fant would be good or not either.

If it's me, with the state of our OL....I'd go after Ramcyk and take that chance. I honestly think Schneider is going off of what Pete and Cable tells them, which is that they have it handled. He seems smarter than that.

Seymour · Sep 25, 2017

Hawks46":3ocbft8b said:
I understand the move. We needed interior pass rush to complete our defense and no none could really see the Richardson trade coming.

Ramcyk had a really bad hip injury and no none was sure if it was going to be good even by the start of the season. Teams had to go solely off of tape on the kid because he couldn't work out for anyone.

Have you seen Cam Robinson play ? He's terrible. He'd fit right in our OL.

We also couldn't know Fant would get hurt. Then again, we also couldn't know Fant would be good or not either.

If it's me, with the state of our OL....I'd go after Ramcyk and take that chance. I honestly think Schneider is going off of what Pete and Cable tells them, which is that they have it handled. He seems smarter than that.

No, I sure haven't. Nor have I seen Pocic play either.

Sgt. Largent · Sep 25, 2017

Hawks46":19hngbiz said:
If it's me, with the state of our OL....I'd go after Ramcyk and take that chance. I honestly think Schneider is going off of what Pete and Cable tells them, which is that they have it handled. He seems smarter than that.

It's all about how Pete and John grade out players.

My guess is they didn't have Ramcyk graded as high as McDowell, therefore if they can acquire more picks by dropping down and STILL get McDowell who you had graded higher anyway..........AND is in another major position of need?

Then you do it.

I agree we need to do better drafting O-linemen, that's obvious, cause we stink at it. But we have/had other major positions of need, so you can't just hyper focus on not drafting Ramcyk without looking at the big picture and other major needs.

2_0_6 · Sep 25, 2017

While some GM's go to high end boutiques for their Olineman, we have a front office that prefers going to garage sales.

MontanaHawk05 · Sep 25, 2017

There were plenty of people on this board who were down on both Ramczyk and Robinson.

2_0_6 · Sep 25, 2017

MontanaHawk05":37dkyxye said:
There were plenty of people on this board who were down on both Ramczyk and Robinson.

Correct, but post draft seeing who we drafted I bet those same people were singing a different tune

Rat · Sep 25, 2017

McDowell is an absolute beast. His accident was unfortunate, but in a year or two when we have a defensive lineman with an All-Pro skillset on a second-round rookie contract, everyone will be calling the move genius. I wouldn't have wanted to pass that up for a guy like Ramczyk who looked stiff and limited. Good for him for playing well with the Falcons, but I'm not calling that a mistake yet.

Where we really missed an opportunity was not making a tradeup in 2016 when Laramy Tunsil and Taylor Decker were still available after the first dozen picks. Instead, we traded down (again), and took Ifedi, who absolutely blows. I understand why Schneider loves trading down; he built a championship team on that philosophy, but I think that success has made him a little myopic. There are only so many roster spots on the team, especially a deep team like this one, and thanks to guys lilke Schneider making trade-downs so trendy, some teams have gotten incredible deals on first round move-UPs in recent years.

mikeak · Sep 25, 2017

We needed Pass Rush

We HAD TO upgrade our OL

I hated the trading down. I was told in the draft threads how stupid I was since we got more 7 rounders...........

pittpnthrs · Sep 25, 2017

Hawks46":2t1wzf5i said:
Have you seen Cam Robinson play ? He's terrible. He'd fit right in our OL.

He's starting on a 2-1 club that just put up 44 yesterday. What am I missing here? If he's terrible, that doesnt say much about Pocic now does it?

Schneider's curious decision

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