The Most Important thing this Team Can Do for this Spring

ivotuk · Sep 26, 2017

Hire someone with a history of evaluating good Offensive Line Talent.

Because we don't have that person here. It has been one disaster after another since the beginning of Pete's tenure here. I don't know who that is, maybe Mike Shanahan? Scott McCloughan?

Maybe Ben Muth?

15 Sep 2017 Word of Muth: First Impressions

We're here to talk about the five guys up front for the Giants. And if we're going to talk about what went wrong, we need to start with Bobby Hart (68) at right tackle.

Take this screen play. As one of the guys staying in on a screen, you basically have to just get your ass kicked, but not too much. You want to let your man beat you upfield so he's out of the play, but you just can't let him do it too quickly. It's a pretty easy block and this is not how it's done.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-m ... mpressions

There was a great forecasting method for predicting successful NFL QBs called the Lewin Forecast. There must be some way to predict, with a high rate of success, (or even a decent rate), to predict which Offensive Linemen will have success in the NFL.

12 Mar 2012 Lewin Career Forecast 2012 by Aaron Schatz

The Asterisk
Russell Wilson, Wisconsin: 2,650 DYAR

Important stats: 48 games started, 60.7% completion rate, senior passer rating rose 64.1 points.

I would be remiss if I didn't at least mention the ridiculous projection that the Lewin Career Forecast spits out for Russell Wilson. Yes, that projection is even higher than the one for Robert Griffin. No, it doesn't particularly mean that Wilson is a sleeper prospect. There are a few things going on here that the LCF is just not designed to account for

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-dr ... cast-2012/

It just seems that there has to be someone out there with a history of scouting offensive linemen that the Seahawks could hire. Kearly, where are you?

Jville · Sep 26, 2017

What I see are the quicker and happier feet of a defender. The better athletes are playing ondefense. It's more evidence of a league wide mismatch. Better athletes on defense can dictate leverage. It's all good and well to look for offensive lineman with 34+ inch arms, but competitive feet are mandated by today's defenses as well. It is why many teams continue to look at conversion and development prospects.

I find what Football Outsiders does with logged statistics useful. But, I also think it noteworthy that while they have a bounty of hard stats to work with in the case of Quarterbacks, the same can not be said for any specific offensive lineman. Such differences in the quality of analysis is further aggravated when forecasting candidates to another system or scheme or league.

Those are my thoughts ...... and muchas gracias for all the links you routinely post. This is a richer forum because of you.

Marlin Man · Sep 26, 2017

Maybe Pete and John need to TRADE all of their picks for ONE pick as high as they can get, hire someone who CAN identify a great player (they sure as hell can NOT do it) and get us agood LT, then maybe we can sort thru all the deadwood we have (besides Britt) and come up with the rest of the line, and go from there

I kid you NOT..............................................

ivotuk · Sep 26, 2017

I'm a dreamer. And the College game does not make for good NFL Offensive Linemen. Plus, we never pick high enough to get Offensive Linemen like Taylor Lewan.

I think a better talent evaluator, because imho, they've done so poorly in the past, then STOP trying to teach them to play MULTIPLE positions ("We want versatile linemen") when they can't even play the one that they are assigned!

SIMPLIFY what you are teaching them! Again, mho, but I think they are trying to give these guys too much, too early!

PLAY THEM AT THEIR POSITION! Don't draft a Right Tackle, play him at Right Guard, then move him to Right Tackle the next year! What the hell is that?

Then you take your Left Guard, and throw him in at RIght Guard! He's barely making it at Left Guard!

It drives me nuts, because you see fans talking about what they think Cable should be doing, and slowly, as the years go by, they seem to be doing exactly what the fans have been clamoring for all these years!

Plus, the fans have made some great calls on drafting Offensive Linemen (as well as some horrible ones), and we've see them go on to have success, while we end up with horrible talent. Admittedly, a lot of the fans use information they find online, but some of those people who deal with the Draft (Rob Rang, Doub), are pretty good at it.

I'm not saying let the fans pick the players, but maybe, just maybe, they should review how they are choosing, and drafting linemen.

It's frustrating. But I'm still hopeful that this line will come together and be serviceable. Britt deserves it because he has worked his ass off during the off season, and he needs the guys to his left and to his right to start showing up.

Seymour · Sep 26, 2017

I asked the exact same thing last year.

Nothing new this season, business as usual.

Good luck with your request though.

I will just hope Cable takes Pete down too at this point.

sdog1981 · Sep 26, 2017

I wrote in depth about this very topic in 2015.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=118317&hilit=Philbin&p=1756130&view=show#p1756130

I want Joe Philbin as my number one pick for OC/OL coaching, unfortunately, he took over as the Colts Oline coach last season.

My second pick would be if the Seahawks want to continue with Bevell as the OC, if they do that then I think Joe Rudolph would be the best hire. He is the current OC/OLine coach at Wisconsin since he has taken over he took a no star recruit Ryan Ramczyk and turned him into a first-round draft pick and he turned Rob Havenstein from a three-star recruit into a second-round draft pick and a PFWA all-rookie first team in 2015. Rudolph played football with Bevell at Wisconsin and has many of the same ideas about how offensive football should be played.

My third pick is T.J. Woods he was the OL coach at Wisconsin when they pumped out the most Oline draft picks over the past five seasons. He was the Oline coach when Wilson was there so he is familiar with how he likes to play. When Woods took over as the Oline coach at Oregon State they had not had a lineman drafted since 2009 after Woods took over in 2015 they had one drafted in 2016 and 2017.

Russ Grimm: The current Oline coach for the Titans, he did not build the line but he got them working well together. He was passed over as a head coach twice with two different teams don't know if that is bad luck or a sign that he is better suited as a position coach.

Greg Studrawa: Current Oline coach at Ohio State was the Oline coach at LSU from 2007-2013. Those LSU teams would pound the rock and play solid defense this would be a Pete Carroll/Bevell dream come true.

Pie in the sky dreams for head coaches or OC

Josh McDaniels: Got a head coaching job too soon but history has proven he was right Jay Culter did not have the fire of a winner and WR Bradon Marshall is a drama king. He was fired because he did not have a QB would be interesting to see what his TE focused quick passing attack would look like with Wilson running it.

Nick Saban: One year young than Pete Carroll, don't know if wants to erase his NFL history with a new chapter like Pete did. Saban wanted Drew Brees to sign with Miami but the medical staff did not clear him. So it would be interesting to see Saban with team D talent and a good QB.

Jim Harbaugh: It would be an intense 4-year run but I feel he could get the team to a Superbowl at least once in four years before he pisses off everyone.

2_0_6 · Sep 26, 2017

Keep our 1st rounder and actually take the BPA

Jville · Sep 26, 2017

ivotuk":26tqvd09 said:
I'm a dreamer. And the College game does not make for good NFL Offensive Linemen. Plus, we never pick high enough to get Offensive Linemen like Taylor Lewan.

I think a better talent evaluator, because imho, they've done so poorly in the past, then STOP trying to teach them to play MULTIPLE positions ("We want versatile linemen") when they can't even play the one that they are assigned!

SIMPLIFY what you are teaching them! Again, mho, but I think they are trying to give these guys too much, too early!

PLAY THEM AT THEIR POSITION! Don't draft a Right Tackle, play him at Right Guard, then move him to Right Tackle the next year! What the hell is that?

Then you take your Left Guard, and throw him in at RIght Guard! He's barely making it at Left Guard!

It drives me nuts, because you see fans talking about what they think Cable should be doing, and slowly, as the years go by, they seem to be doing exactly what the fans have been clamoring for all these years!

Plus, the fans have made some great calls on drafting Offensive Linemen (as well as some horrible ones), and we've see them go on to have success, while we end up with horrible talent. Admittedly, a lot of the fans use information they find online, but some of those people who deal with the Draft (Rob Rang, Doub), are pretty good at it.

I'm not saying let the fans pick the players, but maybe, just maybe, they should review how they are choosing, and drafting linemen.

It's frustrating. But I'm still hopeful that this line will come together and be serviceable. Britt deserves it because he has worked his ass off during the off season, and he needs the guys to his left and to his right to start showing up.

I'm more pragmatic. But, I'm certainly open to changes in consensus.

We have heard it said that they look for unique traits. I'm not sure that has worked out all that well with the offensive line. We have seen exceptionally strong linemen who were vulnerable to opponent quickness. We saw that with Carpenter and just recently Glowinski. Carpenter has had good success in man schemes. Glowinski may as well if he eventually returns to a man scheme. On the other end of the spectrum, JR Sweezy was far too athletic and aggressive for the rest of the line to keep pace. Because of the mutual cooperation required among offensive linemen, I would think pursuing prospects with a better blend of traits might prove more fruitful.

Position theory holds that an offensive line is only as good as it's #5 lineman. Given that defenses thrive matching up their best lineman on the weakest offensive lineman, that seems to spotlight where the focus should be. As I see it, upgrading the #5 and #6 linemen are far more important than reaching for an expensive #1.

Better retention of average to good and affordable linemen may require some modification to current cap strategies. The team friendly extension of Justin Britt suggests that an on going change to the evolving cap model may have already begun. Surely better retention is now an elevated priority.

seahawkfreak · Sep 26, 2017

sdog1981":13naegyo said:
I wrote in depth about this very topic in 2015.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=118317&hilit=Philbin&p=1756130&view=show#p1756130

I want Joe Philbin as my number one pick for OC/OL coaching, unfortunately, he took over as the Colts Oline coach last season.

My second pick would be if the Seahawks want to continue with Bevell as the OC, if they do that then I think Joe Rudolph would be the best hire. He is the current OC/OLine coach at Wisconsin since he has taken over he took a no star recruit Ryan Ramczyk and turned him into a first-round draft pick and he turned Rob Havenstein from a three-star recruit into a second-round draft pick and a PFWA all-rookie first team in 2015. Rudolph played football with Bevell at Wisconsin and has many of the same ideas about how offensive football should be played.

My third pick is T.J. Woods he was the OL coach at Wisconsin when they pumped out the most Oline draft picks over the past five seasons. He was the Oline coach when Wilson was there so he is familiar with how he likes to play. When Woods took over as the Oline coach at Oregon State they had not had a lineman drafted since 2009 after Woods took over in 2015 they had one drafted in 2016 and 2017.

Russ Grimm: The current Oline coach for the Titans, he did not build the line but he got them working well together. He was passed over as a head coach twice with two different teams don't know if that is bad luck or a sign that he is better suited as a position coach.

Greg Studrawa: Current Oline coach at Ohio State was the Oline coach at LSU from 2007-2013. Those LSU teams would pound the rock and play solid defense this would be a Pete Carroll/Bevell dream come true.

Pie in the sky dreams for head coaches or OC

Josh McDaniels: Got a head coaching job too soon but history has proven he was right Jay Culter did not have the fire of a winner and WR Bradon Marshall is a drama king. He was fired because he did not have a QB would be interesting to see what his TE focused quick passing attack would look like with Wilson running it.

Nick Saban: One year young than Pete Carroll, don't know if wants to erase his NFL history with a new chapter like Pete did. Saban wanted Drew Brees to sign with Miami but the medical staff did not clear him. So it would be interesting to see Saban with team D talent and a good QB.

Jim Harbaugh: It would be an intense 4-year run but I feel he could get the team to a Superbowl at least once in four years before he pisses off everyone.

Nice write up, good info thanks. McDaniels most contributing factor to him being fired though was from the video scandal that took place on his watch.

WmHBonney · Sep 26, 2017

"Plus, we never pick high enough to get Offensive Linemen like Taylor Lewan. "
1) We COULD have picked one this year but we didn't.
2) The way we're going right now, we may be picking a hell of a lot higher than we have been these last few years.

Bobblehead · Sep 26, 2017

Marlin Man":11a2yodj said:
Maybe Pete and John need to TRADE all of their picks for ONE pick as high as they can get, hire someone who CAN identify a great player (they sure as hell can NOT do it) and get us agood LT, then maybe we can sort thru all the deadwood we have (besides Britt) and come up with the rest of the line, and go from there

I kid you NOT..............................................

I think I got killed once for suggesting that.

I"ve come to think the Hawks do what they do, to save CAP space. They are pretty confident, and rightly so, they had some great draft classes, and feel they can evaluate their needs correctly. Though, it's been a rough several years I'd say.

ludakrishna · Sep 27, 2017

We need to get away from the ZBS scheme. The D lineman today are too damn athletic. Under the ZBS, we try and dive towards their legs instead of actually blocking. The DL just jump over our guys and make the play. I want the I will draft the fattest and heaviest OL that will push you a few yards back just because of their size. None of this cute technique BS we've experimented with Cable over the last 5 years.

The Most Important thing this Team Can Do for this Spring

ivotuk

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Jville

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ivotuk

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Seymour

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sdog1981

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2_0_6

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Jville

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