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Liz Mathews: Avril could be out rest of season

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  • I've heard speculation elsewhere that it could be career ending due to nerve damage.
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    JSeahawks
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:http://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/10/seahawks-defensive-end-cliff-avril-could-be-out-for-rest-of-season/

    I don't think Pete explicitly raised that possibility, really, but he is being almost Malik-level cagey with Avril's prospects here. Stingers are no joke.


    Pete implied it. After saying he was getting it checked out he said then he can decide if he wants to come back, and we'll decide if we want him to come back. That certainly means not coming back is an option for both.

    I see nothing new there.
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  • It almost seems as if they are doing some testing to check for other possible health issues and this injury may have tipped the doctors off. I certainly hope it doesn't come to that but they are certainly being hush about it.
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  • I am just going to say it.

    I think that play was his last in the NFL. No inside scoop, just a gut feeling.

    God bless you Avril! Hell of a player and an even better human being.
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  • This is tough. However, if it was his last down....helluva hawk and ambassador.
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  • Why are we jumping to conclusions that it's possibly career ending. Stingers aren't usually super bad, no?
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  • Liz hedges with the word "could". Pete chooses not to speculate. The next opportunity for more information will come from the next test results. Until then, some will chose to speculate and some will chose not to speculate.

    Speculation thrives in information voids.
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  • NFSeahawks628 wrote:Why are we jumping to conclusions that it's possibly career ending. Stingers aren't usually super bad, no?


    As I understand it, a stinger is more pain / numbing in one arm or hand. Avril was having that in both, so it was thought it to be considerably worse than just a stinger.
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  • It sounds like it could be spinal stenosis which has ended careers before. Once the spine starts to narrow then a relatively minor blow to the same spot could cause paralysis. It can be totally reversible given time but I think it's a slow process.
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  • It's a very real possibility, so speculation is natural. He's 31, has had a couple good contracts, has a ring, a family to think about etc. If there's ANY chance it could be life threatening, he needs to retire.
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  • naholmes wrote:It sounds like it could be spinal stenosis which has ended careers before. Once the spine starts to narrow then a relatively minor blow to the same spot could cause paralysis. It can be totally reversible given time but I think it's a slow process.


    A surgical procedure can often resolve the pain......he still might not want to play again.
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  • I don't think they're being cagey, I just think they honestly don't know yet.

    I'd surmise it's pretty damn serious when Pete keeps saying they have to do some tests to figure out which direction to go. Also his mentioning Avril's future, family and quality of life going forward is pretty serious language to me.
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  • Aros wrote:I am just going to say it.

    I think that play was his last in the NFL. No inside scoop, just a gut feeling.

    God bless you Avril! Hell of a player and an even better human being.

    This...
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  • Let me preface this by saying that each person handles injuries differently, and heal at different rates. I have a plate and 6 screws fusing T1-C7-C6. The doctor entered through the front of the neck, just to the right side of my "windpipe." He "decompressed" the vertebrae, screwed in the plate, and closed it up. He told me to take it easy for a week while things healed, but I had very few restrictions.

    But it's different for every injury, how the injury happened, what area was injured, health of the person injured, etc, etc. So the information I just supplied is basically useless. Except that it gives me hope that Cliff Avril will play again in short order.

    Here's a link to a very good diagram of the spine, vertebrae, the areas effected relating to the vertebrae damaged, and possible symptoms.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/ec/d9 ... 60cb34.jpg
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  • ivotuk wrote:Let me preface this by saying that each person handles injuries differently, and heal at different rates. I have a plate and 6 screws fusing T1-C7-C6. The doctor entered through the front of the neck, just to the right side of my "windpipe." He "decompressed" the vertebrae, screwed in the plate, and closed it up. He told me to take it easy for a week while things healed, but I had very few restrictions.

    But it's different for every injury, how the injury happened, what area was injured, health of the person injured, etc, etc. So the information I just supplied is basically useless. Except that it gives me hope that Cliff Avril will play again in short order.

    Here's a link to a very good diagram of the spine, vertebrae, the areas effected relating to the vertebrae damaged, and possible symptoms.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/ec/d9 ... 60cb34.jpg


    I hear what you are saying and I don't know what you do for a living but Pro football is an outlier and normal protocols do not apply.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    NFSeahawks628 wrote:Why are we jumping to conclusions that it's possibly career ending. Stingers aren't usually super bad, no?


    As I understand it, a stinger is more pain / numbing in one arm or hand. Avril was having that in both, so it was thought it to be considerably worse than just a stinger.



    Spent a year playing with one before quitting football (diagnosed and follow ups with the Raiders’ team doctor at the time) and it was both arms. Numbness down arms and fingers, couldn’t lift my arms above my shoulders without sever pain by the end of games, and overall just an awful experience. 20 years later and I still have neck problems from it, avoid military press, etc. (although I suspect that’s because I played on it all year and had a POS coach feeding me pain killers rather than sitting me down).

    In any case, yeah, more pain than anything else and not a problem long term if treated appropriately, but can be both arms too.
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  • I know someone who had a similar injury. Problem is nerves take forever to heal..very small length at a time. The person I know was dealing with it for a couple years
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  • Cyrus12 wrote:I know someone who had a similar injury. Problem is nerves take forever to heal..very small length at a time. The person I know was dealing with it for a couple years


    IIRC, it is about a mm per day. A 36 inch arm is a few inches short of a meter, which is what 39.37 inches. Anyhow, a meter is 1000 mm, so 730 - 1000 days to get back to your fingertips.

    Research with rats revealed that the narcotic antagonist drug naloxone, or maybe naltrexone, greatly reduced swelling of pinched nerves. But I have no idea if this research got picked up, and taught to med students.

    DMSO would probably also help. Bobblehead reported that he uses it for his plantar fascitis which Bennett has.

    Stemcells would probably accelerate healing. Mark Darrow, Assistant Professor at UCLA Med School uses these, and has a sports medicine clinic. I never figured out where the Regenix clinic was. Anyone know?
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  • HawkerD wrote:
    ivotuk wrote:Let me preface this by saying that each person handles injuries differently, and heal at different rates. I have a plate and 6 screws fusing T1-C7-C6. The doctor entered through the front of the neck, just to the right side of my "windpipe." He "decompressed" the vertebrae, screwed in the plate, and closed it up. He told me to take it easy for a week while things healed, but I had very few restrictions.

    But it's different for every injury, how the injury happened, what area was injured, health of the person injured, etc, etc. So the information I just supplied is basically useless. Except that it gives me hope that Cliff Avril will play again in short order.

    Here's a link to a very good diagram of the spine, vertebrae, the areas effected relating to the vertebrae damaged, and possible symptoms.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/eb/ec/d9 ... 60cb34.jpg


    I hear what you are saying and I don't know what you do for a living but Pro football is an outlier and normal protocols do not apply.


    Like I said in my post, it's just information, and may be useless as far as Cliff is concerned.

    I used to be a bush pilot and big game guide. Packing too much weight for miles, loading 300 pound rafts in a C-185 on floats, operating and maintaining heavy equipment. Where we were, you did everything yourself because there wasn't anyone else.

    Of course there is all kinds of treatments, but none of them remove the pain for very long. Steroid injections, Radio Frequency Ablation (burn the nerves out but they grow back), Laminectomy (cleaning nerve pathways), Decompression with metal, screws, and bone material added to strengthen the fusion. My back looks like it should have a zipper on it.

    But again, like I said, it's just injury information, and may be completely useless when considering on the field injuries.
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  • NFSeahawks628 wrote:Why are we jumping to conclusions that it's possibly career ending. Stingers aren't usually super bad, no?


    Not always. Remember the RT Holmgren drafted, McIntosh I think, that never really played for us? He got a neck stinger and was never able to make it back. Stingers are no joke, sometimes they have a nasty habit of not going away.
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  • I had one in my lower back 32 years ago and I feel it almost every day of my life
    This @#$%^ for real and can be a problem for the rest of your life but every situation's different so either way
    Good luck Cliff and wish you the best whatever you do
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    NFSeahawks628 wrote:Why are we jumping to conclusions that it's possibly career ending. Stingers aren't usually super bad, no?


    As I understand it, a stinger is more pain / numbing in one arm or hand. Avril was having that in both, so it was thought it to be considerably worse than just a stinger.



    Spent a year playing with one before quitting football (diagnosed and follow ups with the Raiders’ team doctor at the time) and it was both arms. Numbness down arms and fingers, couldn’t lift my arms above my shoulders without sever pain by the end of games, and overall just an awful experience. 20 years later and I still have neck problems from it, avoid military press, etc. (although I suspect that’s because I played on it all year and had a POS coach feeding me pain killers rather than sitting me down).

    In any case, yeah, more pain than anything else and not a problem long term if treated appropriately, but can be both arms too.


    Good info man. Thanks.
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  • We still don't know everything but what I heard post game was enough to suspect season ending at least and with that I said he likely played his last game with the Hawks.

    If he comes back this season it would be gravy.
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  • What a freak thing to happen to cause an injury like this. He got clipped in the head by one of Brissett's feet didn't he? In any case, I hope Cliff heals well and gets the best advice he can get when it comes to his playing career.
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  • The way the injury happened, it is pretty clear that it aggravated something that was already there, he just didn't know it, or at least didn't know how big of a problem it is. It was more than a stinger, and my gut feeling is that his career is finished. I think he will ultimately be cleared to play, but I doubt he will want to come back.

    It was scary to watch, and I'm sure it was even scarier to experience. He has had a stellar career, his family should be set for life by now, and there is really no reason to risk permanent paralysis at this point.

    Now, I haven't seen the films, so perhaps his underlying problem isn't as severe as I suspect, just going on an educated hunch
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  • NFSeahawks628 wrote:Why are we jumping to conclusions that it's possibly career ending. Stingers aren't usually super bad, no?

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