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To those who think the OL isn't dramatically improving

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  • Duane is still learning how to play with a QB like Russell. Couple plays it was clear he expected Russ to step forward and instead he spun away and back, making it look like he was beat. He has been very impressive so far though and I imagine a full off season with him teaching the youngins will be huge.

    Side note - Lane Johnson is a really, really good RT for the Eagles. He was on an island against Michael Bennett and held his own. Their whole line is really good in general and the Hawks still had some insane pressure all night.
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  • Luke Joeckel was awful on Seattle's second drive. He was improving before his injury but may need to shake off some rust again. Superior in the run game, tho.
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  • Pay Brown whatever he wants. We can't go back to Fant/Odhiambo.....................WE CAN'T............WE WON'T!!!
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Luke Joeckel was awful on Seattle's second drive. He was improving before his injury but may need to shake off some rust again. Superior in the run game, tho.


    He got canned hard at least once. He got better as the game went on though.
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  • I am not necessarily down on the players but more the scheme. I stated before when 2-3 guys come in untouched consistently there is either a severe communication problem and or a scheme problem. I vote for a bad scheme. What is interesting is Cable may be good at coaching up layers but obviously horrible a calling line plays.
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  • I do think the OL is improving, mostly because of the play of Brown and Pocic. The problem is that Joeckel and Ifedi are still rubbish. But, at least that is only two trash players instead of four. So yeah, that's improvement!

    I think the bottom line here is that Cable is unable to adequately judge young talent. Duane Brown was a no brainer, JS didn't need anyone else to tell him that. Jury is still out on Pocic but I think the kid has potential and is already better than Ifedi, Glowinski and Joeckel. He's at least passable, which is a huge upgrade!

    I think if we can focus on getting quality FA's like Brown, and shying away from trash like Joeckel, we can turn this line around right quick. Until we get someone else to evaluate draft talent on the OL, though, I would refrain from drafting anyone else on the OL.

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  • Pass protection definitely seems better. They were always going to struggle against a front as talented and well coached as the Eagles', but they held up well enough. Man, Joeckel got ragdolled at least twice when Brandon Graham rushed from the interior against him.
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  • adeltaY wrote:Pass protection definitely seems better. They were always going to struggle against a front as talented and well coached as the Eagles', but they held up well enough. Man, Joeckel got ragdolled at least twice when Brandon Graham rushed from the interior against him.


    Exactly, and it made Brown look bad at times. Brown was doing his job in terms of guiding his rusher well to the outside, but Russ had to retreat so far back because Joeckel was getting ragdolled. If Joeckel could stand his ground, Russ could step up and Brown would create a nice pocket for him. Of course that assumes Ifedi does his job as well, which is a stretch...
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  • xgeoff wrote:I do think the OL is improving, mostly because of the play of Brown and Pocic. The problem is that Joeckel and Ifedi are still rubbish. But, at least that is only two trash players instead of four. So yeah, that's improvement!

    I think the bottom line here is that Cable is unable to adequately judge young talent. Duane Brown was a no brainer, JS didn't need anyone else to tell him that. Jury is still out on Pocic but I think the kid has potential and is already better than Ifedi, Glowinski and Joeckel. He's at least passable, which is a huge upgrade!

    I think if we can focus on getting quality FA's like Brown, and shying away from trash like Joeckel, we can turn this line around right quick. Until we get someone else to evaluate draft talent on the OL, though, I would refrain from drafting anyone else on the OL.

    Oh, and Fire Tom Cable. FIRE...TOM....CABLE!


    This looks like most offensive line post on dot net, calling players rubbish and trash and our staff is not able to evaluate talent, the always classic fire Cable in all caps for affect, do you just cut and past these posts from the previous weeks thread or write a new one? Players get beaten in every game, do I see improvement, hell yes I do. :irishdrinkers:
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  • 907Hawk wrote:
    xgeoff wrote:I do think the OL is improving, mostly because of the play of Brown and Pocic. The problem is that Joeckel and Ifedi are still rubbish. But, at least that is only two trash players instead of four. So yeah, that's improvement!

    I think the bottom line here is that Cable is unable to adequately judge young talent. Duane Brown was a no brainer, JS didn't need anyone else to tell him that. Jury is still out on Pocic but I think the kid has potential and is already better than Ifedi, Glowinski and Joeckel. He's at least passable, which is a huge upgrade!

    I think if we can focus on getting quality FA's like Brown, and shying away from trash like Joeckel, we can turn this line around right quick. Until we get someone else to evaluate draft talent on the OL, though, I would refrain from drafting anyone else on the OL.

    Oh, and Fire Tom Cable. FIRE...TOM....CABLE!


    This looks like most offensive line post on dot net, calling players rubbish and trash and our staff is not able to evaluate talent, the always classic fire Cable in all caps for affect, do you just cut and past these posts from the previous weeks thread or write a new one? Players get beaten in every game, do I see improvement, hell yes I do. :irishdrinkers:


    LOL, this is original content, not just cut and paste! And I fully acknowledge improvement on the Line from Duane Brown and Ethan Pocic. And there is a lot of evidence to support the general feelings about the line, some of it statistical and some of it just anecdotal.

    But here is what I know: we have spent a ton of draft capital on line talent that just hasn't worked out: Glowinski, Poole, Ifedi, Carpenter, Odhiambo, etc. Who does that talent eval? I am assuming it is Cable, do you know otherwise?

    And yes, other teams have OL problems. Like Baltimore, who is generally thought to have a poor Offensive Line. Have you seen them play? Night and day compared to ours. Night and day. And look at Alex Collins run behind that poor OL in Baltimore. He looks like a superstar. What did he look like here? Not much.

    So here's the thing. You can see improvement with the line. I see it too. But if you're telling me that Joeckel and Ifedi are anything other than trash, I think you're just not paying close attention to the line play, nor are you watching games around the league to see how other teams play.

    I am watching, I am evaluating, I am giving credit where credit is due (ie Good job Duane Brown and Ethan Pocic). And I see some very poor play and some very poor coaching in this unit.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Pay Brown whatever he wants. We can't go back to Fant/Odhiambo.....................WE CAN'T............WE WON'T!!!
    To hard on Fant without seeing him.
    Remember Fant was an undrafted rookie a project they were high on him I would have liked to have seen him his 2nd year, He was definitely better than Sowell and Bradley last year. If Fant can come back strong then him and Brown will start at the tackle spots next year may turn out nice. Ifedi and Pocic at guards also I think with his experience ODHIAMBO may work out at his most natural position guard,. He lacks the stuff for tackle.
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  • :3-1:
    hawknation2017 wrote:

    Also finally the run game with our backs is actually showing a pulse.
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  • xgeoff wrote:
    907Hawk wrote:
    xgeoff wrote:I do think the OL is improving, mostly because of the play of Brown and Pocic. The problem is that Joeckel and Ifedi are still rubbish. But, at least that is only two trash players instead of four. So yeah, that's improvement!

    I think the bottom line here is that Cable is unable to adequately judge young talent. Duane Brown was a no brainer, JS didn't need anyone else to tell him that. Jury is still out on Pocic but I think the kid has potential and is already better than Ifedi, Glowinski and Joeckel. He's at least passable, which is a huge upgrade!

    I think if we can focus on getting quality FA's like Brown, and shying away from trash like Joeckel, we can turn this line around right quick. Until we get someone else to evaluate draft talent on the OL, though, I would refrain from drafting anyone else on the OL.

    Oh, and Fire Tom Cable. FIRE...TOM....CABLE!


    This looks like most offensive line post on dot net, calling players rubbish and trash and our staff is not able to evaluate talent, the always classic fire Cable in all caps for affect, do you just cut and past these posts from the previous weeks thread or write a new one? Players get beaten in every game, do I see improvement, hell yes I do. :irishdrinkers:


    LOL, this is original content, not just cut and paste! And I fully acknowledge improvement on the Line from Duane Brown and Ethan Pocic. And there is a lot of evidence to support the general feelings about the line, some of it statistical and some of it just anecdotal.

    But here is what I know: we have spent a ton of draft capital on line talent that just hasn't worked out: Glowinski, Poole, Ifedi, Carpenter, Odhiambo, etc. Who does that talent eval? I am assuming it is Cable, do you know otherwise?

    And yes, other teams have OL problems. Like Baltimore, who is generally thought to have a poor Offensive Line. Have you seen them play? Night and day compared to ours. Night and day. And look at Alex Collins run behind that poor OL in Baltimore. He looks like a superstar. What did he look like here? Not much.

    So here's the thing. You can see improvement with the line. I see it too. But if you're telling me that Joeckel and Ifedi are anything other than trash, I think you're just not paying close attention to the line play, nor are you watching games around the league to see how other teams play.

    I am watching, I am evaluating, I am giving credit where credit is due (ie Good job Duane Brown and Ethan Pocic). And I see some very poor play and some very poor coaching in this unit.


    I was mostly referring to the general tone of the post. As far as the players go and the evaluation process, the players you named range over a 7 year period and conveniently leave out guys who have been fairly decent NFL players, also not ready to give up on Ifedi as a player and would never call an NFL player trash as I don't believe it is warranted. I have watched the Ravens play several times this year, they ran the ball 9 straight times on a drive in the 4th Quarter to close out a win against the Raiders, AC was running through gaping holes. I would love to see the Hawks play this type of football again.
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  • tersal wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Pay Brown whatever he wants. We can't go back to Fant/Odhiambo.....................WE CAN'T............WE WON'T!!!
    To hard on Fant without seeing him.
    Remember Fant was an undrafted rookie a project they were high on him I would have liked to have seen him his 2nd year, He was definitely better than Sowell and Bradley last year. If Fant can come back strong then him and Brown will start at the tackle spots next year may turn out nice. Ifedi and Pocic at guards also I think with his experience ODHIAMBO may work out at his most natural position guard,. He lacks the stuff for tackle.


    I saw him, all of last year.

    Don't cloud your judgement on Fant because he hasn't played all year forgetting that he was one of the worst LT's in the league last year.

    He's nowhere near the LT that Brown is, and probably never will be. Doesn't mean Fant doesn't have value as a backup on this team, but Brown is a top 5-7 LT, pay the man as such and lets get back to running the damn football and not having Russell run for his life 80% of the time.
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  • Each individual player and the o-line as a single unit will continue to get better the more they play together. They start to know each other's moves and start to trust each other. It's important to figure out who your starters are, then let them get reps/game exp together as early as possible. The new guy looks like a great acquisition! Is Schneid a genuis, or what? He also got Richardson. With 3/4s of the LOB out, these moves and others are starting to look like season-savers.
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  • O-Line is better - but then again, hard to get much worse than it was.

    It might gel into something consistently competent next season. I hope so. RW could really shine with some more trust in his guys to give him a little time - though to be fair, sometimes he squirts out of the pocket a second or two too soon but I don't blame him after the trauma of last season and earlier this season.
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  • I can't wait to see Fant next year- with him learning from Big Walt.
    I think he will be better the Ifedi for sure.
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  • All I Know is that some of the offensive line need to study Lane Johnson.. that guy was beasting.. made Bennett look like a rag doll.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Pay Brown whatever he wants. We can't go back to Fant/Odhiambo.....................WE CAN'T............WE WON'T!!!
    To hard on Fant without seeing him.
    Remember Fant was an undrafted rookie a project they were high on him I would have liked to have seen him his 2nd year, He was definitely better than Sowell and Bradley last year. If Fant can come back strong then him and Brown will start at the tackle spots next year may turn out nice. Ifedi and Pocic at guards also I think with his experience ODHIAMBO may work out at his most natural position guard,. He lacks the stuff for tackle.


    I saw him, all of last year.

    Don't cloud your judgement on Fant because he hasn't played all year forgetting that he was one of the worst LT's in the league last year.

    He's nowhere near the LT that Brown is, and probably never will be. Doesn't mean Fant doesn't have value as a backup on this team, but Brown is a top 5-7 LT, pay the man as such and lets get back to running the damn football and not having Russell run for his life 80% of the time.

    I am not comparing Brown and Fant my point is he was a rookie project.
    There are plenty of NFL stories were players improve dramatically over an off-season. I understand he muscledup and worked with Walter Jones also for what it is worth Joeckel was penciled in as the starting LT Fant beat him out. Again for what it is worth.
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  • You just need to see how Brown blocks the DL in front of him. It is not even close. The guy is a pro. It is just amazing the difference between Brown and the other guys. I wonder what if Brown was brought in earlier in the year.
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  • It's another huge test this week for the OL.

    Jacksonville's edge rushers Calais Campbell and Yannick Ngakoue each have over 10 sacks and 40 pressures.

    They move Campbell all over the place. He plays both RDE and LDE, depending on the matchup, and they use him inside, like we do with Bennett. That is when I think he will be the most difficult to block: when he is matched up inside with one of our guards. He uses power and bullrushes, which our guards have struggled with. They also use a lot of stunts.

    Ngakoue is highly active and quick. He poses huge challenges for a tackle like Germain Ifedi, who does not possess ideal lateral agility. Ngakoue is very fast off the ball, like Cliff Avril used to be. But he also has a diversity of pass rushing moves in his arsenal. He likes to fake like he's going wide outside and then sharply cuts inside to generate pressure.

    Many of Jacksonville's sacks this year have been "coverage sacks." Campbell is very deliberate in working into the backfield.

    If receivers are covered downfield, Russell could have a big game scrambling or dumping the ball off on screens.
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  • I read where we went from 30th in Pass Pro to 8th.

    8th!!

    Let that settle in folks.

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  • Aros wrote:I read where we went from 30th in Pass Pro to 8th.

    8th!!

    Let that settle in folks.

    :2thumbs:


    I am happy to hear that. I hope they can keep that up. :2thumbs:
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  • I hope we run the ball against Ngakoue as much as possible. He is a little light and sometimes overly eager to run into the backfield, giving up contain. I like the matchup of Brown or Ifedi vs. Ngakoue in the run game.
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  • If they can keep everyone healthy the rest of the season and pound some sense into Ifedi's head about false starts and other piss poor play he seems to display, we will do some great things I think/hope.

    At the end of the season Ifedi needs to go though, he has proven to be a bust and if we could maybe get a case of urinal cakes for him in a trade, we should take it. (the men's room near my section was SMELLY BAD at the game last night, loots of hot beer being recycled)

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  • Jaguars DE Dante Fowler has also had problems keeping contain.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Pay Brown whatever he wants. We can't go back to Fant/Odhiambo.....................WE CAN'T............WE WON'T!!!

    Agreed. Brown has been ca$h money. If Fant is as good as they say he is, he can play other spots on the line.
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  • They also went back to the Power run scheme periodically, it was where Davis got his big run in fact. Pulling Guards and a wall off of the DE.
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  • mistaowen wrote:Duane is still learning how to play with a QB like Russell. Couple plays it was clear he expected Russ to step forward and instead he spun away and back, making it look like he was beat. He has been very impressive so far though and I imagine a full off season with him teaching the youngins will be huge.

    Side note - Lane Johnson is a really, really good RT for the Eagles. He was on an island against Michael Bennett and held his own. Their whole line is really good in general and the Hawks still had some insane pressure all night.


    Agreed...I watched that matchup and Lane pretty much had his way with Michael the whole game. Dude is a stud. We need a couple like him.
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  • I know it’s not always a great indicator of talent but did you guys notice the PFF ranks they had for those Eagles o-lineman. It was like 2nd, 3rd, 2nd from the center to the left. And the d still got some pressure. Positives on both lines last night.
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  • HAWKAMANIA wrote:I know it’s not always a great indicator of talent but did you guys notice the PFF ranks they had for those Eagles o-lineman. It was like 2nd, 3rd, 2nd from the center to the left. And the d still got some pressure. Positives on both lines last night.


    Plus their starting LT Jason Peters was 1st or 2nd before blowing out his knee. Their line is very good, some of the run blocking was the best I had seen in a long time. Frank Clark had his way with their backup though.
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  • I wish I could recall who said it but one of the former players on prime said Cables zbs was pretty much blown up by rules changes the league made three seasons ago.
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  • brimsalabim wrote:I wish I could recall who said it but one of the former players on prime said Cables zbs was pretty much blown up by rules changes the league made three seasons ago.


    I thought it was just last season. Something about cut blocks, which we've seen almost none of this year.
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  • Our O-line is improving so much I could damn near cry.
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  • PlinytheCenter wrote:
    mistaowen wrote:Duane is still learning how to play with a QB like Russell. Couple plays it was clear he expected Russ to step forward and instead he spun away and back, making it look like he was beat. He has been very impressive so far though and I imagine a full off season with him teaching the youngins will be huge.

    Side note - Lane Johnson is a really, really good RT for the Eagles. He was on an island against Michael Bennett and held his own. Their whole line is really good in general and the Hawks still had some insane pressure all night.


    Agreed...I watched that matchup and Lane pretty much had his way with Michael the whole game. Dude is a stud. We need a couple like him.


    Gonna stick up for Bennett here. The dude is playing through major pain in one of his feet and was going against arguable the best RT in the league. I think he did a good job in the run game and was actually pushing Lane Johnson back into Wentz's lap a couple times. Lane Johnson is the kind of guy who can take on Von Miller in single blocking and blank him. I'm proud of how hard Bennett fought against an athletically superior and healthier opponent.
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  • We still don't have a 100 yard rusher on the entire season. That's dreadful. We might be the only team in the league. Especially when that is allegedly Cables forte.

    As far as pass pro, Brown alone could bring that number up.

    The main issue I have with PFF rankings is how they are formulated? Specifically the OL. What metrics are they using? With Wilson at QB I honestly don't see how they can measure it one way or another. Brown "gave up" a sack that was totally on Wilson dropping back rather than stepping up. How does PFF calculate that?
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  • When you watch analysist break our line down really only Brown is getting better.
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  • brimsalabim wrote:When you watch analysist break our line down really only Brown is getting better.


    Depends on which analyst. Brian Baldinger is taking the whole thing really personally and also has a bad habit of cherry-picking the line's worst plays.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    brimsalabim wrote:When you watch analysist break our line down really only Brown is getting better.


    Depends on which analyst. Brian Baldinger is taking the whole thing really personally and also has a bad habit of cherry-picking the line's worst plays.


    Well that should leave him plenty of time to write his comments, it's like pick a play and you will find something glaring.
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