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Neil deGrass Tyson Lateral was legit Galilean Transformation

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  • Neil deGrasse Tyson
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    FYI: The lateral that @DangeRussWilson threw to @MikeDavisRB in Sunday’s @Seahawks @Eagles game was a legit “Galilean Transformation”. In their reference frame, the ball went backwards. It’s not their fault they ran forward faster than the ball.



    http://www.seahawks.com/news/2017/12/05 ... ks-lateral
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  • Wow awesome that he responded. I guess Eagles Fans can now stop whining about that. :D
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  • Break out your matrices, kids. We're gonna have to do some linear algebra here.
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  • Let me see if I understand this.

    If Russell was running at let's say 10mph, the ball is also going 10mph. Russell can then throw the ball backwards, but if he doesn't throw the ball back at a rate greater than 10mph, the ball will continue to move forward due to it's previous momentum?

    Though, it's still an illegal pass according to the rulebook.
    Last edited by Trrrroy on Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Aaaaaaaand Tyson loses MORE credibility.


    Flat earther, huh?
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  • rossob wrote:Wow awesome that he responded. I guess Eagles Fans can now stop whining about that. :D




    Not to mention a large contingent of .net who were (and continue to be) pretty snotty about claiming to be "right" :roll:

    Its an interesting topic with lots of grey area. Cool to here this guy's side to it :D
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  • Trrrroy wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Aaaaaaaand Tyson loses MORE credibility.


    Flat earther, huh?


    No, but do you have a minute to talk about the lizard people?
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  • bmorepunk wrote:Break out your matrices, kids. We're gonna have to do some linear algebra here.

    I don't think that would cover it. We're into calculus on this one. Linear algebra can't deduce these types of trajectories. Remember that only in old "Newtonian" physics is anything actually at rest. In the new relativity, everything is moving. :)
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  • Great! I'm sure a Patriots fan can come in here and explain how the Ideal Gas Law played into this phenomenon as well.
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  • Trrrroy wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Aaaaaaaand Tyson loses MORE credibility.


    Flat earther, huh?


    lol
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  • I have an idea: Can we petition Godell to add this Galilean Transformation into the NFL Rule book? And by the way, make it non-reviewable. Meaning, if your team is screwed because of it, then too bad !!!
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  • This is messing with my head....time to move on! :D
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  • Trrrroy wrote:Let me see if I understand this.

    If Russell was running at let's say 10mph, the ball is also going 10mph. Russell can then throw the ball backwards, but if he doesn't throw the ball back at a rate greater than 10mph, the ball will continue to move forward due to it's previous momentum?

    Though, it's still an illegal pass according to the rulebook.


    Yep. Ball has to be thrown with greater force than momentum, thus keeping it at the point of release or further back, rather than allowing momentum to carry it forward, even if it's going forward slower than the players are. So yeah, should have been challenged. Wasn't. Could have been changed. Wasn't. We lucked out on a play with some gray area in it, as the play was very close. They had a chance to take that away from us and didn't. Their loss.

    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Aaaaaaaand Tyson loses MORE credibility.


    Well yeah, because he explained the physics, but not as it pertained to the actual NFL rule. He's certainly not a very knowledgeable NFL fan. And his physics is mostly pop science, as I've seen it.
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  • More to it than throwing it faster than momentum. First off, any throw / pitch will most likely be faster than the runner no matter what. Top speed for humans around 25 mpg, the ball would drop out of the air under that. The ANGLE the ball is thrown at is the key. The faster you run, the more you'll need to increase the angle closer to 180 degrees behind you. The other variable is the distance from the QB that the trailing back is at. The further away from the QB, the greater the angle of the throw back also needs to be.
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  • Seymour wrote:More to it than throwing it faster than momentum. First off, any throw / pitch will most likely be faster than the runner no matter what. Top speed for humans around 25 mpg, the ball would drop out of the air under that. The ANGLE the ball is thrown at is the key. The faster you run, the more you'll need to increase the angle closer to 180 degrees behind you. The other variable is the distance from the QB that the trailing back is at. The further away from the QB, the greater the angle of the throw back also needs to be.


    You're exactly right and this is why the rule should be changed so that as long as the angle that the ball leaves the player's hand is behind them (91 degrees or greater I think) then the lateral should be legal. Maybe that's what the rule is already saying, it's a bit fuzzy the way the rule is written and needs some editing in my opinion. I suppose the other option is to change the rule to require a player to come to a complete stop before they are allowed to lateral, which would be lame but easy for a player to understand and calculate at least.
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  • SCIENCEEEEEE
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  • Trrrroy wrote:Let me see if I understand this.

    If Russell was running at let's say 10mph, the ball is also going 10mph. Russell can then throw the ball backwards, but if he doesn't throw the ball back at a rate greater than 10mph, the ball will continue to move forward due to it's previous momentum?

    Though, it's still an illegal pass according to the rulebook.


    Yes but continuing to move forward is not an issue.

    If he throws it directly backwards it would now have a distance it needs to make up for as it travels forward. So it matters also how far the ball goes as it keeps going forward
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  • sutz wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:Break out your matrices, kids. We're gonna have to do some linear algebra here.

    I don't think that would cover it. We're into calculus on this one. Linear algebra can't deduce these types of trajectories. Remember that only in old "Newtonian" physics is anything actually at rest. In the new relativity, everything is moving. :)


    I'm pretty sure that Relativity applies more to speeds closer to the Speed of Light, and Newtonian physics covers objects moving at speeds much slower than that.

    But it's a cool response, and way to bring science in to football Neil :2thumbs:
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  • Trrrroy wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Aaaaaaaand Tyson loses MORE credibility.


    Flat earther, huh?


    Nailed it.
    Thomas Paine: To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead
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  • so when is the damn NFL going to comment on if that was a missed call or a proper play?!
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  • sutz wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:Break out your matrices, kids. We're gonna have to do some linear algebra here.

    I don't think that would cover it. We're into calculus on this one. Linear algebra can't deduce these types of trajectories. Remember that only in old "Newtonian" physics is anything actually at rest. In the new relativity, everything is moving. :)


    For the purposes of the things that matter, I think the Galilean action holds here; if you over-physics it, you can get to the Poincare stuff, but it's a good approximation for the problem. I'm lazy and will avoid doing anything with differential math as much as possible. Also, pi is 3.
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