Ladanian Tomlinson breaks down Gurley vs. Seahawks

hawknation2017 · Dec 23, 2017

http://www.therams.com/videos/videos/Fi ... c5b7c83ffa

A note on zone blocking: It's interesting that this myth exists that the zone blocking scheme (ZBS) is dead, considering the teams that have shredded us the most on the ground have most been ZBS teams.

The #1 scoring offense in the NFL this years is a ZBS offense. Rams HC Sean McVay and offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur use mostly zone blocking with occasional man blocking in short-yardage situations.

When Atlanta was the #1 offense last year, they were also running ZBS. In addition, the #1 total offense this year, the New Orleans Saints, are also a mostly ZBS team.

The four best rushing offenses in the NFL this season (according to DVOA) are mostly ZBS running attacks: New Orleans, Green Bay, Kansas City, and Dallas. The Cowboys use both zone blocking and power concepts, but most of their running plays utilize the ZBS (specifically, the outside zone run).

So why does this anti-ZBS groupthink exist? When I played offensive tackle, we only knew man blocking, so that is my personal preference. But to claim the ZBS is not incredibly effective today seems foolhardy.

pittpnthrs · Dec 23, 2017

The biggest question is why arent we successful in using it?

hawkfan68 · Dec 23, 2017

The ZBS is not dead..the way Tom Cable uses it and teaches players is dead though. There's quite a bit of evidence that his way to use ZBS is not working the past 3 seasons.

hawknation2017 · Dec 23, 2017

pittpnthrs":2tx4skhq said:
The biggest question is why arent we successful in using it?

Because we need a decent RB? Eddie Lacy and Thomas Rawls suck, and Prosise is made of glass.

From 2012-15, the Seahawks had a Top 5 rushing attack every year.

hawkfan68":2tx4skhq said:
The ZBS is not dead..the way Tom Cable uses it and teaches players is dead though. There's quite a bit of evidence that his way to use ZBS is not working the past 3 seasons.

Correction: two seasons of incredibly poor running back play and injuries. In 2015, the Seahawks had the #1 DVOA offense and #3 rushing attack. They were less than one rushing yard per game behind #2 Carolina.

Thomas Rawls has been horrible since his rookie season in 2015 and probably won't make the roster next year.

FidelisHawk · Dec 23, 2017

Because since the Seahawks use ZBS and can’t run the ball, apparently, without Marshawn.

It then, obviously, stand to reason they do so is because Pete is over the hill, the NFL has passed him by, and he’s too stubborn to change, Bevell can’t call plays and Cable needs to be fired.

Oh, and Schneider can’t draft linemen or running backs unless Scot McCloughan is on staff to advise him. :sarcasm_off:

hawknation2017 · Dec 23, 2017

hawknation2017":2lgkw0fz said:
http://www.therams.com/videos/videos/Film-Study-How-Todd-Gurley-dominated-running-outside-zone-against-the-Seahawks/efc54672-8bed-488d-9cb7-d8c5b7c83ffa

McDougald was blocked out way too easily on some of those runs. Come back, Kam.

cymatica · Dec 23, 2017

Most of our zone runs involved someone shooting the gap and getting penetration too quickly, almost as if the defense knows the play before our players do.

pittpnthrs · Dec 23, 2017

hawknation2017":302v9w3c said:
pittpnthrs":302v9w3c said:

The biggest question is why arent we successful in using it?

Click to expand...

Because we need a decent RB? Eddie Lacy and Thomas Rawls suck, and Prosise is made of glass.

From 2012-15, the Seahawks had a Top 5 rushing attack every year.

How many RB's do they need to try out and go through before realizing it might not be the players? Its sad that we as fans get excited when Carson or Davis runs for 40 or 50 yards in a game.

2012-15 we had Lynch and a Rawls that was running while the offense was wide open. Funny how we went back to the same crap scheme in 2016 and havent been able to run since.

Subzero717 · Dec 23, 2017

hawknation2017":1uq67wox said:
pittpnthrs":1uq67wox said:

The biggest question is why arent we successful in using it?

Click to expand...

Because we need a decent RB? Eddie Lacy and Thomas Rawls suck, and Prosise is made of glass.

From 2012-15, the Seahawks had a Top 5 rushing attack every year.

hawkfan68":1uq67wox said:

The ZBS is not dead..the way Tom Cable uses it and teaches players is dead though. There's quite a bit of evidence that his way to use ZBS is not working the past 3 seasons.

Click to expand...

Correction: two seasons of incredibly poor running back play and injuries. In 2015, the Seahawks had the #1 DVOA offense and #3 rushing attack. They were less than one rushing yard per game behind #2 Carolina.

Thomas Rawls has been horrible since his rookie season in 2015 and probably won't make the roster next year.

So every back we have sucks and every back that sucked here leaves and does well but it is the back fault?

I will say its not completely one or the others issue but we have invested draft capitol, switched RB coaches and RBs.

We had an elite back that led the league in YAC and two guys we should have kept.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Subzero717 · Dec 23, 2017

hawknation2017":1vif8jlu said:
http://www.therams.com/videos/videos/Film-Study-How-Todd-Gurley-dominated-running-outside-zone-against-the-Seahawks/efc54672-8bed-488d-9cb7-d8c5b7c83ffa

A note on zone blocking: It's interesting that this myth exists that the zone blocking scheme (ZBS) is dead, considering the teams that have shredded us the most on the ground have most been ZBS teams.

The #1 scoring offense in the NFL this years is a ZBS offense. Rams HC Sean McVay and offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur use mostly zone blocking with occasional man blocking in short-yardage situations.

When Atlanta was the #1 offense last year, they were also running ZBS. In addition, the #1 total offense this year, the New Orleans Saints, are also a mostly ZBS team.

The four best rushing offenses in the NFL this season (according to DVOA) are mostly ZBS running attacks: New Orleans, Green Bay, Kansas City, and Dallas. The Cowboys use both zone blocking and power concepts, but most of their running plays utilize the ZBS (specifically, the outside zone run).

So why does this anti-ZBS groupthink exist? When I played offensive tackle, we only knew man blocking, so that is my personal preference. But to claim the ZBS is not incredibly effective today seems foolhardy.

Who said ZBS is dead?

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

hawknation2017 · Dec 23, 2017

Subzero717":12qmchxi said:
hawknation2017":12qmchxi said:

pittpnthrs":12qmchxi said:

The biggest question is why arent we successful in using it?

Click to expand...

Because we need a decent RB? Eddie Lacy and Thomas Rawls suck, and Prosise is made of glass.

From 2012-15, the Seahawks had a Top 5 rushing attack every year.

hawkfan68":12qmchxi said:

The ZBS is not dead..the way Tom Cable uses it and teaches players is dead though. There's quite a bit of evidence that his way to use ZBS is not working the past 3 seasons.

Click to expand...

Correction: two seasons of incredibly poor running back play and injuries. In 2015, the Seahawks had the #1 DVOA offense and #3 rushing attack. They were less than one rushing yard per game behind #2 Carolina.

Thomas Rawls has been horrible since his rookie season in 2015 and probably won't make the roster next year.

Click to expand...

So every back we have sucks and every back that sucked here leaves and does well but it is the back fault?

I will say its not completely one or the others issue but we have invested draft capitol, switched RB coaches and RBs.

We had an elite back that led the league in YAC and two guys we should have kept.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Mike Davis and Chris Carson (before he got hurt) haven't sucked. Their success demonstrates how much Lacy/Rawls have sucked.

Subzero717":12qmchxi said:
Who said ZBS is dead?

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Have you read this message board?

Bobblehead · Dec 23, 2017

hawknation2017":3s7982qc said:
Subzero717":3s7982qc said:

hawknation2017":3s7982qc said:

pittpnthrs":3s7982qc said:

The biggest question is why arent we successful in using it?

Click to expand...

Because we need a decent RB? Eddie Lacy and Thomas Rawls suck, and Prosise is made of glass.

From 2012-15, the Seahawks had a Top 5 rushing attack every year.

hawkfan68":3s7982qc said:

The ZBS is not dead..the way Tom Cable uses it and teaches players is dead though. There's quite a bit of evidence that his way to use ZBS is not working the past 3 seasons.

Click to expand...

Correction: two seasons of incredibly poor running back play and injuries. In 2015, the Seahawks had the #1 DVOA offense and #3 rushing attack. They were less than one rushing yard per game behind #2 Carolina.

Thomas Rawls has been horrible since his rookie season in 2015 and probably won't make the roster next year.

Click to expand...

So every back we have sucks and every back that sucked here leaves and does well but it is the back fault?

I will say its not completely one or the others issue but we have invested draft capitol, switched RB coaches and RBs.

We had an elite back that led the league in YAC and two guys we should have kept.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Mike Davis and Chris Carson (before he got hurt) haven't sucked. Their success demonstrates how much Lacy/Rawls have sucked.

Subzero717":3s7982qc said:

Who said ZBS is dead?

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Have you read this message board?

\

According to Fieldgulls, ZBS is used with smaller, faster athletic athletes who are quick, and agile, while Cables ZBS is one where he likes to use BIG athletes who are fast as athletic as the smaller ones. Problem is, they don't exist in this world of blockers, which is why, he's trying to find them in Basketball players, defensive line men, and odd ball OL that has slipped through the draft. He thinks he can coach them to be that player and for the most part, it hasn't worked.

seahawkfreak · Dec 23, 2017

Subzero717":qshrcxmr said:
hawknation2017":qshrcxmr said:

http://www.therams.com/videos/videos/Film-Study-How-Todd-Gurley-dominated-running-outside-zone-against-the-Seahawks/efc54672-8bed-488d-9cb7-d8c5b7c83ffa

A note on zone blocking: It's interesting that this myth exists that the zone blocking scheme (ZBS) is dead, considering the teams that have shredded us the most on the ground have most been ZBS teams.

The #1 scoring offense in the NFL this years is a ZBS offense. Rams HC Sean McVay and offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur use mostly zone blocking with occasional man blocking in short-yardage situations.

When Atlanta was the #1 offense last year, they were also running ZBS. In addition, the #1 total offense this year, the New Orleans Saints, are also a mostly ZBS team.

The four best rushing offenses in the NFL this season (according to DVOA) are mostly ZBS running attacks: New Orleans, Green Bay, Kansas City, and Dallas. The Cowboys use both zone blocking and power concepts, but most of their running plays utilize the ZBS (specifically, the outside zone run).

So why does this anti-ZBS groupthink exist? When I played offensive tackle, we only knew man blocking, so that is my personal preference. But to claim the ZBS is not incredibly effective today seems foolhardy.

Click to expand...

Who said ZBS is dead?

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

To be honest, I have been questioning it lately because of all the blocking rules changes. I'd be interested to know how often the other ZB teams also use man blocking. I don't know how many of us have noticed but at times when we switch to man the run has usually been successful. I am by know means an expert but I wish we would use more of a variety.

Subzero717 · Dec 23, 2017

hawknation2017":1u46xdx5 said:
Subzero717":1u46xdx5 said:

hawknation2017":1u46xdx5 said:

pittpnthrs":1u46xdx5 said:

The biggest question is why arent we successful in using it?

Click to expand...

Because we need a decent RB? Eddie Lacy and Thomas Rawls suck, and Prosise is made of glass.

From 2012-15, the Seahawks had a Top 5 rushing attack every year.

hawkfan68":1u46xdx5 said:

The ZBS is not dead..the way Tom Cable uses it and teaches players is dead though. There's quite a bit of evidence that his way to use ZBS is not working the past 3 seasons.

Click to expand...

Correction: two seasons of incredibly poor running back play and injuries. In 2015, the Seahawks had the #1 DVOA offense and #3 rushing attack. They were less than one rushing yard per game behind #2 Carolina.

Thomas Rawls has been horrible since his rookie season in 2015 and probably won't make the roster next year.

Click to expand...

So every back we have sucks and every back that sucked here leaves and does well but it is the back fault?

I will say its not completely one or the others issue but we have invested draft capitol, switched RB coaches and RBs.

We had an elite back that led the league in YAC and two guys we should have kept.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Mike Davis and Chris Carson (before he got hurt) haven't sucked. Their success demonstrates how much Lacy/Rawls have sucked.

Subzero717":1u46xdx5 said:

Who said ZBS is dead?

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Have you read this message board?

Chris Carson and Mike Davis are drastically over rated by this fan base. If Davis was that good, what the check are we even talking about? Carson has 0 TDs.

If its opening weekend Cable is the OL coach and the depth chart shows Carson, Davis at RB something is horribly wrong.

Virtually every team that runs the ball with much success implements some zone concepts.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Subzero717 · Dec 23, 2017

Bobblehead":39gebo2j said:
hawknation2017":39gebo2j said:

Subzero717":39gebo2j said:

hawknation2017":39gebo2j said:

Because we need a decent RB? Eddie Lacy and Thomas Rawls suck, and Prosise is made of glass.

From 2012-15, the Seahawks had a Top 5 rushing attack every year.

Correction: two seasons of incredibly poor running back play and injuries. In 2015, the Seahawks had the #1 DVOA offense and #3 rushing attack. They were less than one rushing yard per game behind #2 Carolina.

Thomas Rawls has been horrible since his rookie season in 2015 and probably won't make the roster next year.

Click to expand...

So every back we have sucks and every back that sucked here leaves and does well but it is the back fault?

I will say its not completely one or the others issue but we have invested draft capitol, switched RB coaches and RBs.

We had an elite back that led the league in YAC and two guys we should have kept.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Mike Davis and Chris Carson (before he got hurt) haven't sucked. Their success demonstrates how much Lacy/Rawls have sucked.

Subzero717":39gebo2j said:

Who said ZBS is dead?

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Have you read this message board?

Click to expand...

\

According to Fieldgulls, ZBS is used with smaller, faster athletic athletes who are quick, and agile, while Cables ZBS is one where he likes to use BIG athletes who are fast as athletic as the smaller ones. Problem is, they don't exist in this world of blockers, which is why, he's trying to find them in Basketball players, defensive line men, and odd ball OL that has slipped through the draft. He thinks he can coach them to be that player and for the most part, it hasn't worked.

Tell Fielsgulls to look up the NO Saints OL. They aren't your daddys zone blocking line. They have some big dudes.

Fielsgulls has changed. Especially since Danny Kelly left.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

brimsalabim · Dec 24, 2017

“We need a decent runnng back” is not the answer. The name on the backs jersey means little when the linemen are diving in the grass and rolling around and failing their assignments.

Ladanian Tomlinson breaks down Gurley vs. Seahawks

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