This team fell apart after 2015.

2013 - we won the Superbowl.
2014- Lost to patriots

2015 10-6 NFL Record
We lost Dan Quinn who was coaching DC (2013-2014)
The only noticeable person on IR that Season was Jimmy Graham.


Bevell isn't really the problem. The problem is DC Kris Richard.

poly1274":21zix4gh said:

2013 - we won the Superbowl.
2014- Lost to patriots

2015 10-6 NFL Record
We lost Dan Quinn who was coaching DC (2013-2014)
The only noticeable person on IR that Season was Jimmy Graham.


Bevell isn't really the problem. The problem is DC Kris Richard.

Click to expand...

I've been keeping track of drive efficiency stats over the course of this season and comparing to the body of work from 2012-2016. Want to guess which side of the ball had more categories performing negatively from their average over the past 5 years by at least ONE standard deviation?

what. dont understand what you wrote.

mrt144":otn01ii9 said:

poly1274":otn01ii9 said:

2013 - we won the Superbowl.
2014- Lost to patriots

2015 10-6 NFL Record
We lost Dan Quinn who was coaching DC (2013-2014)
The only noticeable person on IR that Season was Jimmy Graham.


Bevell isn't really the problem. The problem is DC Kris Richard.

Click to expand...

I've been keeping track of drive efficiency stats over the course of this season and comparing to the body of work from 2012-2016. Want to guess which side of the ball had more categories performing negatively from their average over the past 5 years by at least ONE standard deviation?

Click to expand...

The answer is obvious, and it's not "the injured" side of the ball either.

Offense, and special teams (not just Walsh...all special teams were crap) lost us this season.

Seymour":3r6fnno0 said:

mrt144":3r6fnno0 said:

poly1274":3r6fnno0 said:

2013 - we won the Superbowl.
2014- Lost to patriots

2015 10-6 NFL Record
We lost Dan Quinn who was coaching DC (2013-2014)
The only noticeable person on IR that Season was Jimmy Graham.


Bevell isn't really the problem. The problem is DC Kris Richard.

Click to expand...

I've been keeping track of drive efficiency stats over the course of this season and comparing to the body of work from 2012-2016. Want to guess which side of the ball had more categories performing negatively from their average over the past 5 years by at least ONE standard deviation?

Click to expand...

The answer is obvious, and it's not "the injured" side of the ball either.

Offense, and special teams lost us this season.

Click to expand...

Seattle spends more $$ on D than O. The panthers game they gave up 1st half 31-0? That's not acceptable when everyone on D is playing.

People who blame the defense struggle to realize they've often been put into short fields which inflates their poor stats. Offense going three and out constantly with a struggling punter means zero rest and getting much less room for error. Often times a first down meant an easy field goal for the other team. Just because defense gives up points doesn't mean it's their fault, look at Rams blowout. They held them tight for the first couple drives, offense did literally nothing, then finally awful punt coverage led to an easy TD. Offense followed that up with nothing and then Rams finally ran away with it, even after an INT.

poly1274":2wba0qwu said:

what. dont understand what you wrote.

Click to expand...

Obviously. I could have predicted that based on the OP.

Let me repeat:

I've averaged and calculated the standard deviation for several drive stats both on offense and defense from 2012-2017. These include 3 and Outs per drive, TDs/RZ, Punts/Drive, etc etc. Before I reveal how 2017 measured up to 2012-2017 I want to see your guess as to how the defense performed to their averages versus the offense.

I'll help a bit

TDs Per Drive - Which side of the ball was performing 1 standard deviation below their 6 season average in 2017?
Punts per Drive - Which side of the ball was performing 1 standard deviation below their 6 season average in 2017?
3 and Outs per Drive - Which side of the ball was performing 1 standard deviation below their 6 season average in 2017?

I'll give you a freebie - The only drive statistic in 2017 where the defense performed one standard deviation below their average was AVG Lead at the start of their drive. Something that has strong interplay with the offense.

In fact, when I measured each season against the average performance from 2012-2017 the defense's worst year was 2016 from a drive efficiency POV. They are a bit off from the high water marks of 2013 and 2015 but the offense has had two very negative years in a row, 2017 being the single most divergent season from average by the offense and with Punts per Drive and 3 and Outs per Drive being more than one standard deviation from average in a bad way.

I'm still waiting on the last update of the season from Football Outsiders to complete the season but my gut tells me that Sunday's losing effort won't move the needle much at all one way or another but as it stands from week 16, the Seahawks Defense was only slightly off from average while the offense was a smoldering pile of rubble.

I've tried sharing this as google sheets document but it destroys the math and logical hoops I created to divine the comparison. Here are the raw stats you can play around with - https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff

Trust me, you're barking up the wrong tree in the problems with the team. The defense isn't as good as the high water mark but only slightly so. The offense has changed for the worse.

poly1274":26lyfus8 said:

Seymour":26lyfus8 said:

mrt144":26lyfus8 said:

poly1274":26lyfus8 said:

2013 - we won the Superbowl.
2014- Lost to patriots

2015 10-6 NFL Record
We lost Dan Quinn who was coaching DC (2013-2014)
The only noticeable person on IR that Season was Jimmy Graham.


Bevell isn't really the problem. The problem is DC Kris Richard.

Click to expand...

I've been keeping track of drive efficiency stats over the course of this season and comparing to the body of work from 2012-2016. Want to guess which side of the ball had more categories performing negatively from their average over the past 5 years by at least ONE standard deviation?

Click to expand...

The answer is obvious, and it's not "the injured" side of the ball either.

Offense, and special teams lost us this season.

Click to expand...

Seattle spends more $$ on D than O. The panthers game they gave up 1st half 31-0? That's not acceptable when everyone on D is playing.

Click to expand...

We didn't even play the Panthers this year. Are you seriously digging back to last season to make your point when we have all that futility on offense this season?

mistaowen":11z9ozvb said:

People who blame the defense struggle to realize they've often been put into short fields which inflates their poor stats. Offense going three and out constantly with a struggling punter means zero rest and getting much less room for error. Often times a first down meant an easy field goal for the other team. Just because defense gives up points doesn't mean it's their fault, look at Rams blowout. They held them tight for the first couple drives, offense did literally nothing, then finally awful punt coverage led to an easy TD. Offense followed that up with nothing and then Rams finally ran away with it, even after an INT.

Click to expand...

Well said, I almost feel like the OP is purposefully being a contrarian. The money argument doesn't make sense either. What is the standard for the D than, 0 pts, 6pts, etc........? I don't expect the offense to score a ton of points but I do expect them not to wait till the 4th quarter, get more 1st downs so we can at least flip the field and RW not being 82% of our offense all the while playing street ball.

Seymour":375zqpy8 said:

poly1274":375zqpy8 said:

Seymour":375zqpy8 said:

mrt144":375zqpy8 said:

I've been keeping track of drive efficiency stats over the course of this season and comparing to the body of work from 2012-2016. Want to guess which side of the ball had more categories performing negatively from their average over the past 5 years by at least ONE standard deviation?

Click to expand...

The answer is obvious, and it's not "the injured" side of the ball either.

Offense, and special teams lost us this season.

Click to expand...

Seattle spends more $$ on D than O. The panthers game they gave up 1st half 31-0? That's not acceptable when everyone on D is playing.

Click to expand...

We didn't even play the Panthers this year. Are you seriously digging back to last season to make your point when we have all that futility on offense this season?

Click to expand...

Offense wasn't the problem this season. The main 3 people on IR Sherman Avril and Chancellor doomed us.

seahawkfreak":28jov06b said:

mistaowen":28jov06b said:

People who blame the defense struggle to realize they've often been put into short fields which inflates their poor stats. Offense going three and out constantly with a struggling punter means zero rest and getting much less room for error. Often times a first down meant an easy field goal for the other team. Just because defense gives up points doesn't mean it's their fault, look at Rams blowout. They held them tight for the first couple drives, offense did literally nothing, then finally awful punt coverage led to an easy TD. Offense followed that up with nothing and then Rams finally ran away with it, even after an INT.

Click to expand...

Well said, I almost feel like the OP is purposefully being a contrarian. The money argument doesn't make sense either. What is the standard for the D than, 0 pts, 6pts, etc........? I don't expect the offense to score a ton of points but I do expect them not to wait till the 4th quarter, get more 1st downs so we can at least flip the field and RW not being 82% of our offense all the while playing street ball.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Defense shouldn't be expected to hold NFL teams to 6 points, especially when the offense repeatedly gives the ball back with a short field to defend. The fact most games weren't blow outs was largely thanks to the defense creating punts or making the other team kick field goals with plus field position. Offense only having a couple of positive drives per game, even with an actual short field on most of them, is to blame for this season.

mistaowen":5v96q9ag said:

People who blame the defense struggle to realize they've often been put into short fields which inflates their poor stats. Offense going three and out constantly with a struggling punter means zero rest and getting much less room for error. Often times a first down meant an easy field goal for the other team. Just because defense gives up points doesn't mean it's their fault, look at Rams blowout. They held them tight for the first couple drives, offense did literally nothing, then finally awful punt coverage led to an easy TD. Offense followed that up with nothing and then Rams finally ran away with it, even after an INT.

Click to expand...

All I'm saying is that with the 2015 schedule, we dominated some teams and the D wasn't playing that much.

26-0 Bears
20-3 49ers
38-7 Vikings
35-6 Ravens
36-6 Zona.

During this Season the D wasn't gassed, but they gave up 31-0 to the Panthers 1st half. None of the major Defensive players for Seattle got injured in 2015. We still had Lynch and Bevell and still won the superbowl in 2013. I'm saying that if we had Quinn retained as DC, 2015+ Seahawks would had done better, maybe would had gone to the Superbowl that year also.

It fell apart when we lost Tate who could also return kicks to give us a short field.

It fell apart when we traded Unger for a TE we never would use, and in doing drove away the RB that brought us to 2 SB and made Wilson more of a weapon.

When we gave Harvin a huge contract that assured Tate would be gone and star defensive players would chafe.
And it fell apart the moment Bevel lost us a SB and there were no consequences.

These were all decisions that destroyed our offense.

Blaming the defense is insane .

Aw Mang":j8efwnp4 said:

Blaming the defense is insane .

Click to expand...

This year or 2015?

poly1274":1ymg2csa said:

Seymour":1ymg2csa said:

poly1274":1ymg2csa said:

Seymour":1ymg2csa said:

The answer is obvious, and it's not "the injured" side of the ball either.

Offense, and special teams lost us this season.

Click to expand...

Seattle spends more $$ on D than O. The panthers game they gave up 1st half 31-0? That's not acceptable when everyone on D is playing.

Click to expand...

We didn't even play the Panthers this year. Are you seriously digging back to last season to make your point when we have all that futility on offense this season?

Click to expand...

Offense wasn't the problem this season. The main 3 people on IR Sherman Avril and Chancellor doomed us.

Click to expand...

I appreciate your passion but for now, I'll trust my own eyes.

Seymour":2pyhuz6u said:

mrt144":2pyhuz6u said:

poly1274":2pyhuz6u said:

2013 - we won the Superbowl.
2014- Lost to patriots

2015 10-6 NFL Record
We lost Dan Quinn who was coaching DC (2013-2014)
The only noticeable person on IR that Season was Jimmy Graham.


Bevell isn't really the problem. The problem is DC Kris Richard.

Click to expand...

I've been keeping track of drive efficiency stats over the course of this season and comparing to the body of work from 2012-2016. Want to guess which side of the ball had more categories performing negatively from their average over the past 5 years by at least ONE standard deviation?

Click to expand...

The answer is obvious, and it's not "the injured" side of the ball either.

Offense, and special teams (not just Walsh...all special teams were crap) lost us this season.

Click to expand...

I would agree w/that. The D wasn't nearly as dominant as prior seasons, but our offense and special teams were too often downright horrible...

Well Wilson threw a pick six and another pick that had the Panthers at our 20 or so early in that game so you can't put 31-0 solely on the defense.

If you think the offense wasnt by and far the main problem this year idk what to say man.

mistaowen":3dztcbqz said:

People who blame the defense struggle to realize they've often been put into short fields which inflates their poor stats. Offense going three and out constantly with a struggling punter means zero rest and getting much less room for error. Often times a first down meant an easy field goal for the other team. Just because defense gives up points doesn't mean it's their fault, look at Rams blowout. They held them tight for the first couple drives, offense did literally nothing, then finally awful punt coverage led to an easy TD. Offense followed that up with nothing and then Rams finally ran away with it, even after an INT.

Click to expand...

Conversely, back in the day, our D kept giving our O short fields consistently, and our even then gimmick O turned them into enough for 12 and 13 regular season wins. Now, we are not good in winning the turnover battle, and our opponents flip the field on us more often than we flip it on them. Ergo, 9-7.

I think another niner troll snuck under the radar.