Is it time to evolve

chris98251

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This is going to end up in the OC bin I think but the idea is what I would like to discuss.

Everyone or almost everyone is doing the copy cat of our defense now, bringing in taller and bigger CB's, faster LB and not the guys that could take on lineman as much as gap shooters etc, smaller quicker D lineman except for your NT as the anchor.

In other words speed and length.

The question is how do you counter speed and length?

I say power and strength, nothing fancy just good ole I am bigger and stronger and can impose my will on you because size matters.

Really this isn't evolving as much as going backwards 20 years and bringing in the power systems of old, defenses being faster and lighter in many instances would be susceptible to a bigger power scheme, using quicker receivers rather then fast, having both is good, Think of the Hogs of old in Washington with Riggins and the Smurfs. We have seen that quick and shifty still give our bigger CB's problems, Why GB has success against us a lot with Cobb and the other guy that broke onto the scene who is similar as well as other teams quick guys.

When all is pretty much equal you need to adapt and find a advantage, or do something different enough that teams have to adjust again. I think we are at that point and then some, especially on offense, our defense has excelled with unique players that the rest of the league has tried to emulate and many now are very close to that, our separation there is not what it was due to age and other teams catching up. Our advantage would be to make a change to our offense that counters that defensive model.

The thing is we have many of the pieces in place to start making this happen right now.

Thoughts?
 

hawkfan68

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Good post. I agree. That's how they did in 2012-2014 but somehow started to get away from it. They have some strong guys on the team but are asking them to play in a finesse scheme (ZBS- the way Cable prefers it). Get back to power ball.
 

sdog1981

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hawkfan68":2cvcibr0 said:
Good post. I agree. That's how they did in 2012-2014 but somehow started to get away from it. They have some strong guys on the team but are asking them to play in a finesse scheme (ZBS- the way Cable prefers it). Get back to power ball.

The same scheme they ran in 2010-17? When they lead the league in rushing? They had strong guys who ran that same finesse scheme then too.
 

jammerhawk

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I agree with the OP.

The team needs new direction on O. In that regard I have little belief that will come from Cable or Bevell as their bag of tricks is empty. There is some relent here on O that could allow change to quickly have a positive effect.

On D the whole way they defend 3rd downs needs a refresh.

They also need better kicking and improved ST play in terms of tackling.
 

hawkfan68

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sdog1981":2o1x786n said:
hawkfan68":2o1x786n said:
Good post. I agree. That's how they did in 2012-2014 but somehow started to get away from it. They have some strong guys on the team but are asking them to play in a finesse scheme (ZBS- the way Cable prefers it). Get back to power ball.

The same scheme they ran in 2010-17? When they lead the league in rushing? They had strong guys who ran that same finesse scheme then too.

Cable wasn't here in 2010. He came with Bevell in 2011 and at that time Lynch was here too. They led in rushing in 2016 and 2017? Alrighty then.....

Finesse worked because they had a workhorse running back who could overcome the deficiency of the scheme. It's like hiding garbage under a rug...so to speak.
 

adeltaY

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But wasn't Marshawn struggling until he went to Cable and learned how to be successful in the scheme then he took off?
 

hawkfan68

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adeltaY":6wa9k04g said:
But wasn't Marshawn struggling until he went to Cable and learned how to be successful in the scheme then he took off?

Marshawn Lynch rushed for 573 yards but only played a handful of games as a Seahawk (after being traded to the team) in 2010. In 2011, he rushed for 1204 yards and 4.2 ypc, 1012 - he had 1590 yards, then in 2013 he had 1257 yards, and 1306 in 2014. He also was one of the top, if not the top, in yards after contact. I wouldn't consider that struggling....
http://www.nfl.com/player/marshawnlynch/2495663/careerstats
http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/101754/lynch-has-second-gear-after-first-contact

Here's what Cable had to say regarding Marshawn in 2015 (while he was coming back from injury)....so it could be they had changed some of their philosophy around 2015. http://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-se...cable-marshawn-lynch-will-have-to-adapt-to-us
 

Uncle Si

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Evolving sounds much better than staying the same or breaking the team up and rebuilding. I think it's what most fans would prefer and what makes most sense.

In terms of evolving, however, is it time to change the identity of the offense from "run first" based to Russel Wilson's team? I know he was involved in a ridiculous amount of plays this year, but that was more of necessity than choice
 

Sgt. Largent

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chris98251":edqeru0y said:
The question is how do you counter speed and length?

I say power and strength, nothing fancy just good ole I am bigger and stronger and can impose my will on you because size matters.

That is who we used to be, on both sides of the ball. All of the above.

The problem hasn't been "evolving"...................the problem has been Pete refused to change his schemes and tactics once that size, speed and physicality advantage evaporated. He just kept hoping the new players through coaching and scheme fit into his old schemes.

In the NFL the worst thing you can be is predictable.
 

sdog1981

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hawkfan68":1adpco2u said:
sdog1981":1adpco2u said:
hawkfan68":1adpco2u said:
Good post. I agree. That's how they did in 2012-2014 but somehow started to get away from it. They have some strong guys on the team but are asking them to play in a finesse scheme (ZBS- the way Cable prefers it). Get back to power ball.

The same scheme they ran in 2010-17? When they lead the league in rushing? They had strong guys who ran that same finesse scheme then too.

Cable wasn't here in 2010. He came with Bevell in 2011 and at that time Lynch was here too. They led in rushing in 2016 and 2017? Alrighty then.....

Finesse worked because they had a workhorse running back who could overcome the deficiency of the scheme. It's like hiding garbage under a rug...so to speak.


They ran that finesse system every year he was here and it was successful. Don't get me wrong Cable is a complete joke of a coach, and everything he touches gets worse.
 

Hendo66

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jammerhawk":3uz32zru said:
I agree with the OP.

The team needs new direction on O. In that regard I have little belief that will come from Cable or Bevell as their bag of tricks is empty. There is some relent here on O that could allow change to quickly have a positive effect.

On D the whole way they defend 3rd downs needs a refresh.

They also need better kicking and improved ST play in terms of tackling.

That about nails it!

I'll add they need to draft a lot better. Not very good lately.

Meanwhile, the rest of the league is making moves and around here? Crickets....
 
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