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Was the Richardson trade a good deal?

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Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:34 pm
  • Was this another 'Pete move' where like the Harvin trade the immense potential outweighed the delivered results? While Richardson is a great player, if the team can't sign him was the trade worth it? A 2018 2nd for a 2019 3rd? Capwise unless other major cap moves are made it will be tough for the team to keep this player and the one year rental cost the team a second round pick at a critical transitional time for the team.

    If of course the team can keep Richardson then the price was right and there is finally that 3 Tech the team has needed for ever.

    I guess the answer is it depends, but it certainly was risky and could bite at a critical time. This is psrt of the 'big balls Pete persona but it sure makes you wonder. In the end it's go big or go home I suppose.

    The three players Harvin, Graham, and now Richardson were all 'go for it' trades. Sadly to now the Harvin trade was a disaster, the team hasn't seen much benefit from Graham, and Richardson may be gone before we know what he could do here. I can say I think Bevell struggled to know what to do with Harvin and Graham, but the window for Richardson has been small, perhaps far too short.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:40 pm
  • jammerhawk wrote:Was this another 'Pete move' where like the Harvin trade the immense potential outweighed the delivered results? While Richardson is a great player, if the team can't sign him was the trade worth it? A 2018 2nd for a 2019 3rd? Capwise unless other major cap moves are made it will be tough for the team to keep this player and the one year rental cost the team a second round pick at a critical transitional time for the team.

    If of course the team can keep Richardson then the price was right and there is finally that 3 Tech the team has needed for ever.

    I guess the answer is it depends, but it certainly was risky and could bite at a critical time. This is psrt of the 'big balls Pete persona but it sure makes you wonder. In the end it's go big or go home I suppose.

    The three players Harvin, Graham, and now Richardson were all 'go for it' trades. Sadly to now the Harvin trade was a disaster, the team hasn't seen much benefit from Graham, and Richardson may be gone before we know what he could do here. I can say I think Bevell struggled to know what to do with Harvin and Graham, but the window for Richardson has been small, perhaps far too short.


    I could be wrong, but we may have the option to franchise him for this next season. If that is the case we have time to work out a long term deal with him. Pocket collapsing 3tech's just come along every year and we should do everthing we can to keep him.

    As for was it worth it? Yes.

    It wasn't his fault that our offense couldn't sustain drives, or do pretty much anything right the first half of every game this season. He did his job.
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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:43 pm
  • Franchise tag will be too much. Top 5 DT salaries currently average over $18 million.

    Seahawks either get a deal done worth around $12 million APY over four years or they let him leave for the 3rd round comp pick.
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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:35 pm
  • I'm not sure how it will sit with other D players that have gone through the grind with the Hawks that past 5 or 6 years to have him become the 2nd highest paid player on the Hawks.
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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:44 pm
  • Hes a great player for sure. Dont know if hes worth paying that much money though. Naz jones looked really great as well and malik might be coming back.
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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:05 am
  • AT THE TIME we perceived that we were Super Bowl contenders that just lost our first draft pick. We thought we had a major need at that position so we filled it.

    If in the end the cost of that was a mid-round 2nd round pick and we receive back a late third round (TBD) then that is not a high cost

    this to the Percy Harvin trade is like comparing the price of truffels to the mushrooms you buy in the grocery store....
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  • The Paul Richardson non-trade was a good deal... he's made clutch plays at WR for us.
    Oops, the DT Sheldon Richardson, yes, it as a good, or at worst, OK trade.

    It was so awesome finally seeing push up the middle.
    And then Naz Jones started showing this type of impact as well.
    I think the cost was in line with the benefits.
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  • I'd like to see him resigned, however not entirely convinced it'll happen.

    I guess a lot depends on Malik's status heading into next season.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:Franchise tag will be too much. Top 5 DT salaries currently average over $18 million.

    Seahawks either get a deal done worth around $12 million APY over four years or they let him leave for the 3rd round comp pick.


    DT franchise tag is currently $14m not $18m for what it's worth. I agree on the $12m part, similar to what other DT's have been receiving lately.
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  • I think you franchise him in 2018, make him have to work hard another year to get paid and then let him walk in '19 and receive a comp pick in 2020


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  • It was worth it. The team had a vision for the defense this year and they went after it.

    He’s probably gone thought.
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  • I liked the move. Hopefully a deal can be worked out to resign him. A four year, $50mil contract with a lower number for 2018 and then a large increase in 2019 when JS has plenty of cap space to work with. I'm not a cap guru, but something like:

    2018: $9 Mil guaranteed
    2019: $13 Mil guaranteed
    2020: $14 Mil guaranteed
    2021: $14 Mil

    Add in a $4 Mil signing bonus prorated over four years. That puts his cap hit at only $10 Mil for 2018 and Richardson would be guaranteed $40 Mil of the total contract. Maybe some cap guys can elaborate on numbers, but they seem realistic in today's market and might seem like a bargain in two years. The only problem I see is that Jaron Reed will be an UFA in 2020, so to resign him might tie up too much money at the DT position for the 2020 season. Also, JS will probably want to extend Frank Clark at some point this year as well.
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  • He slammed the door on a number of crucial opponent drives this year. We have him and Bennett to thank for the Houston and LA wins.

    He didn't get the pocket push I was hoping for, but with Malik out (probably permanently), the Hawks probably didn't feel they had much choice.

    Hope they can get him back without breaking the bank.
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  • mikeak wrote:AT THE TIME we perceived that we were Super Bowl contenders that just lost our first draft pick. We thought we had a major need at that position so we filled it.

    If in the end the cost of that was a mid-round 2nd round pick and we receive back a late third round (TBD) then that is not a high cost

    this to the Percy Harvin trade is like comparing the price of truffels to the mushrooms you buy in the grocery store....


    This^^^^.
    At the time I was on the fence but bought in because I thought we had a good team last year and he could have made a difference. The hind sight we now have, I'd say it was a mistake, I'd say he is a borderline or at least potential locker room problem that did dot have the impact we had hoped.

    Good player. Yes.
    Worth $12M No.

    That said, he is nothing close to the turd / thief Harvin is.
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  • it was if you realize that McDowell will likely never play a down the NFL.
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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:06 am
  • It absolutely was. Players that good generally go in the top 15 picks of draft.

    It's a position that can't really be evaluated by traditional stats, but having a player of his caliber at DT freed up Wagner to have a DMVP caliber season (not to mention J Reed's bigtime contributions too)
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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:12 am
  • Richardson this year was graded as played very well by some, but in terms of the overall Seahawks season, the defense as a unit did not perform well.
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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:48 am
  • I don't think my OP compared the players Harvin, Graham, or Richardson except in the sense that they were all obtained by 'go for it type trades'. Harvin was a headcase and while talented as heck was unable to be coached and further was an injury malingerer. Graham was never used well for his whole time here and although thankfully Bevell figured out how to use him in the redzonethis last season he certain was continuously poorly used between the 20's. Both of those player were equivalently expensive in draft capital and salary but both were able to be kept on the roster for more than one season if they worked out. Richardson unfortunately didn't come with that guarantee but was equally expensive.

    To me the question was: Is the opportunity cost of a lost 2nd in this draft to be replaced by the possibility of a late 3rd in next season's draft worth the one season we had with this player?

    I completely agree he's a genuine talent, and if the team could have drafted him back when he was in the draft he'd have been my absolute choice. I also completely agree his stats are not capable of conventional assessment and that he is a force at his position and makes the D stronger. I just wonder if the one year rental of this player (assuming he can't be re-signed) was worth the loss of the 18th pick in the second round in trade for a pick that would likely be at the end of the 3rd round the following season's draft?

    I further completely understood the McDougall issue and the team's need for some inside pass rush help last season and some veteran stability at the 3 tech position. Unfortunately that was only guaranteed for last season. What will be given up will be the difference between pick #50 this year and pick #96-100 next year or the equivalent of between 288 and 300 trade points (Jimmy Johnson chart) or a late second round pick for this year's draft only if you don't discount the value of the next years's late 3rd comp. pick by the usual discount. If you do discount the non- guaranteed 3rd next year for the reason it is next year to a late 4th, as convention dictates, then the value of the cost of the trade increases significantly from the numbers I listed above.

    To me the correct answer to the question posed is yes, but only if the player is retained by the team. Otherwise the Seahawks have given away future opportunity for very short term gain.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:52 am
  • Do we re-sign Richardson?

    It will depend on two things:

    1. His Market Value
    2. Options for replacing him

    Yes, Naz Jones looks very good, and he has also proven to be versatile. What position does he play going forward? With Bennett's career winding down and McDowell quite possibly never playing again, Jones could end up as the starter at strong side DE. Sure, he could play the 3-tech and even showed he could capably man the 1-tech when Reed went down. The development of Quentin Jefferson and Dion Jordan could be a factor as well - they are also possible Bennett replacements.

    Even if Jones stays inside, the tackle rotation becomes very thin if Richardson leaves.

    As far as available free agents, the best DT's - Dontari Poe, Justin Ellis, DaQuan Jones - are more run-stuffing types than pass rushers, although Jones showed some pass rushing potential, notching 3.5 sacks before going out for the season with a torn biceps muscle.

    Richardson is good, and young, and he seemed to like playing in Seattle and fit in with the team well. Keeping him would solidify a very strong DT rotation, and the options for replacing him are limited. On the other hand, signing him will eat up cap space, cost a late 2019 3rd round pick, and the thin FA market for players at his position will drive his value up. He's also only notched 2.5 sacks in 30 games over the past two seasons - Aaron Donald he is not.

    It will come down to his market value. If we can get him back in the $10-12M APY range I'd say he's worth it. $14-16M would be a little hard to swallow given the other FA needs.
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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:09 am
  • Sheldon was slightly underwhelming here imo.
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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:07 pm
  • In hindsight I think it was a bad trade. I think we’d have had a more stout run defense with Rubin and I don’t think Richardson was enough of a disruptive force in the pass game to justify cutting Rubin and eating his cap hit, trading a 2nd rounder AND paying Richardson’s salary. We’d have had more in-season roster flexibility and that 2nd round pick if the trade never happened. Being so tight against the cap handcuffed the front office, most notably when it came to eating Walsh’s remaining salary and replacing him.
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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:52 pm
  • Richardson was never a difference maker. We traded a second rounder for a decent player. Niners traded a second rounder for a QB that has revitalized the franchise seemingly.

    So yes, it was a trade that didn't work out. I'm not sure you can say that it was bad given Rubin's skills were diminishing and McDowell was a no show. Imagine the mess we'd have had at DL if there was no Richardson. Bennet was playing on a bad foot. Naz missed the last 6 games. Jordan missed the first 6. Avril went on IR. If it weren't for Reed and Richardson staying generally healthy all year we'd have been sunk in November TBH.
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Re: Was the Richardson trade a good deal?
Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:55 pm
  • It's only a good deal if we resign Richardson to a decent extension so he can play here another 3-4 years.

    If he leaves? Terrible deal, no playoffs and gave up a 2nd rounder.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:It's only a good deal if we resign Richardson to a decent extension so he can play here another 3-4 years.

    If he leaves? Terrible deal, no playoffs and gave up a 2nd rounder.


    If he leaves we get a 3rd rounder back. Keep that in mind.
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  • endzorn wrote:In hindsight I think it was a bad trade. I think we’d have had a more stout run defense with Rubin and I don’t think Richardson was enough of a disruptive force in the pass game to justify cutting Rubin and eating his cap hit, trading a 2nd rounder AND paying Richardson’s salary. We’d have had more in-season roster flexibility and that 2nd round pick if the trade never happened. Being so tight against the cap handcuffed the front office, most notably when it came to eating Walsh’s remaining salary and replacing him.


    Took the words right out of my head. I feel the same way.
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  • ImTheScientist wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:It's only a good deal if we resign Richardson to a decent extension so he can play here another 3-4 years.

    If he leaves? Terrible deal, no playoffs and gave up a 2nd rounder.


    If he leaves we get a 3rd rounder back. Keep that in mind.


    That helps, but in the grand scheme of "was this a good trade?" Without us extending Richardson to a good deal for us, it's a fail for me.

    His play also trailed off like Bennett and Clark as the season went along. So even if you just looked at what happened on the field, I'd say it was a failure. Richardson played well, but IMO wasn't the impact lights out player we thought we were getting.
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  • Is he is ‘good player’, yes. Was it a good deal, no.
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