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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:48 pm
  • toffee wrote:There may be hope that Schottenheimer may not become our next OC: In the last two days, Pete let it known that Ken Norton is coming back as DC, and Solaris coming as OL coach but not a word about Schottenheimer. May be push back by 12 is causing Pete to rethink?


    Nope, Pete knows more about who's going where than we can imagine. His personal relationship with Norton is 100% why he bailed on SF. He's cooking up something. Time for Pete to take a big risk.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:13 pm
  • Schottenheimer appears to get the most out of undertalented players. Bevell wasted highly talented ones. I'll take Schotty all day, every day over Bevell.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:22 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:Lol. We're not doing anything with ToP. Worthless freaking stat, and you know I despise it. :lol:

    PPG. Seahawks finished this season with 22.9 PPG, #1 in the league was a blistering 29.9 PPG by the Rams, and 5th place was 26.1 PPG by Jax, to give some perspective. What PPG number do we need to hit for you to be satisfied?



    I want 45 touchdowns and 30 FG = 405 points

    Or .... 50 touchdowns and 20 FG = 410 points

    Or 40 touchdowns and 40 field goals = 400 points (worst case scenario, ie, red zone struggles).

    400 points a season is what an NFL offense should score in this era, so what is that? 25 PPG?


    Let's go with that. 25 PPG on offense is what I expect an OC to accomplish. That way if our defense is good, it's playoffs, and if our defense is great , it's Superbowl.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:25 pm
  • It's too bad that Graham is UFA. I think he's the perfect TE for Brian Schottenheimer offense. I've been reading up on Schottenheimer and Air Coryell offense. It's a philosophy that thrives on vertical and seam routes. Guess what Graham's strength is/was before he was in Cabevell offense? Yup, He thrived in the seam and vertical routes. I think he could do very well if Schottenheimer's offense performs as planned.

    Good thing is there are some TE's in this draft that can work well - Andrews (OU), Hayden Hurst (NC St), Mike Gesicki (PSU), Ian Thomas (IU), and Fumangalli (Wisc).
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:38 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    If I'm trying to analyze this glass half full............Schottenheimer is coming from Georgia in 2015 where he did install a NASTY run game for Kirby Smart.

    So if paired with the right line coach, I could see him making a positive impact on getting our run game back on track. Which was I imagine a big reason Pete likes him.


    Wasn't it Jim Chaney that put in the Georgia running game? Chaney was Drew Brees' coach at Purdue too.

    Let's interview him!
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:40 pm
  • The_Z_Man wrote:I want 45 touchdowns and 30 FG = 405 points

    Or .... 50 touchdowns and 20 FG = 410 points

    Or 40 touchdowns and 40 field goals = 400 points (worst case scenario, ie, red zone struggles).

    400 points a season is what an NFL offense should score in this era, so what is that? 25 PPG?


    Let's go with that. 25 PPG on offense is what I expect an OC to accomplish. That way if our defense is good, it's playoffs, and if our defense is great , it's Superbowl.


    Only 8 teams scored over 400 points last season and 7 of them won their division. So that is a good goal to aim for.

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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:53 pm
  • toffee wrote:There may be hope that Schottenheimer may not become our next OC: In the last two days, Pete let it known that Ken Norton is coming back as DC, and Solaris coming as OL coach but not a word about Schottenheimer. May be push back by 12 is causing Pete to rethink?


    Or they are waiting for the guys who assign parking lot spaces to find one big enough to put his name on and spell it correctly.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:56 pm
  • Graham, Sefarian-Jenkins both would thrive in the passing game, but it also requires blocking and the want to remember this is running first still but with guys moving all over the field for passing attacks as well, Sefarian-Jenkins has learned that, Grahams heart is never in it.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:10 pm
  • I was cautiously optimistic.

    Now I am skeptically optimistic, maybe more skeptical than optimist - but I am hopeful, if not a little jaded.

    The stuff about Pete asserting control over the team worries me. It isn't like Pete is some strategic or tactical genius, so I was hoping we could find someone that is.

    Pete is a motivational coach, that made it work in the NFL. But his X/O stuff is middling.

    This kind of hire isn't helping things.

    We will see.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:10 pm
  • Schotty went full Bevell on the biggest stage the Jets had - the 2011 AFC title game against the Stealers. That game as a whole was very similar to recent Hawks games - awful first half buried in a big hole and a furious 2nd half rally that came up short. A key part of it - 1st and goal at the 2 that ended up with a 4th down stuff thanks to getting too cute passing with Sanchez instead of pounding the rock with Shonn Greene, who had converted a 4th down earlier in the same drive!

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/26/jets-tipped-their-plays-on-steelers-goal-line-stand/

    Meet the new OC...same as the old OC
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:15 pm
  • If he can bring a strong screen game, get run game to mid level, get oline to mid + level, and find a kicker we should hit 11+W's next year.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:18 pm
  • Hustle_Wilson wrote:Schotty went full Bevell on the biggest stage the Jets had - the 2011 AFC title game against the Stealers. That game as a whole was very similar to recent Hawks games - awful first half buried in a big hole and a furious 2nd half rally that came up short. A key part of it - 1st and goal at the 2 that ended up with a 4th down stuff thanks to getting too cute passing with Sanchez instead of pounding the rock with Shonn Greene, who had converted a 4th down earlier in the same drive!

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/26/jets-tipped-their-plays-on-steelers-goal-line-stand/

    Meet the new OC...same as the old OC


    I don't think this happened the way you remember it.

    The Steelers had the #1 run defense in 2010, unlike the Patriots who had one of the worst run defenses in the NFL in 2014.

    1st and Goal at PIT 2
    (8:39 - 4th) S.Greene up the middle to PIT 1 for 1 yard (J.Farrior, L.Timmons).

    2nd and Goal at PIT 1
    (7:56 - 4th) M.Sanchez pass incomplete short right to D.Keller. Coverage by #25 Clark.

    3rd and Goal at PIT 1
    (7:53 - 4th) M.Sanchez pass incomplete short right to S.Holmes (L.Woodley). Batted down near the line of scrimmage.

    4th and Goal at PIT 1
    (7:50 - 4th) L.Tomlinson up the middle to PIT 1 for no gain (B.Keisel, C.Hampton).

    They attempted runs on first down and 4th down (against the best run defense in the NFL) . . . to no avail. That is balance.

    On their next drive, Sanchez threw a TD pass to Cotchery from the four yard line to make it a five-point game.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:36 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Hey, I'm just happy I don't have to log on Monday mornings anymore and see 50 fire Bevell posts.


    They'll be replaced, probably during training camp or pre-season, with Schottenheimer's name attached.

    My optimism runs high! :2thumbs:
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:52 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:It's too bad that Graham is UFA. I think he's the perfect TE for Brian Schottenheimer offense. I've been reading up on Schottenheimer and Air Coryell offense. It's a philosophy that thrives on vertical and seam routes. Guess what Graham's strength is/was before he was in Cabevell offense? Yup, He thrived in the seam and vertical routes. I think he could do very well if Schottenheimer's offense performs as planned.

    Good thing is there are some TE's in this draft that can work well - Andrews (OU), Hayden Hurst (NC St), Mike Gesicki (PSU), Ian Thomas (IU), and Fumangalli (Wisc).


    I wrote the following about Jimmy Graham a couple of weeks ago ...

    The issue with Jimmy Graham coming back (in my mind) is twofold ...

    #1 -- $10-15 Million (or whatever the actual contract number would happen to be) is just FAR too much for a 31 year old TE. There are a lot of other areas where that money can be allocated.

    Much more importantly though it's about ...

    #2 -- IDENTITY. So much of the questions we find ourselves asking about this team come down to questions of IDENTITY. Who are the Seattle Seahawks? What are they all about? At the heart of it, what are their core values? For the Hawks under Pete Carroll, the answer to that question has been all about ...

    Hard Nosed In Your Face Defense
    Toughness
    Nastiness and "being the bully" -- punching other teams in the mouth until they cry uncle and submit.
    Running the Football (Marshawn Lynch embodied what this team was all about). It's STILL what they value.

    So, which part of that does Jimmy Graham truly support? I mean, he's a very talented pass catcher (that goes without saying). At 6'7" 265 lbs he's admittedly a match-up nightmare ... and Russell Wilson clearly came to rely upon him. There's a chemistry there.

    BUT ... when you look at Jimmy Graham, does he really embody that "nastiness"? Is he a bully to opposing defenses? Does he shove them around? Is he a good, hard nosed, nasty run blocker?

    The answer to all of that (of course) is No. When push comes to shove, he's a finesse player ... and this Seahawks team has never been about finesse. He's a square peg in a round hole whom we've tried to make fit ever since he's been here. IMO, that missing piece right there (Graham's lack of nastiness, poor run blocking, etc.) has been part of the problem. His lack of blocking ability and nastiness is part of what's ailed this team, in terms of the running game and also blocking for other receivers after the catch.

    To me, I'd rather roll with Nick Vannett in there and see what he can do if you give him the reps that Jimmy Graham had. Vannett reminds me a lot of what this team used to have in Zach Miller. THAT'S more of the kind of TE that fits in this offense. And he's going to be a whole heck of a lot less expensive.

    I'm firmly of the opinion that Graham is gone for all of the reasons noted above.

    http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145145&start=50

    I stand firmly by those exact same comments. Nothing that's happened has changed that opinion. In fact, Pete bringing in Brian Schottenheimer has only cemented that opinion. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe Graham fits what the Seahawks intend to do with the offense moving forward.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:08 pm
  • ASJ is a much better fit really, he has learned or learning more about blocking, is willing, has a nasty streak and is a good receiver. He had maturity issues that made people associate him with a Jeremy Stevens profile, but he seems to have grown up since that Tampa Bay situation.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:51 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:I was cautiously optimistic.

    Now I am skeptically optimistic, maybe more skeptical than optimist - but I am hopeful, if not a little jaded.

    The stuff about Pete asserting control over the team worries me. It isn't like Pete is some strategic or tactical genius, so I was hoping we could find someone that is.

    Pete is a motivational coach, that made it work in the NFL. But his X/O stuff is middling.

    This kind of hire isn't helping things.

    We will see.


    Agree with all your statements and this is how I feel. Pete is a motivational and talent type coach. Use that strength then bring in innovators that can be productive with your vision. Nothing wrong with his philosophy either but if you hand the ball off and do not get yards or TDs that is not a running game.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:16 am
  • fifty9fan wrote:I remember a head coach that went 41-55 in his first 6 seasons. Dude's name is Bill Belichick.

    I also remember Pete Carroll getting run out of the NFL on a rail after going 33-31 as a head coach with the Jets and Pats. Comes back in 2010 and has gone 79-48 since.

    Bet the folks in Buffalo were just thrilled to get Marv Levy, who went 31-42 in 5 seasons with KC. 4 Superbowl appearances later, and a 112-70 record with the Bills created one of the NFL's great runs, and if the ball had bounced differently a couple of times, they may have been named among the dynasties of the late 80's/early 90's.

    Point is, I don't think any of us have any idea what Schotty is gonna bring to the Seahawk table...just like the fans of the Pats, Seahawks and Bills had no clue either. And many of them cursed those hires, but in time, discovered the ability of humans to adapt, grow and succeed in new environments. Here's hoping the same thing happens to Schotty. I, for one, welcome his hire and hope for great results. And I can't wait to see what he does with Russ!!

    It's certainly possible it may turn out to be a less than stellar hire, but right now, it's all good.

    Go Hawks!!



    I've read all comments in the thread and i have to say this is the best comment imo. Bevell wasn't coaching Russ but it looked like Russ was coaching Bevell. Let's hope this guy can change it and Russ learn from Brian. As for his past stats i dont care and thats why i quoted this message. Whining if he's good or not is not gonna help us , since most likely he will be our OC. So let's hope he's not Bevell , because i want to see something different offensively. Brian hasnt worked with a QB like Russ and that gives me hopes ! I also hope we bring a good OL coach , have no injuries in our roster and our starters to be healthy (injuries killed us this season) and bring a Defensive Coordinator that cant struggle in 3rd downs.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:21 am
  • Hustle_Wilson wrote:Schotty went full Bevell on the biggest stage the Jets had - the 2011 AFC title game against the Stealers. That game as a whole was very similar to recent Hawks games - awful first half buried in a big hole and a furious 2nd half rally that came up short. A key part of it - 1st and goal at the 2 that ended up with a 4th down stuff thanks to getting too cute passing with Sanchez instead of pounding the rock with Shonn Greene, who had converted a 4th down earlier in the same drive!

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/26/jets-tipped-their-plays-on-steelers-goal-line-stand/

    Meet the new OC...same as the old OC


    Let's not forget 2013 Rams/Seahawks when he decided to put the game in Kellen Clemens hands from the 1 yard line, Instead of Zac Stacey who killed us all day. That might have been the ugliest game in history.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:38 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    austinslater25 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Rex Ryan was just on Brock and Salk this morning to talk about Schottenheimer, he was Rex's OC in NY..............and the one thing that stuck out about what Rex said about him was he's "loyal."

    So that makes perfect sense, Pete went from one yes man to another, an OC that won't question or challenge Pete on how to run his offense.

    I'll give Brian a chance, cause I need to see how the offense looks before taking a dump on it. But my first impression of this hire is meh, a retread coordinator that Pete hired because he's a yes man that'll run things how Pete wants things run............and not someone with any innovation.


    You pretty much nailed my thoughts. I wasn't excited initially, I'm still not all that excited but I'm hopeful the offense will have a little more stability, consistency, run better and along with a well coached offensive line we should see some improvement, maybe even drastically. I'm willing to give it a chance and I can see an avenue where that does take place.


    If I'm trying to analyze this glass half full............Schottenheimer is coming from Georgia in 2015 where he did install a NASTY run game for Kirby Smart.

    So if paired with the right line coach, I could see him making a positive impact on getting our run game back on track. Which was I imagine a big reason Pete likes him.


    Georgia had never had a running game before Brian Schottenheimer? He installed one for the head coach he never worked under? I love the attempt to find something positive though.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:48 am
  • getnasty wrote:
    Hustle_Wilson wrote:Schotty went full Bevell on the biggest stage the Jets had - the 2011 AFC title game against the Stealers. That game as a whole was very similar to recent Hawks games - awful first half buried in a big hole and a furious 2nd half rally that came up short. A key part of it - 1st and goal at the 2 that ended up with a 4th down stuff thanks to getting too cute passing with Sanchez instead of pounding the rock with Shonn Greene, who had converted a 4th down earlier in the same drive!

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/26/jets-tipped-their-plays-on-steelers-goal-line-stand/

    Meet the new OC...same as the old OC


    Let's not forget 2013 Rams/Seahawks when he decided to put the game in Kellen Clemens hands from the 1 yard line, Instead of Zac Stacey who killed us all day. That might have been the ugliest game in history.


    That was a 4th down play, after they had failed to run it in starting at 6th and goal, and they had Richardson on the field because he was the short yardage back. Couldn't get it done and no time outs. Poor clock management by a young QB was the biggest factor to the lambs not getting to the endzone.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:50 am
  • Looking at this from the glass half full angle, if this hire is part of Pete's bigger picture of getting back to strong running game, solid D, and special teams 3 of the 4 teams in the final 4 this Sunday seem to follow that model. To compliment that we have a QB who is one of the better ones in the league to hit big plays in the passing game.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:06 am
  • TruHawkFan9.0 wrote:Quite literally any change is better than keeping Bev


    This is True.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:08 am
  • And to be fair to the guy, he's never had a QB like Wilson. And a lot of his starting guys were injured. Not like he had much to work with. I look forward to him proving people wrong.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:45 am
  • Twitter is a buzz about Defilip getting named the Arizona HC. That would make sense why he was not an option then.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:58 am
  • HawkRiderFan wrote:Looking at this from the glass half full angle, if this hire is part of Pete's bigger picture of getting back to strong running game, solid D, and special teams 3 of the 4 teams in the final 4 this Sunday seem to follow that model. To compliment that we have a QB who is one of the better ones in the league to hit big plays in the passing game.


    After watching the Playoffs so far this year......a running game is essential! No running game....no Playoffs! Let's hope that we can see 100-200 yards running per game this year.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:24 am
  • Sometimes it’s more about how coaches and players mesh. You’ll take a fighter coming into the pros and is struggling in spite of obvious talent, then you see that same fighter change coaches and all of a sudden that magic connections happens and he’s unstoppable.

    The same holds true in pro football. Pete Carroll is a classic example of that. Whoever ends up as our new OC and coach will be hired based on the Seahawks hierarchy’s belief that they will bring that “thing” whatever it is to the field and into our game.

    I don’t know if Bevvell’s or Tom’s departures are a good thing or not. I do know that whatever connections they had with the players were not what they once were, when the players bought in and the results didn’t materialize for them. Once your players start to doubt your abilities and judgement it’s not easily reearned, and change becomes necessary, if for no other reason than to help the players recapture their confidence in their coaches and play callers.

    Pete is an infectious personality that permeates a team to its core on both sides of the line and in the fans as well for that matter. When Pete came to the Emerald City, he breathed new life into the Seahawks and gave all of us the ability to believe that everything was possible, and delivered. I’m nearly 61 years old, with a family history of men dying early, 40s and 50s, I have been a Seahawks fan since there was a Seahawks team, but I was starting to think that I’d be a deadman before I ever saw the Seahawks Win a Super Bowl. He took us there twice and brought it home once. I still think Pete and the Seahawks have a couple more Super Bowls in them.

    It’s going to require putting the right pieces in the right places right now, and I trust that Pete and the higher ups are going to try to pick the right people to fill these openings, and give their team the best possible chance they can to get that accomplished. In reading thru the forum there is no perfect choices, whoever they choose there will be those who praise their insights and those who will criticize those same choices. I guess only time will tell. The changes are only starting in Seattle.

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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:41 am
  • Hawkscanner wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:It's too bad that Graham is UFA. I think he's the perfect TE for Brian Schottenheimer offense. I've been reading up on Schottenheimer and Air Coryell offense. It's a philosophy that thrives on vertical and seam routes. Guess what Graham's strength is/was before he was in Cabevell offense? Yup, He thrived in the seam and vertical routes. I think he could do very well if Schottenheimer's offense performs as planned.

    Good thing is there are some TE's in this draft that can work well - Andrews (OU), Hayden Hurst (NC St), Mike Gesicki (PSU), Ian Thomas (IU), and Fumangalli (Wisc).


    I wrote the following about Jimmy Graham a couple of weeks ago ...

    The issue with Jimmy Graham coming back (in my mind) is twofold ...

    #1 -- $10-15 Million (or whatever the actual contract number would happen to be) is just FAR too much for a 31 year old TE. There are a lot of other areas where that money can be allocated.

    Much more importantly though it's about ...

    #2 -- IDENTITY. So much of the questions we find ourselves asking about this team come down to questions of IDENTITY. Who are the Seattle Seahawks? What are they all about? At the heart of it, what are their core values? For the Hawks under Pete Carroll, the answer to that question has been all about ...

    Hard Nosed In Your Face Defense
    Toughness
    Nastiness and "being the bully" -- punching other teams in the mouth until they cry uncle and submit.
    Running the Football (Marshawn Lynch embodied what this team was all about). It's STILL what they value.

    So, which part of that does Jimmy Graham truly support? I mean, he's a very talented pass catcher (that goes without saying). At 6'7" 265 lbs he's admittedly a match-up nightmare ... and Russell Wilson clearly came to rely upon him. There's a chemistry there.

    BUT ... when you look at Jimmy Graham, does he really embody that "nastiness"? Is he a bully to opposing defenses? Does he shove them around? Is he a good, hard nosed, nasty run blocker?

    The answer to all of that (of course) is No. When push comes to shove, he's a finesse player ... and this Seahawks team has never been about finesse. He's a square peg in a round hole whom we've tried to make fit ever since he's been here. IMO, that missing piece right there (Graham's lack of nastiness, poor run blocking, etc.) has been part of the problem. His lack of blocking ability and nastiness is part of what's ailed this team, in terms of the running game and also blocking for other receivers after the catch.

    To me, I'd rather roll with Nick Vannett in there and see what he can do if you give him the reps that Jimmy Graham had. Vannett reminds me a lot of what this team used to have in Zach Miller. THAT'S more of the kind of TE that fits in this offense. And he's going to be a whole heck of a lot less expensive.

    I'm firmly of the opinion that Graham is gone for all of the reasons noted above.

    http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145145&start=50

    I stand firmly by those exact same comments. Nothing that's happened has changed that opinion. In fact, Pete bringing in Brian Schottenheimer has only cemented that opinion. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe Graham fits what the Seahawks intend to do with the offense moving forward.


    You don't think ten touchdowns fit what the offense wants to do moving forward?
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:50 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Hawkscanner wrote:http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145145&start=50

    I stand firmly by those exact same comments. Nothing that's happened has changed that opinion. In fact, Pete bringing in Brian Schottenheimer has only cemented that opinion. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe Graham fits what the Seahawks intend to do with the offense moving forward.


    You don't think ten touchdowns fit what the offense wants to do moving forward?


    That is an exaggeration. 10 was his high in 3 years here. He has averaged 6 TD's per year here, pretty pedestrian for a $10M receiver. We could do far better with the $$. Smashmouth physical football and Jimmy Graham do not belong in the same sentence.
    Fact: We were a better team without Jimmy Graham.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:57 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:And to be fair to the guy, he's never had a QB like Wilson. And a lot of his starting guys were injured. Not like he had much to work with. I look forward to him proving people wrong.


    He also probably had no interest in running Pete Carroll's philosophy 100% of the time. He is probably looking for a place he can be creative and implement ideas.

    Also, if he doesn't get a HC job this year, he is likely looking for a one-year stepping stone location to that. Seattle is a terrible place to do that this year. They have way too many issues on Offense, especially with the O-line, to fix in one year.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:00 pm
  • Tusc2000 wrote:Brian S. has yet demonstrate any brilliance as an OC.

    I don't know about that; making Mark Sanchez look like a mediocre QB might qualify as brilliant. I'd love to hear your counterargument to that statement. ;)

    Mark Sanchez's stats dropped off noticeably in his last year with the Jets, and he never got better. Schotty left in 2011, and Sanchez's last year with the Jets was 2012.

    Just sayin'. Not any big proof of anything, but perhaps a little suggestive.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:40 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Tusc2000 wrote:Brian S. has yet demonstrate any brilliance as an OC.

    I don't know about that; making Mark Sanchez look like a mediocre QB might qualify as brilliant. I'd love to hear your counterargument to that statement. ;)

    Mark Sanchez's stats dropped off noticeably in his last year with the Jets, and he never got better. Schotty left in 2011, and Sanchez's last year with the Jets was 2012.

    Just sayin'. Not any big proof of anything, but perhaps a little suggestive.


    I'm intrigued to see what he can do with some superb talent and an OL coach worth their salt.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:11 pm
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    Tusc2000 wrote:Brian S. has yet demonstrate any brilliance as an OC.

    I don't know about that; making Mark Sanchez look like a mediocre QB might qualify as brilliant. I'd love to hear your counterargument to that statement. ;)

    Mark Sanchez's stats dropped off noticeably in his last year with the Jets, and he never got better. Schotty left in 2011, and Sanchez's last year with the Jets was 2012.

    Just sayin'. Not any big proof of anything, but perhaps a little suggestive.


    I'm intrigued to see what he can do with some superb talent and an OL coach worth their salt.


    He had one of the best Oline coaches in the NFL from the past 20 years when he was with the Jets. So fingers crossed.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:59 am
  • I'm pulling for the guy big time. Especially since so many people assume he will suck. Give him a chance.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:35 am
  • I hope this works.

    Not sure it looks good though.

    So the read is that Pete wants to commit to a strong running game? A physical running game?

    And it makes sense, with defenses getting lighter and faster to get to the QB quicker, a physical run game is a great strategy.

    But, our best players on offense are in the passing game. Our worst players on offense are in the run game.

    We MIGHT have something close to an above average back in Carson. IF he is healthy and can stay healthy.

    For the most part, we seem to have a pretty middling stable of RBs (again, in one of the best drafts in YEARS for RB and Secondary, we drafted a DT in the first round. SMH. A worthless DT at that.) So we will focus on getting this stable of absolutely average, not even remotely impressive players the ball? Good luck with that winning strategy.

    It strikes me as close to terminally stupid to literally focus your offensive strategy on leveraging your greatest weakness and limiting the contributions of your greatest strength.

    Then again, Pete was kind of known for squandering talent at USC, seems unable to adapt & change, and this is what looks like another example of this.

    Generally, great coaches adjust their strategies to take advantage of their strengths and exploit the opponent weaknesses. The Patriots are the Lords of this, we continually seem to be committed to a strategy regardless of personnel or opponent. Not really a great way to expect a solid outcome...

    But I REALLY REALLY hope to be wrong.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:49 am
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Tusc2000 wrote:Brian S. has yet demonstrate any brilliance as an OC.

    I don't know about that; making Mark Sanchez look like a mediocre QB might qualify as brilliant. I'd love to hear your counterargument to that statement. ;)

    Mark Sanchez's stats dropped off noticeably in his last year with the Jets, and he never got better. Schotty left in 2011, and Sanchez's last year with the Jets was 2012.

    Just sayin'. Not any big proof of anything, but perhaps a little suggestive.


    Sanchez had 32 total TDs in 2011! 26 passing and 6 rushing. That's more than Matt Hasselbeck had in any of his seasons here.

    Granted he threw 18 interceptions whereas never tossed more than 15 until Jim Mora came along, but if Scottenheimer can get 32 TDs out of Sanchez then surely he can - I don't know - double that with Russ??
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:59 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:......It strikes me as close to terminally stupid to literally focus your offensive strategy on leveraging your greatest weakness and limiting the contributions of your greatest strength.

    Then again, Pete was kind of known for squandering talent at USC, seems unable to adapt & change, and this is what looks like another example of this.

    Generally, great coaches adjust their strategies to take advantage of their strengths and exploit the opponent weaknesses. The Patriots are the Lords of this, we continually seem to be committed to a strategy regardless of personnel or opponent. Not really a great way to expect a solid outcome...

    But I REALLY REALLY hope to be wrong.


    That is by far the #1 reason it was so frustrating watch this team the last 2 years. I personally do not think canning Bevell will change this much, but hope I'm wrong there. If this continues, and we are forced to watch shitball 1/2 game each week again, I will be going straight after Pete and passing on the Shotty criticism myself.
    Last edited by Seymour on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:59 am
  • HHawk121 wrote:Schottenheimer appears to get the most out of undertalented players. Bevell wasted highly talented ones. I'll take Schotty all day, every day over Bevell.


    Can you provide some evidence of this please? I don't see that AT ALL. The guy has coached 2 Pro Bowl skill players in 9 years, and that was in the same year. TWO. Brett Favre and Thomas Jones. Favre had 22 TDs and 22 INTs that season, not even Pro Bowl-worthy. The very next season after leaving Schottenheimer, Favre had 33 TDs and 7 INTs (with...uh... Darrell Bevell).

    Schottenheimer had plenty of 1st round talent to work with: Thomas Jones (continued the same level of play he had in Chicago), Sanchez (never developed), Braylon Edwards (NY's #1 WR at the time, didn't have more than 53 catches), Santonio Holmes (every year under Schottenheimer was worse than his 4 years in PIT), Dustin Keller (Schottenheimer's greatest success, 4 good years), Steven Jackson (scored the fewest TDs of his Rams career with Schottenheimer), Kenny Britt (had a 1000 yard season the year after Schottenheimer left), and the end of careers for Tomlinson and Burress.

    And his Offenses were in the Top 15 one time. I see a lot of talented players that he didn't get much out of.

    So he wasted talented players (as you claim Bevell did), except for Jones and Keller. Exactly what undertalented players has he elevated?
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:07 am
  • Can we go get Todd Haley???
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:13 am
  • I really hope I was right and the problem was Bevell.

    Hires like this make me reevaluate and start to fear that the problem with the offense might have been Pete.

    If we start seeing crazy moonshot 'splash' plays being attempted repeatedly, we will all know we were duped.

    I am skeptically optimistic though, so hopeful we can see even an average offense in the first 3 quarters next year.

    This is a team that will have to be great on offense, because the defense simply will not have the great players it did or the players it did will be limited by age/injury etc.

    Either leverage the strengths of this offense, or find that we won't be much more than a wildcard team in the future.

    We cannot just hope the defense will win the bulk of our games for us with the roster we have.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:15 am
  • Or we could just give the guy a chance, not a down with the team and people seem to already have their minds made up.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:21 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Or we could just give the guy a chance, not a down with the team and people seem to already have their minds made up.

    This thread is not the place for logic.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:25 am
  • Good point :lol:
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:27 am
  • So has Brian Schottenheimer and Solaris ever worked together as OC and O line Coach? If not it will be a new formula, we only know what they have done as a result of the team they were on individually. Why the pairing and observations will be interesting.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:35 am
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Or we could just give the guy a chance, not a down with the team and people seem to already have their minds made up.

    This thread is not the place for logic.


    It's actually more logical to believe that Bevell was doing pretty much what Pete wanted rather than he was operating as a rogue OC doing his own thing.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:07 am
  • The problem with logic is that we have to use the data.

    The data says that Brian isn't that great of a hire.

    Apparently his greatest accomplishment is not completely being terrible with supposedly terrible offensive personnel.

    But no real successes.


    We can extrapolate and make a suggestion that with better personnel he MIGHT be better. But then again, we supposedly have some terrible offensive personnel too.

    This is a hire that will likely end up being exactly what it seems.

    Generally, with a few fantastic exceptions, people are what their record says they are.

    Bevel was exactly the same guy that Minnesota warned us about. Harvin was too. They didn't change because they played for a different team. They brought the same strengths and weaknesses with them.

    Lynch was very different. That gamble worked. But it misses a lot more than it hits. And this team LOVES to bring on people that they feel can succeed here but that failed to succeed somewhere else.

    The fact the Rams fans are chortling over this supposed pick makes me worried. But maybe this will be the exception that proves the rule? Doubtful but if we are stuck with it then hope is what we got.

    I would rather bring in someone rising with potential and the ability to contribute new ideas/tactics than a nobody with a mediocre resume that hasn't really done much anywhere he landed. But we might apparently be stuck with him.

    Nothing about this selection screams SuperBowl or even, ready to get past the Wildcard round (assuming we make the playoffs again). More like 'Tread water so people don't stop watching or blow off renewing season tickets'. But the joke is the NFL also stands for Not For Long, so Win Forever wasn't likely to last anyway.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:41 am
  • Seymour wrote:It's actually more logical to believe that Bevell was doing pretty much what Pete wanted rather than he was operating as a rogue OC doing his own thing.

    Actually, it's more logical to believe the truth is between those two extremes.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:12 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Seymour wrote:It's actually more logical to believe that Bevell was doing pretty much what Pete wanted rather than he was operating as a rogue OC doing his own thing.


    Actually, it's more logical to believe the truth is between those two extremes.


    That is why I said "pretty much" what Pete wants rather than exactly what Pete wants.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:14 pm
  • The Truth is out there....

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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:07 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:The problem with logic is that we have to use the data.

    The data says that Brian isn't that great of a hire.

    Apparently his greatest accomplishment is not completely being terrible with supposedly terrible offensive personnel.

    But no real successes.


    We can extrapolate and make a suggestion that with better personnel he MIGHT be better. But then again, we supposedly have some terrible offensive personnel too.

    This is a hire that will likely end up being exactly what it seems.

    Generally, with a few fantastic exceptions, people are what their record says they are.

    Bevel was exactly the same guy that Minnesota warned us about. Harvin was too. They didn't change because they played for a different team. They brought the same strengths and weaknesses with them.

    Lynch was very different. That gamble worked. But it misses a lot more than it hits. And this team LOVES to bring on people that they feel can succeed here but that failed to succeed somewhere else.

    The fact the Rams fans are chortling over this supposed pick makes me worried. But maybe this will be the exception that proves the rule? Doubtful but if we are stuck with it then hope is what we got.

    I would rather bring in someone rising with potential and the ability to contribute new ideas/tactics than a nobody with a mediocre resume that hasn't really done much anywhere he landed. But we might apparently be stuck with him.

    Nothing about this selection screams SuperBowl or even, ready to get past the Wildcard round (assuming we make the playoffs again). More like 'Tread water so people don't stop watching or blow off renewing season tickets'. But the joke is the NFL also stands for Not For Long, so Win Forever wasn't likely to last anyway.


    You can use that logic for not bringing in Pete Carroll also, failed in the NFL, went to the College game and had his pick of talent in the Nation and won with it.

    Chemistry of a collective group of people many times shines brighter then the one individual, that's what we have to hope happens here going forward.

    Old groups message went stale as the promotions happened and things were not quite the same after each one. Pete is hitting the full reset button here I think. Hard to catch lighting in a bottle once, doing it twice at least you know it can be done.
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Re: Brian Schottenheimer
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:20 pm
  • Who could have been hired to make some of you happy? Seriously.

    I agree it would have been fun to roll the dice on an up-and-coming position coach, but that's no guarantee of success.

    Experienced, winning coaches don't drop from trees and wait around for job offers. And they don't make lateral moves. If you ever thought a HC cadidate like Josh McDaniels, or even DeFilipo, were going to fill this post, you were never going to be happy.
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