Russell Wilson

BigBill1945

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With the new O coordinator and O line coordinator will we see any difference how Russell operates? It is anybody's guess what will happen to the O line. So far I have to wonder if they will change it or keep it. Whatever happens, I Russell needs to learn how to get the ball out faster or he is going to get killed. I do not see him either as a straight pocket QB. I look at Tom Brady who has little or no mobility. He has learned how to get the ball out fast. I do hope that the Schott who was also a QB coach gets Russell more comfortable with a quicker release. It is tough watching him in the pocket when the line is being pushed into him. I know Schott is more of a passing guy but Pete favors the run. Should we work on better blocking schemes for the O line, dump a few players, or get Russ to work on getting the ball our faster or should we keep the status quo and get another Todd Gurley/Fournette type back? What say you?
 

RussB

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Depends on the offensive line. Wilson has had a bad o line for so long now that he is just used to bailing the pocket so much. He gets pressured instantly and has to run around and try to make some schoolyard stuff happen. He even does it when he doesnt have to and actually has a clean pocket.

He just needs a consistent o line where he can make reads from the pocket and needs to have a good offensive coordinator dialing up the plays and game planning to attack defenses. No more of this scramble BS its not successful long term they need an actual offensive system. His mobility will still come in handy though.
 

hedgehawk

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RussB":1op5cg6m said:
Depends on the offensive line. Wilson has had a bad o line for so long now that he is just used to bailing the pocket so much. He gets pressured instantly and has to run around and try to make some schoolyard stuff happen. He even does it when he doesnt have to and actually has a clean pocket.

He just needs a consistent o line where he can make reads from the pocket and needs to have a good offensive coordinator dialing up the plays and game planning to attack defenses. No more of this scramble BS its not successful long term they need an actual offensive system. His mobility will still come in handy though.

This is so right on imo. Good post.
 

vin.couve12

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It's not all the line in that scenario. He can't step up in the pocket and see Baldwin on a shallow cross, for instance. Physics literally dictates it's not possible. Seeing is the problem, not release point. He can step up soemwhat on longer routes, but not shallow ones. It's one of the same reasons why he takes deeper pass drops (an actual stat) and also doesn't operate much under center. Not that I expect crazies to admit things like physics, but a RB to go along with Carson and a better OL should maximize our play action game again. I was laughing at how wide open the Jags receivers and tight ends were against PIT. Their running game forced the PIT defense take a half second to read run and it slowed their defense down a lot.

We get that going and RW's rating goes back up to what it was a few years ago. If not, it'll just be more of the same. MAYBE playoffs, but an early exit.

Brees, Rapey, and Ryan are all home right now. They lost to no name QBs on teams who run the ball, play defense and ST, and just aren't all about that lie that is hero ball.
 

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but inch taller Brees has no problem.

I thought having second best passer rating of all time would finally dispel BS narrative.


3 inch taller and 6'2 Aaron Rodgers is also magically taller than his 6'5 and up lineman
 

Scorpion05

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Can we really stop with this Brady nonsense. Brady has all day to throw. When he doesn't, he folds like a cheap coward. When defenses play press coverage Brady still has to hold the ball. Brady has also never consistently been without a running game

Only 2 of Russell Wilson's touchdowns this year were on broken plays. Otherwise he stayed in the pocket, even if he had 2.5 seconds from the snap to throw. Russell is held to one of the most unfair standards in the league where he's somehow expected to execute perfectly the 5% of the time he has a perfectly clean pocket, get the ball out with no running game, and oh by the way make magic happen. How simple and easy :sarcasm_on:

I'm not here to attack, constructive criticism of Russell is okay but I feel that my fellow fans are holding to some stubborn notions about the guy
 

RussB

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vin.couve12":1piuljik said:
It's not all the line in that scenario. He can't step up in the pocket and see Baldwin on a shallow cross, for instance. Physics literally dictates it's not possible. Seeing is the problem, not release point. He can step up soemwhat on longer routes, but not shallow ones. It's one of the same reasons why he takes deeper pass drops (an actual stat) and also doesn't operate much under center. Not that I expect crazies to admit things like physics, but a RB to go along with Carson and a better OL should maximize our play action game again. I was laughing at how wide open the Jags receivers and tight ends were against PIT. Their running game forced the PIT defense take a half second to read run and it slowed their defense down a lot.

We get that going and RW's rating goes back up to what it was a few years ago. If not, it'll just be more of the same. MAYBE playoffs, but an early exit.

Brees, Rapey, and Ryan are all home right now. They lost to no name QBs on teams who run the ball, play defense and ST, and just aren't all about that lie that is hero ball.
Wilson can operate from the pocket, he just needs consistent protection which has basically been non existant ever since late 2015. In the last part of that season, the o line actually played very well and wilson went on a historic stretch from the pocket.

Hopefully with cable gone there will be more of that, having a better offensive coordinator who can actually gameplan will help too. I dont think wilson is so short it prevents him from stepping up in the pocket, him and brees and are about the same size and brees is an all time great pocket passer.
 

Fade

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Russell is a film junky. When the O-Line puts out on film a consistent pocket, he will begin to stay in the pocket. The film the last two years told him to bail, so he did rightfully so. He would be on IR otherwise.

2015 proves his height being an impairment in the pocket is greatly exaggerated. Is his vision at time impaired? Yes, but consistently? I would say no.

Shallow crosses at times give him trouble due to impaired sight lines, but the biggest thing that gives RW problems would have to be interior lineman getting pushed back into his lap. He literally can't see when that happens, and you will see RW pull the ball down and look to escape when it does happen. Most QBs typically just stand in there and fire away given this particular scenario I'm trying to articulate, but Russell can't. He needs space.

The Russell holding the ball thing, is where I think the "he can't see" thing comes from. When really most of the time, it's all of his receivers running deep, and he has to wait for the routes to develop. Pete Carroll is obsessed with the deep ball. Seattle has been allergic to intermediate route concepts, and a lack of safety valve options on deeper routes, making it even harder on their QB to be successful.

Also to early in games Pete doesn't want Russell taking risks so he wants Russell to only pull the trigger if a guy is wide open. Which forces Russ to hold the ball, and also I think it leads to inaccuracy because you're overthinking it and trying to place it in a perfect spot. Rather than --> see target, hit target. Which is a better philosophy imo.
 

vin.couve12

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Latter half 2015 was a lot of quick throws in around 2.5 seconds (NOT diluted by bubble screens). A pocket rarely ever came into play. He was 3 or 5 step drop and throw to the first read (designed play) on the majority of snaps. He wasn't subtlety moving around in a pocket for 4 to 5 seconds.

It was the only time we saw an offense like that. Ironically, it was probably Bevell's greatest couple months of his life. Quick one reads in passing and quick developing run plays with outstanding run blocking durinh that period.
 

vin.couve12

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Fade":3u5drhl6 said:
Russell is a film junky. When the O-Line puts out on film a consistent pocket, he will begin to stay in the pocket. The film the last two years told him to bail, so he did rightfully so. He would be on IR otherwise.

2015 proves his height being an impairment in the pocket is greatly exaggerated. Is his vision at time impaired? Yes, but consistently? I would say no.

Shallow crosses at times give him trouble due to impaired sight lines, but the biggest thing that gives RW problems would have to be interior lineman getting pushed back into his lap. He literally can't see when that happens, and you will see RW pull the ball down and look to escape when it does happen. Most QBs typically just stand in there and fire away given this particular scenario I'm trying to articulate, but Russell can't. He needs space.

The Russell holding the ball thing, is where I think the "he can't see" thing comes from. When really most of the time, it's all of his receivers running deep, and he has to wait for the routes to develop. Pete Carroll is obsessed with the deep ball. Seattle has been allergic to intermediate route concepts, and a lack of safety valve options on deeper routes, making it even harder on their QB to be successful.

Also to early in games Pete doesn't want Russell taking risks so he wants Russell to only pull the trigger if a guy is wide open. Which forces Russ to hold the ball, and also I think it leads to inaccuracy because you're overthinking it and trying to place it in a perfect spot. Rather than --> see target, hit target. Which is a better philosophy imo.

Dude, I think you actually get it. Like ACTUALLY GET IT! Take a piece of plywood for instance. Get up close and your field of view is just gone. Back off and you get a little vision back.

It's the reason for some of the deepest pass drops in the league, it's the reason for so much shotgun, it's the reason why he has a hard time stepping up.

And I also agree that when you have 6'6 skinny bootches (relative to the position anyway) that get pushed back....it magnifies something that already needs to be overcame.
 

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Smellyman":3gxn9frl said:
but inch taller Brees has no problem.

I though having second best passer rating of all time would finally dispel BS narrative.


3 inch taller and 6'2 Aaron Rodgers is also magically taller than his 6
'5 and up lineman

Yes, it's physics at work again. He is superman and can see right through their heads without a problem. In fact every QB not named Russell can see right through 6'6" olinemens heads. And don't try to argue that humans eyes are actually 6" below the top of the head because that doesn't matter with xray vision. :sarcasm_off:
 

vin.couve12

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All that said, it's kind of amazing what dude has done with it all.

Just don't realistically expect dude to become some pocket awareness guru. He's still gonna escape outside and there are still going to be holding penalties.
 

Seafan

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It's the running game. Brees has a great running game. When RW had one he was being touted as a top 5 QB.
 

chris98251

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Screens check down routes, deep balls and seam routes on time, Wilson is going to have to read and fire and hit the open guy in progression and not look for a bigger piece of the pie. I believe that is what we will see. Passing lanes should be there if the line is coached up with a different take on the ZBS scheme.
 

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Scorpion05":2ua36ijf said:
Can we really stop with this Brady nonsense. Brady has all day to throw. When he doesn't, he folds like a cheap coward. When defenses play press coverage Brady still has to hold the ball. Brady has also never consistently been without a running game

Only 2 of Russell Wilson's touchdowns this year were on broken plays. Otherwise he stayed in the pocket, even if he had 2.5 seconds from the snap to throw. Russell is held to one of the most unfair standards in the league where he's somehow expected to execute perfectly the 5% of the time he has a perfectly clean pocket, get the ball out with no running game, and oh by the way make magic happen. How simple and easy :sarcasm_on:

I'm not here to attack, constructive criticism of Russell is okay but I feel that my fellow fans are holding to some stubborn notions about the guy

Absolutely...He PROVED in the second half of 2015 that he CAN be every bit a great a pocket passer as ANY Quarterback in the League.
With a HALF decent Blocking scheme, and a RB or two to help him to keep Defenses honest, the sky is his limit.
2017, over 4,000 yards without ANY Run Game?....Cable was responsible for Coaching up the Offensive Line, and providing him Pass Protect, & Run assist....Cable's gone, as is the guy that was charged to draw up plays, UTILIZING Cables Cruddy Blockers.....Yeah..Good luck figuring out how to work those square pegs into those round holes Darryl.
Now, a whole bunch of DB haters have seen their wishes come true, NOW, they need to QUIT CRYING.
 

vin.couve12

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There was nothing proven there. You're talkig about maybe 8% of the overall sample size of his career.

Don't take up science at any time. 8% doesn't mean jack monkey squat unless you're talking about alternative facts.

On top of that, everyone at the time was talking about the quick throw design of the offense. It had noth8ng to do with a pocket. It was 1-2 read and out.

I swear, some people WANT the Seahawks to be losers. RW is awesome, but he's just a QB...like Brees, like Rapey, like Ryan. All of whom are losers to guys with no names.

Just a QB.

And a LOSER. Like man worshipers.
 

Fade

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Just to put it out there RW was tied with Peyton Manning for highest rated passer in the pocket for the '12 & '13 seasons combined a 32 game sample size. So he has proven it plenty of times that he can get it done from the pocket. The second half of the '15 season was utterly ridiculous though, and what everyone remembers. It was damn special, like literally never been done before special.
 

Seymour

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The difference is, the other teams are hitting great draft picks and we get projects and DQ's. Getting rid of Cable helps those odds go way up too.
 

EverydayImRusselin

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vin.couve12":3h5mrdms said:
There was nothing proven there. You're talkig about maybe 8% of the overall sample size of his career.

Don't take up science at any time. 8% doesn't mean jack monkey squat unless you're talking about alternative facts.

On top of that, everyone at the time was talking about the quick throw design of the offense. It had noth8ng to do with a pocket. It was 1-2 read and out.

I swear, some people WANT the Seahawks to be losers. RW is awesome, but he's just a QB...like Brees, like Rapey, like Ryan. All of whom are losers to guys with no names.

Just a QB.

And a LOSER. Like man worshipers.


It sounds like you are talking about 2 different things. Passing from the pocket vs moving around inside the pocket and not leaving.
 
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