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"Holdout" news of Earl Thomas

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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:05 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Some of you are going to have to decide which one it is:

    1 - Earl Thomas is an aging player in the secondary that is only going to get slower and is starting to get injured.

    2 - Earl Thomas is worth at least a 1st round pick and probably more.

    Even great players go for cheap when the team loses leverage though. Getting a 1st for ET is a pipe dream.
    Yes, WE like to trade 1st round picks for the players. But most FOs are not that stupid.

    And more significantly, ET has made it clear that he has certain destinations he would prefer. I highly doubt he would accept a trade to somewhere like Cleveland even if Cleveland gave up a 1st to get him.

    You don't think the potential landing spots for ET are not aware the Seahawks wouldn't have many options if they need to try to trade him? He is going to be an older player at a high salary, the Seahawks will have very little to bargain with.

    More significantly, Apna pointed out the parallel between the Ravens (who used to be the dominant defense and won with defense repeatedly) and the Seahawks. When the Ravens lost their impact D players because of age - they did not improve. They got worse. Because you cannot 'next man up' great players unless you have tremendous depth or some kind of tremendous development pipeline (neither of which we have).

    At this point, it is all speculation. This FO will do whatever it does, likely waste even more money on at least one worthless FA signing and probably offset whatever gains we would get in letting ET go anyway.

    But given the difference he makes for this team, we probably need to keep him. We are not the Patriots. We do not have the ability to shed great players and reproduce them with productive replacements.



    Unless he has a no trade clause, Earl has no say if or where he could be traded.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:11 am
  • Exactly, trade him to whatever team offers the most. He has no choice in the matter.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:12 am
  • original poster wrote:The problem is letting is contract run out isn't possible, neither is tagging him in 2019, he will likely not step on the field this coming season without an extension so there are 3 options. Extend him, trade him for awful value or cut him.

    If he doesn’t step on the field for 2018 his contract rolls over to 2019 as he’d still have a year left on his contract he didn’t fullfil.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:14 am
  • Bobblehead wrote:
    Mistashoesta wrote:If you think Earl is literally talking about "Eating" for survival when he says he's got to eat for him and his family, you're wrong. I promise you, your middle class middle age definition of having to eat, and a bunch of millionaires and their younger age groups definition of having to eat are two totally different things.


    He needs more cars?


    It's a business, man. He want's what he's worth. I'm not sure what you do for a living, but I'm pretty sure you think you are good at what you do, and you probably most certainly are. But what happens if you were to find out that another employee made more than you do when you know you're more qualified? I bet your attitude about continuing to work for that establishment will begin to weigh heavy on you.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:17 am
  • God forbid a player ever sticks to his contract. I know it's not reality these days, but it would be nice for once......
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:31 am
  • oldhawkfan wrote:Unless he has a no trade clause, Earl has no say if or where he could be traded.


    True, but if it's a team Earl doesn't want to sign a long term deal with, then that diminished his trade value for us.

    Best case scenario is he's happy with the team he's traded to, and they agree upon an extension. That means a higher or more picks for us..........cause if we trade him to Cleveland then he's going to just play out his deal and leave.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:59 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    original poster wrote:The problem is letting is contract run out isn't possible, neither is tagging him in 2019, he will likely not step on the field this coming season without an extension so there are 3 options. Extend him, trade him for awful value or cut him.

    If he doesn’t step on the field for 2018 his contract rolls over to 2019 as he’d still have a year left on his contract he didn’t fullfil.


    Of course, he’ll just do what every other player has ever down and come in at exactly the right time of the season so that doesn’t happen.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:13 am
  • Players have no ethical obligation to honor their contract.

    The idea that ET, or any player, should honor their contract is dated and ridiculous.

    People break contracts in business ALL THE TIME. There are terms in the contract that deal with what happens when a contract is fulfilled and those are the limitations you are bound to. Everything else is fair game.

    Next time a team releases a player with years still on their contract, please see if you hold them to the same weird standard some of you think that players should be stuck to.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:22 am
  • Doesn't make it right. And these guys crying poverty is laughable. How can he feed his family on millions? Be careful what you wish for, it isn't always better to leave a good situation.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:47 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:Unless he has a no trade clause, Earl has no say if or where he could be traded.


    True, but if it's a team Earl doesn't want to sign a long term deal with, then that diminished his trade value for us.

    Best case scenario is he's happy with the team he's traded to, and they agree upon an extension. That means a higher or more picks for us..........cause if we trade him to Cleveland then he's going to just play out his deal and leave.


    Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps a team has faith that they will be able to work out a long term deal. Some trades are based on a renegotiated contract, others are not.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:53 am
  • oldhawkfan wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:Unless he has a no trade clause, Earl has no say if or where he could be traded.


    True, but if it's a team Earl doesn't want to sign a long term deal with, then that diminished his trade value for us.

    Best case scenario is he's happy with the team he's traded to, and they agree upon an extension. That means a higher or more picks for us..........cause if we trade him to Cleveland then he's going to just play out his deal and leave.


    Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps a team has faith that they will be able to work out a long term deal. Some trades are based on a renegotiated contract, others are not.


    I don't know of any major player trade that the particulars of the extension (Harvin), or the understanding that this was a one year rental (Richardson) wasn't known or worked out ahead of time.

    It's the entire basis of determining the trade value.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:57 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Players have no ethical obligation to honor their contract.

    The idea that ET, or any player, should honor their contract is dated and ridiculous.

    People break contracts in business ALL THE TIME. There are terms in the contract that deal with what happens when a contract is fulfilled and those are the limitations you are bound to. Everything else is fair game.

    Next time a team releases a player with years still on their contract, please see if you hold them to the same weird standard some of you think that players should be stuck to.


    Great post.

    Weird that so many fans expect players to just shut up and play out their contracts, but apparently it doesn't bother them at all when a team cuts a guy with time still left on his contract.

    If it is so important that contracts be honored, it should go both ways. Why do teams get a pass and players don't?
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:04 am
  • He'll probably get his way regardless. He needs to finish his career here in Seattle. Getting a new contract is one thing, but the way he is going about it? Meh, it's 2018, players are just different. Doesn't mean I have to agree with how they go about it :lol:
    Oh well, none of us have any control over it, whatever happens happens. He def has some good trade value though. IF he forces their hand. He's one of my all time favorite Hawks, I wear his Jersey etc. I just want him here in Seattle.
    Last edited by SoulfishHawk on Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:05 am
  • Chapow wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Players have no ethical obligation to honor their contract.

    The idea that ET, or any player, should honor their contract is dated and ridiculous.

    People break contracts in business ALL THE TIME. There are terms in the contract that deal with what happens when a contract is fulfilled and those are the limitations you are bound to. Everything else is fair game.

    Next time a team releases a player with years still on their contract, please see if you hold them to the same weird standard some of you think that players should be stuck to.


    Great post.

    Weird that so many fans expect players to just shut up and play out their contracts, but apparently it doesn't bother them at all when a team cuts a guy with time still left on his contract.

    If it is so important that contracts be honored, it should go both ways. Why do teams get a pass and players don't?


    It has to do with how contracts are structured. Teams often build in higher paydays towards the end of the contract in non-guaranteed monies which gives the player the ability to say he's worth a higher average salary than he's probably ever going to receive, meanwhile, it gives teams the option of being able to still field a winning team by cutting loose players who aren't performing up to the value of those final years of the deal.

    If this were not a salary cap league, then you'd have a great point, but you can't continue to pay a player who isn't performing for the full length of a contract and remain competitive in a salary cap situation such as the NFL. It's just not feasible. The only way around that would be to have shorter contracts. This would mean less guaranteed monies, because players wouldn't be able to get the fat signing bonuses that teams spread out over the life of the contract.

    In reality, players know that going into the contract when they sign it. They can (and at times they do) sign shorter deals with little to no signing bonus which allows them to negotiate a new deal much sooner, but they risk not having the increased value they believe they are going to get in the next deal. By signing longer deals, they get more up front in the signing bonus, and thus end up with a higher amount of guaranteed money sooner rather than later.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:08 am
  • And when they sign a huge deal, there is no complaints from them. Salaries start to rise and all the sudden, they are unhappy w/their contracts. Many deals seem way too high at the time, only to look like a bargain a few years later. Doesn't make it right for a guy to hold out 2 or 3 years in to a deal, especially when the team made him the highest or one of the highest paid in the league at his position at the time he signed the deal.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:45 am
  • Coug_Hawk08 wrote:Lol @ Earl saying he would not feel comfortable playing without a long term deal. Saying he’s gotta feed his family.

    Sick.


    Uhhh, but he didn't say he's gotta feed his family.

    How offended can you really be when you're simply inventing him having said something that he didn't say?

    He said, "I just gotta protect myself. At the end of the day, me and my family, that's the first thing."
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:19 pm
  • My take is however the team handles the situation is fine by me. I'm not going to want one thing or the other. I've had pretty much no say in anything this team has ever decided so why should this be any different.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:31 pm
  • Good point, we have no control or say so. We can have our opinions on it, but whatever the team decides to do, we roll with it.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:34 pm
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Coug_Hawk08 wrote:Lol @ Earl saying he would not feel comfortable playing without a long term deal. Saying he’s gotta feed his family.

    Sick.


    Uhhh, but he didn't say he's gotta feed his family.

    How offended can you really be when you're simply inventing him having said something that he didn't say?

    He said, "I just gotta protect myself. At the end of the day, me and my family, that's the first thing."


    Once you slight a fan base they will find things or even invent stuff to fit their narrative
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:48 pm
  • Chapow wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Players have no ethical obligation to honor their contract.

    The idea that ET, or any player, should honor their contract is dated and ridiculous.

    People break contracts in business ALL THE TIME. There are terms in the contract that deal with what happens when a contract is fulfilled and those are the limitations you are bound to. Everything else is fair game.

    Next time a team releases a player with years still on their contract, please see if you hold them to the same weird standard some of you think that players should be stuck to.


    Great post.

    Weird that so many fans expect players to just shut up and play out their contracts, but apparently it doesn't bother them at all when a team cuts a guy with time still left on his contract.

    If it is so important that contracts be honored, it should go both ways. Why do teams get a pass and players don't?

    Stunning lack of knowledge regarding contract law displayed in both of these posts.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:06 pm
  • Sun Tzu wrote:Stunning lack of knowledge regarding contract law displayed in both of these posts.


    It's quite literally impossible to know what the legalities of a contract are that you've never seen. When it comes to contracts like this, we can only speak in generalities, because only a small number of people are actually privy to the exact wording in the document. Heck, I'd bet a large contingent of the players don't know exactly what's going on with their contracts, that's why they pay agents and the like to take care of those issues and explain to them what they need to know.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:52 pm
  • Sun Tzu wrote:
    Chapow wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Players have no ethical obligation to honor their contract.

    The idea that ET, or any player, should honor their contract is dated and ridiculous.

    People break contracts in business ALL THE TIME. There are terms in the contract that deal with what happens when a contract is fulfilled and those are the limitations you are bound to. Everything else is fair game.

    Next time a team releases a player with years still on their contract, please see if you hold them to the same weird standard some of you think that players should be stuck to.


    Great post.

    Weird that so many fans expect players to just shut up and play out their contracts, but apparently it doesn't bother them at all when a team cuts a guy with time still left on his contract.

    If it is so important that contracts be honored, it should go both ways. Why do teams get a pass and players don't?


    Stunning lack of knowledge regarding contract law displayed in both of these posts.


    Stunning amount of condescension and smuggery in such a short post.

    If you think our lack of knowledge is so stunning, why you don't contribute something to the conversation besides a drive by sniping?
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:53 pm
  • Most contracts have an entire section devoted to what happens if you fail to perform or walk away from a contact. They usually also have very specific definitions of what constitutes a breach and what the penalties are.

    I am certain his would have something in there that covers this, and therefore as long as he sticks with what the contract allowed and enforces, or he pays the appropriate penalty (since obviously if he CAN 'break' his contract then clearly they cannot enforce specific performance can they?) - then it shouldn't matter.

    But my statement was very different from focusing on his legal obligation, so the response with the quip about contract law shows a stunning lack of reading comprehension if anything. He is under no ETHICAL obligation to abide by his contract.

    Just as I have no problem with someone breaking their mortgage contract by sending 'Jingle Mail' back, I certainly don't begrudge him deciding he wants a better deal and refuses to play by holding out if he does not receive it His health is the one at risk and his option to decide not to participate is his, financial penalties might be a part of the consequence of that decision but those are his to make.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:12 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Most contracts have an entire section devoted to what happens if you fail to perform or walk away from a contact. They usually also have very specific definitions of what constitutes a breach and what the penalties are.

    I am certain his would have something in there that covers this, and therefore as long as he sticks with what the contract allowed and enforces, or he pays the appropriate penalty (since obviously if he CAN 'break' his contract then clearly they cannot enforce specific performance can they?) - then it shouldn't matter.

    But my statement was very different from focusing on his legal obligation, so the response with the quip about contract law shows a stunning lack of reading comprehension if anything. He is under no ETHICAL obligation to abide by his contract.

    Just as I have no problem with someone breaking their mortgage contract by sending 'Jingle Mail' back, I certainly don't begrudge him deciding he wants a better deal and refuses to play by holding out if he does not receive it His health is the one at risk and his option to decide not to participate is his, financial penalties might be a part of the consequence of that decision but those are his to make.


    You're overthinking it.

    It's very clear in the CBA, if the player wants to hold out, they have to come back by week 7 (as Duane Brown did) in order for the current year to count on their current deal.

    So if Earl doesn't get an extension and we can't find a suitable trade partner, then he'll probably hold out til week 7 and then play out his current contract minus six game checks.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:31 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Most contracts have an entire section devoted to what happens if you fail to perform or walk away from a contact. They usually also have very specific definitions of what constitutes a breach and what the penalties are.

    I am certain his would have something in there that covers this, and therefore as long as he sticks with what the contract allowed and enforces, or he pays the appropriate penalty (since obviously if he CAN 'break' his contract then clearly they cannot enforce specific performance can they?) - then it shouldn't matter.

    But my statement was very different from focusing on his legal obligation, so the response with the quip about contract law shows a stunning lack of reading comprehension if anything. He is under no ETHICAL obligation to abide by his contract.

    Just as I have no problem with someone breaking their mortgage contract by sending 'Jingle Mail' back, I certainly don't begrudge him deciding he wants a better deal and refuses to play by holding out if he does not receive it His health is the one at risk and his option to decide not to participate is his, financial penalties might be a part of the consequence of that decision but those are his to make.


    You're overthinking it.

    It's very clear in the CBA, if the player wants to hold out, they have to come back by week 7 (as Duane Brown did) in order for the current year to count on their current deal.

    So if Earl doesn't get an extension and we can't find a suitable trade partner, then he'll probably hold out til week 7 and then play out his current contract minus six game checks.


    Well, minus 6 game checks plus whatever fines he incurs for missing training camp and other mandatory sessions.

    Either way, I think we are getting WAY ahead of ourselves. We have a long time for them to do what they are going to do before it even comes down to this. The likelihood of a holdout is very small IMO. We'll either trade him (and I'm certain there are willing partners) or we'll extend him. They've got a history of negotiating extensions when it comes to the final year of a contract, so I'm not overly concerned about a holdout at this point.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:52 pm
  • kidhawk wrote: They've got a history of negotiating extensions when it comes to the final year of a contract, so I'm not overly concerned about a holdout at this point.


    That's what I'm afraid of.

    Love Earl, but this is where the buck has to stop if we want to stop getting into bad extensions that bite us in the butt 2-3 years later crippling our cap.

    Find the best trade partner, get as many picks as possible, and get back to the young nasty hungry defense Pete and John know how to build.

    Paying Earl 15M+ and hoping he doesn't continue to miss games for the next 3-4 years would be a mistake.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:04 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    kidhawk wrote: They've got a history of negotiating extensions when it comes to the final year of a contract, so I'm not overly concerned about a holdout at this point.


    That's what I'm afraid of.

    Love Earl, but this is where the buck has to stop if we want to stop getting into bad extensions that bite us in the butt 2-3 years later crippling our cap.

    Find the best trade partner, get as many picks as possible, and get back to the young nasty hungry defense Pete and John know how to build.

    Paying Earl 15M+ and hoping he doesn't continue to miss games for the next 3-4 years would be a mistake.


    I'm sure you're being overly dramatic with the $15 million number, because there's just no way he sees that average figure, but you just can't replace a guy like Earl very easily. It obviously comes down to the money, and I am for keeping him if the contract is reasonable, but that's another item we have no clue what either side is considering at this time. If they sign him to a more back heavy deal, then great for us, but if they sign him to a front heavy deal, then it wouldn't be all that great. A talent like ET comes to your team maybe once a decade (if you're lucky). I wouldn't walk away from him without at least trying to fit him into our team responsibly(financially speaking).
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:06 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    kidhawk wrote: They've got a history of negotiating extensions when it comes to the final year of a contract, so I'm not overly concerned about a holdout at this point.


    That's what I'm afraid of.

    Love Earl, but this is where the buck has to stop if we want to stop getting into bad extensions that bite us in the butt 2-3 years later crippling our cap.

    Find the best trade partner, get as many picks as possible, and get back to the young nasty hungry defense Pete and John know how to build.

    Paying Earl 15M+ and hoping he doesn't continue to miss games for the next 3-4 years would be a mistake.


    Are you sure they know how to repeat the success they had with the LOB or how to build a young nasty defense? The haven't drafted a pro-bowl/all-pro player since 2012. Maybe Frank can get there, but who else? Reed? It's too early to tell for Shaq or any of the players drafted last year, but they haven't shown it so far (not saying they won't get there).

    It just seems that a lot of people here think John and Pete can easily just replace these players even though they haven't shown they can.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:34 pm
  • LolaRox wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    kidhawk wrote: They've got a history of negotiating extensions when it comes to the final year of a contract, so I'm not overly concerned about a holdout at this point.


    That's what I'm afraid of.

    Love Earl, but this is where the buck has to stop if we want to stop getting into bad extensions that bite us in the butt 2-3 years later crippling our cap.

    Find the best trade partner, get as many picks as possible, and get back to the young nasty hungry defense Pete and John know how to build.

    Paying Earl 15M+ and hoping he doesn't continue to miss games for the next 3-4 years would be a mistake.


    Are you sure they know how to repeat the success they had with the LOB or how to build a young nasty defense? The haven't drafted a pro-bowl/all-pro player since 2012. Maybe Frank can get there, but who else? Reed? It's too early to tell for Shaq or any of the players drafted last year, but they haven't shown it so far (not saying they won't get there).

    It just seems that a lot of people here think John and Pete can easily just replace these players even though they haven't shown they can.


    Honestly, players like Sherman & Thomas are generational players. We may be able to still have a good defense under Pete, but there's very little chance of getting equally talented players immediately upon losing them.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:39 pm
  • kidhawk wrote:Honestly, players like Sherman & Thomas are generational players. We may be able to still have a good defense under Pete, but there's very little chance of getting equally talented players immediately upon losing them.


    Seriously.

    Do people think the Broncos should trade Von Miller because he's getting older and slowing down? How about the Falcons and Julio Jones?

    Like Earl Thomas, both of those guys are 28 years old too. Both of 'em make more money than Thomas also (Miller literally makes twice as much as Thomas).

    You just don't move on from 28 year old All Pros. I guess it has happened, but it doesn't make much sense.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:01 am
  • With a strong possibility that Kam, Bennett, Sheldon R. all won't be back, some cap room should come available. Let alone Avril. IF cap space can work out, hell yes you get him re-signed. He's one of the best Safeties in the history of the game.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:22 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Do people think the Broncos should trade Von Miller because he's getting older and slowing down? How about the Falcons and Julio Jones?.


    I bet if you went to Bronco and Falcon fan sites, there would absolutely be people saying this.

    Every player, even the best players in the league get to the point in their career where their team has to determine whether their salary justifies their play, and potential for injury.

    It's pretty simple with Earl, is he worth 15M a year at age 29 with his injury history the past three years? Maybe if we had a more cap space and not a history of bad extensions I'd say yes.

    But we don't have either.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:52 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    Do people think the Broncos should trade Von Miller because he's getting older and slowing down? How about the Falcons and Julio Jones?.


    I bet if you went to Bronco and Falcon fan sites, there would absolutely be people saying this.

    Every player, even the best players in the league get to the point in their career where their team has to determine whether their salary justifies their play, and potential for injury.

    It's pretty simple with Earl, is he worth 15M a year at age 29 with his injury history the past three years? Maybe if we had a more cap space and not a history of bad extensions I'd say yes.

    But we don't have either.


    First of all, I'm not sure where you keep coming up with the $15 million figure. Berry (which is the current benchmark) is only getting $13 million. Going $2 million per year over that is a bit high I believe. It'd be more likely to be in the under $14 million range.

    Second, it's all about structure. You give the man a signing bonus and minimal salary early and create a higher back end of the contract allowing you an out if he isn't still performing. Just because the deal averages (let's say) $14 million at first glance, doesn't mean it actually pays that over the actual term he's here.

    Basically, we can't say he's going to be overpriced until we see a deal. Honestly, there are two pieces of the defense that I don't believe we can do without and that's Earl and Bobby. They are only 1 year different in age, and Wagner has also had some injury issues lately. He's due $12 million this year and $12.5 next year before becoming a free agent. Earl is worth that easily IMO
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:54 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    Do people think the Broncos should trade Von Miller because he's getting older and slowing down? How about the Falcons and Julio Jones?.


    I bet if you went to Bronco and Falcon fan sites, there would absolutely be people saying this.

    Every player, even the best players in the league get to the point in their career where their team has to determine whether their salary justifies their play, and potential for injury.


    I think we'd probably have to go to Broncos and Falcons fan sites to find out (and neither of us care enough to do so), but personally I'd be really surprised if there were a bunch of Bronco and Falcons fans arguing that their teams should trade Miller or Jones, and that's even with their higher salaries.

    And of course totally agreed that everyone gets to a point in their career where a team has to question if their play justifies their salary, I just in no way think that someone's age 28 season is when people start making that calculation. I think we'd be hard pressed to come up with an age that isn't 28 that's generally thought of as being squarely in the heart of a player's prime.

    And there aren't many examples of multiple All Pros right in their primes that are getting cast off or traded. In the last 10-15 years literally the only one I can think of is Ndamukong Suh. Maybe there's one or two more? It just doesn't happen. When you have an All Pro in his prime you hang on to him, and pay him what he's worth to do so.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:57 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    Do people think the Broncos should trade Von Miller because he's getting older and slowing down? How about the Falcons and Julio Jones?.


    I bet if you went to Bronco and Falcon fan sites, there would absolutely be people saying this.

    Every player, even the best players in the league get to the point in their career where their team has to determine whether their salary justifies their play, and potential for injury.

    It's pretty simple with Earl, is he worth 15M a year at age 29 with his injury history the past three years? Maybe if we had a more cap space and not a history of bad extensions I'd say yes.

    But we don't have either.


    Agree, you find this on any board.

    Or how bout the Dolphins trading Ndamukong Suh?

    http://finheaven.com/threads/ndamukong-suh.345517/
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:11 am
  • kidhawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    Do people think the Broncos should trade Von Miller because he's getting older and slowing down? How about the Falcons and Julio Jones?.


    I bet if you went to Bronco and Falcon fan sites, there would absolutely be people saying this.

    Every player, even the best players in the league get to the point in their career where their team has to determine whether their salary justifies their play, and potential for injury.

    It's pretty simple with Earl, is he worth 15M a year at age 29 with his injury history the past three years? Maybe if we had a more cap space and not a history of bad extensions I'd say yes.

    But we don't have either.


    First of all, I'm not sure where you keep coming up with the $15 million figure. Berry (which is the current benchmark) is only getting $13 million. Going $2 million per year over that is a bit high I believe. It'd be more likely to be in the under $14 million range.

    Second, it's all about structure. You give the man a signing bonus and minimal salary early and create a higher back end of the contract allowing you an out if he isn't still performing. Just because the deal averages (let's say) $14 million at first glance, doesn't mean it actually pays that over the actual term he's here.

    Basically, we can't say he's going to be overpriced until we see a deal. Honestly, there are two pieces of the defense that I don't believe we can do without and that's Earl and Bobby. They are only 1 year different in age, and Wagner has also had some injury issues lately. He's due $12 million this year and $12.5 next year before becoming a free agent. Earl is worth that easily IMO


    Although I agree in general with this. Looking at Kams deal that averages $12M, Earl is certain to want more than that. $13-15M is not out of the question (when you consider what someone else may pay).
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:17 am
  • Seymour wrote:Although I agree in general with this. Looking at Kams deal that averages $12M, Earl is certain to want more than that. $13-15M is not out of the question (when you consider what someone else may pay).


    Barry is the highest paid Free Safety in the game, so that is a pretty good barrier to break. And he's at $13 million. $2 million over that would be alot at this time. Of course once free agency starts and money starts flowing, the numbers may well rise, but we may be in talks with his agent right now, and we'd likely have no clue. It just seems to me that saying $15 million as if it's a given is a bit of a stretch.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:23 am
  • kidhawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Although I agree in general with this. Looking at Kams deal that averages $12M, Earl is certain to want more than that. $13-15M is not out of the question (when you consider what someone else may pay).


    Barry is the highest paid Free Safety in the game, so that is a pretty good barrier to break. And he's at $13 million. $2 million over that would be alot at this time. Of course once free agency starts and money starts flowing, the numbers may well rise, but we may be in talks with his agent right now, and we'd likely have no clue. It just seems to me that saying $15 million as if it's a given is a bit of a stretch.


    Agree. $15M would be an inflated price in a FA bid war, and $12-$13M is prob. closer to his market value. Earls eyes are pretty big though, so no telling what he expects. The bigger problem may actually be how many years and what guarantee.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:33 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Although I agree in general with this. Looking at Kams deal that averages $12M, Earl is certain to want more than that. $13-15M is not out of the question (when you consider what someone else may pay).


    Barry is the highest paid Free Safety in the game, so that is a pretty good barrier to break. And he's at $13 million. $2 million over that would be alot at this time. Of course once free agency starts and money starts flowing, the numbers may well rise, but we may be in talks with his agent right now, and we'd likely have no clue. It just seems to me that saying $15 million as if it's a given is a bit of a stretch.


    Agree. $15M would be an inflated price in a FA bid war, and $12-$13M is prob. closer to his market value. Earls eyes are pretty big though, so no telling what he expects. The bigger problem may actually be how many years and what guarantee.


    I agree. I think anything higher than Barry will get the deal done, depending on structure and guarantees. That will be the part that will make or break the deal for both sides. Hopefully we get it done, because replacing both Safeties is not something I look forward to trying to do in the same off season.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:42 am
  • kidhawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Although I agree in general with this. Looking at Kams deal that averages $12M, Earl is certain to want more than that. $13-15M is not out of the question (when you consider what someone else may pay).


    Barry is the highest paid Free Safety in the game, so that is a pretty good barrier to break. And he's at $13 million. $2 million over that would be alot at this time. Of course once free agency starts and money starts flowing, the numbers may well rise, but we may be in talks with his agent right now, and we'd likely have no clue. It just seems to me that saying $15 million as if it's a given is a bit of a stretch.


    Agree. $15M would be an inflated price in a FA bid war, and $12-$13M is prob. closer to his market value. Earls eyes are pretty big though, so no telling what he expects. The bigger problem may actually be how many years and what guarantee.


    I agree. I think anything higher than Barry will get the deal done, depending on structure and guarantees. That will be the part that will make or break the deal for both sides. Hopefully we get it done, because replacing both Safeties is not something I look forward to trying to do in the same off season.


    Ya, it could come down to choosing between Earl and Sherm though I think. I doubt we keep both. Sherm having the other foot operated on isn't helping him and his $13M so I'd lean toward Earl also, but that entirely depends on how long. Tough call either way though. Sherm was a better trooper last year and Earl is now walking the line of playing the village idiot with his chatter and Boys love.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:53 pm
  • A-Dog wrote:
    jeremiah wrote:No one player on this defense is irreplaceable. Wagner is a great MLB, and his running mate is very good. You don't keep on top of the league by keeping the core together, you use players to the end of their rookie deals, then replace them except for the great QB. The Belichick model is the ideal. It ain't just because of Brady.


    A. Nobody saying that anybody is irreplaceable. However, to say that you can replace a 6-time all pro who just had one of his best seasons and is only 28 years old with a low-level free agent without a massive drop-off or a major re-working of the defense is silly.

    B. Neither Bobby nor KJ are on their rookie deals.

    C. Name another team in the league that has been able to replicate the Belichick model.



    Name another team? I can't think of one that has tried. Maybe the Packers, but they skimped on the O line in two different rebuilds. Pats give the OL a priority, Brady is not to be touched or roughed up.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:05 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Coug_Hawk08 wrote:Lol @ Earl saying he would not feel comfortable playing without a long term deal. Saying he’s gotta feed his family.

    Sick.


    You just try feeding a family of 3 on $47 million over 8 years!! :141847_bnono:



    I think Clayton is saying Earl may ask for and get $15-18 Mil per year..
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:07 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    Coug_Hawk08 wrote:
    ApnaHawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    You just try feeding a family of 3 on $47 million over 8 years!! :141847_bnono:


    This is so ignorant. They are the bread and butter for their family's, which often includes extended families. Their time on the field is limited and they're diminishing their quality of life and risking permanent brain damage to bring their families out of the depths of poverty.

    Not only that, one potential wrong hit and they can be paralyzed from the neck down. No amount of money can do justice to losing your life like that. So don't blame them or get upset that they want millions and loads of them.

    He has a whole life ahead of him still. Shoot he's younger then I am and he's gotta make sure that money goes a long way till after he;s gone.


    Stop acting like this is some noble thing he is doing, risking his life and brain for his extended family! Tons of people risk more and make way less, and really battle to provide for their families. Ridiculous. He plays 16 games a year and one years salary (already 10m) can comfortably support him and extended family for the rest of their lives. Players using ‘feed my family’ as a reason to hold out from work for even more money is absurd. Is a gross thing to say imo.

    :2thumbs:
    How many years you figure it would take for most of us to make what Earl does in just one year? :roll:



    200 years approximately ....
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:06 pm
  • LB Jaylon Smith straight up for ET. Do you do it?
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:28 pm
  • Again, Thomas never said anything about feeding his family. Coug either misheard him, misremembered, or just made it up.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:14 am
  • I doubt the talks are struggling with the amount ($13.5M APY is my bet), it'll be the amount guaranteed that causes issues.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:16 am
  • massari wrote:LB Jaylon Smith straight up for ET. Do you do it?

    God no...
    The guy has drop foot from nerve damage..
    You give up an OL with a pick instead.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:45 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:Again, Thomas never said anything about feeding his family. Coug either misheard him, misremembered, or just made it up.


    Ok, taking care of his family, pretty much the same point and this is semantics being argued.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:06 am
  • seahawkfreak wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:Again, Thomas never said anything about feeding his family. Coug either misheard him, misremembered, or just made it up.


    Ok, taking care of his family, pretty much the same point and this is semantics being argued.


    Don't mean to be argumentative, but I don't think it's even remotely the same thing.

    Think about it this way, someone says "They think I'm worth 10 million a year and I think I'm worth 15 million a year, ..."

    Then either branch out to:

    #1: "...I want the 15 million a year because I think I'm worth that and at the end of the day me and my family come first."

    #2: "...I want the 15 million a year because 10 million a year isn't enough for my children to be able to eat."


    #1 is an incredibly logical end to that sentence. We can dislike it or like it, but it makes sense.

    #2 is an incredibly stupid end to that sentence that is worthy of ridicule.

    Seriously, they're not even remotely the same thing, and pretending that they are (or even worse, pretending that he said #2 when he said #1) is, IMO, really unfair to him.
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Re: "Holdout" news of Earl Thomas
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:14 am
  • There's a couple social dynamics going on here;

    Yes someone who makes 10-15M a year saying "I need to take care of my family" is a little eye roll inducing. I mean, if you save your money you can take care of 5-6 generations of kids and grandkids, etc with that kind of money.

    But, we have to remember where most of the players come from, poor backgrounds where they literally are responsible for taking care of not only most of their immediate family, but extended family. So it matters how much they maximize their contracts..........it really does.

    It also sounds better than "hey I just wanna make as much as I can." Which is fine btw, I never fault a player for leveraging as much guaranteed money as he can. Their window for making money is very limited, they're dumb if they don't try to maximize that.
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